V8 Swap
 

So, I rebuilt my 1950 3100 and kept the 235 that was in it. Dual exhaust, dual carbs, offenhauser manifold, etc. While I like the "original style" I am really itching for more power.

I put in a T5 S10 tranny and a 8.8 ford rear. Heidts front crossmember and manual rack and pinion

I have decided to pull the 235 (will be for sale) and drop a 350 in there to increase the fun factor. I plan to use the original bell housing and bolt the new power plant to existing equipment.

I have the original steering column connected by double D to the rack and pinion.

I am trying to determine which headers are most accommodating for my plan.

Any recommendations appreciated

Jemez

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you can't use the 235 bellhousing, it bolts to engine differently

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I get it! Doing a full Corvette engine and drive line in mine BUT
You could always get crazy on a six.
Check out mick53 engine build on this site just for fun and genuine amazement!

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A 350 is what I'm installing, but I have installed the 'Flat Out Engineering' C4 suspension system. Keeping the stock column, but relocated the mount on the firewall to center the wheel to the driver, rather than closer to the the drivers door. More for a 2 passenger bench than a 3. That pushed the rack end of the column further away from the engine. It still restricted the space from the frame for exhaust. A 70 C10 drivers rams horn fits on drivers side being it cuts inwards towards the engine block leaving 1.5"+ space to the joint, but a straight dump passenger is what clears the starter and frame and I cannot remember what year/make rams horn that is. I'm switching it up to make it look more old/stock and trying to fit early 60's Vette ram horns to be able to mount generator style alternator to the manifold. The new Vette manifolds are also 2.5" not 2" exhaust, so don't know if it's going to work.

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you may be able to use the stock v8 bellhousing from a task force truck or one of the cars. it needs to come from a vehile that uses the bell housing as the rear engine mount. this would hold up the rear of the engine if you have kept the stock crossmember behind the engine. thenyou would need to fab up some front engine mounts that would bolt onto the front face of the engine, like the v8 task force trucks used. this is all if your heidts crossmember allows the engine to fit at that height.
here is what the task force front engine mounts look like, they bolt to the cross member at the front of the engine bay and to the front face of the engine block
https://www.classicindustries.com/product/556038.html
this is what the v8 bell housing looks like, notice the ears for the rubber mounts. they used this style up to the mid 60's trucks, 66 I think, but not sure if they are all the same
https://www.ebay.com/itm/17591013103...BoCLCYQAvD_BwE

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post up some pics of what you have for room under the hood and what you have for steering shaft configuration etc to work around. there may also be some length dimensions between the water pump and fan to work with

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If you are going to run the stock front straight axle, do not remove the frame cross member that goes under the bell housing and between the springs. Removal may cause the frame to flex in ways that you dont want.

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You need the Taskforce bellhousing and a 54 Crossmember makes things simpler although you can do a couple of mods to the 50 crosmember to get the mounts to fit.

Edited because I assumed rather than totally read the question the other night.

When I bought my 48 in 1973 it had a 194 Chevy II six and Cast iron V8 bellhousing and the stock 3 speed that jumped out of second gear. All I know about the crossmember mods is that they had done some torch and stick welder modification to it. Basically set the bellhousing with mounts on the crossmember and figure out what mods you need to make and do the changes. The job will be more tedious than hard. It wouldn't have been hard for me when I was 27 and getting the truck ready to go to the 1973 NSRA street rod Nationals in Tulsa but now at 77 sitting under the truck cutting and welding on the crossmember would be a challenge.

You should be able to make a pattern off the V8 bellhousing and mounts that you can hold up against the crossmember for a basic idea.

Use the stock clutch linkage including the fork.

Front mounts are your choice and I think that there are mounts that work with that crossmember pretty well. They shouldn't be that hard to fabricate if you are up to the fabricating. That calls for show and tell photos from the folks with the M II front ends showing and telling how they did their small block mounts or where they got them.

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fellas, he has installed a heidts cross member with a manual rack already. not trying to make anybody look dumb but it is in the first post. I do the same thing, read it but forget it by the time I have read the other posts and mulled things over in my head. lol.
jemez, any more updates or pics for us?

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Ok, I missed that. Must need new readers !!!

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I was sick with that bug that is going around is my excuse, I'll go back and edit that post but but it is still get the Task Force V8 bellhousing, modify the crossmember so the mounts will sit on it and then front mounts of choice. Plus exhaust of choice.

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Typically a short header that dumps at the rear is your best option to avoid the steering. I used these manifolds and didn't need to add an extra joint to the steering shaft.

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I'm also using similar cast manifolds in the picture. It has an indent at the down pipe that allows for the steering shaft clearance. There is the same manifold but with a tie bar between the exhaust ports that eliminates the problem of the heat shrinking the distance between the ports.

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jemez, c'mon man, chime in. we all have your truck half built already, haha
bench racers.......
a few pics would sure be nice. would love to see your project.

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Sorry guys. Have been out of pocket and am digesting options. I will have to take some pics, but if I can't use the stock bell housing and have to find task force one, I may as well get a mid 60's bell housing and go with new cross members for the motor and trans.

This is going to be a next winter project. I am currently finishing up a tremec install in my 55 210 and my brain has already transitioned to the next project. Trying to do some research so I can get parts and pieces gathered



Attachment 2332031

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nice looking truck you have there
if you just wanna use a modern bellhousing, easily available, and build modern side engine mounts, also readily available, and some type of header system, readily available, that is pretty straight forward stuff. if you get time just check out some of the other AD builds here and see how they have been put together. some use urethane "bushing" style engine mounts, some use a stock GM engine mount for a newer vehicle etc. you can buld a new cross member that supports the trans at the rear, like a more modern set up, and trim your old cross member so the engine/trans has clearance. I have recommended to some builders that they support that area with a temp cross member and then cut a section out of that old cross member and reshape it as required to make it so the drivetrain has clearance and the section can be bolted back in after the drivetrain has been removed/installed. that way the frame is still supported in the cab mount area and also remains the same dimension. exhaust can be a set of headers or a stock style exhaust manifold. since you have a new cross member from heidts you have a little more clearance where the stock steering box was but you need to consider how the steering shaft will clear the engine mounts and the exhaust parts. having a manual rack makes it easier for all this.
anyway, good luck with the 210. you are lucky enough to have a couple of great old vehicles.

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I did make a crossmember to support the T5 and would have to see if that works, or if I would need a better set up. The frame is boxed in from the front crossmember to the firewall so side mounts built to the frame would be a preferred method than an under motor crossmember Appreciate the advice

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on a task force frame I did the whole frame with boxing, front to rear. for a support for the trans cross member i used a length of 3/16 flat bar welded to the frame rail and the square tube cross member has a matching flat bar flange on the ends that allowed it so merely sit on the frame flat bar on each side. I left it long so that if the trans changed and needed a different spot for the cross member to fit it had lots of room. the square tube cross member was simply bent so it had a low spot under the trans and it had a piece of formed sheet metal welded on that allowed the trans mount to fit on top and be accessible to allow the auto trans oil pan removal. it was actually built a bit low so the trans mount could be shimmed up if needed to get the driveline angle dialed in. this allowed exhaust pipes etc to be run without interference. for engine mounts I used camaro clamshell style mounts bolted to the engine and made some frame mounts that bolted to the frame and also to the engine mount through bolt. that way the frame pieces could be unbolted completely for easy engine install and removal and also maintenance situations.

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Meaning that you have already removed the crossmember under the bellhousing or is it there and do you intend to use it? This goes back to the "did I miss a point somewhere and he did something different" thing.

Removing that crossmember without boxing and or reinforcing the frame causes the weight of the cab to push down on the brackets that hold the cab up to the point that the they twist the rails and the cab sags, Major cauise of stock frame hood doesn't fit on trucks that were built several years ago.

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Here's how I built the frame brackets for the motor mounts Used mid 60's Chev engine mounts. Made a dropped transmission mount out of 1 1/2 .250 wall tubing with a bolt in center section for easy transmission removed.

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nice truck jemez and nice frame grey beard

that frame, have you considered the issue mr48 raised of the twisting affect of the cab mounts?
The original cross member under bellhousing was substantial and lined up fairly close to cab mounts.

I added a 2nd square tube crossmember that drops under the bellhousing and picks up the same bolts as hold the cab mounts to frame.

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That one is boxed back far enough that if he puts the brackets back on it shouldn't be an issue but he might want to add a support pad the right thickness on top of the rail that catches the weight while the original bolts hold it in place.

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More to think about. Maybe the universal mount crossmember would provide more frame stability

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once you have your drivetrain and exhaust in place, thinking of a cross member while you do this, you could easily fab up a removeable cross member kinda like how the original cross member looked like, that could be bolted in where the old cross member rivets were.

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as a heavy duty mechanic I can tell you the removeable cross member idea is common. it keeps the frame rails width apart dimensionally correct. sometimes I would cut a length of 2x4 to use as a wedge to get the frame rails spread apart a bit to remove/repace the cross member and get the bolt holes lined up. anyway, just saying don't write off the idea but also think about the cab weight tending to spring the frame rails when the support from the original cross member is gone.

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I can relate, this is basically what I am doing with my '58 Apache 38. Only my focus is the truck still remaining a workhorse. Not speed, per se, but power. However, I would like to be able to keep up with traffic as my current, pedal-to-the-metal, top speed is a blinding 50 MPH.

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I'm just going to say take a long look at Gray Beards mounts and figure out how to fab your own or (as much as I hate to use the S word) Speedway sells a
set that can be trimmed to fit or the image can start the "Hey I can fab those with that stuff in the _____ ' process.

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here's another idea for the trans mount. After I got my engine mounts figured out and drive line angle set, I bolted the trans mount to the bottom of the trans. Then I used some 3/16" plate to mount to the frame rail and hang down to the trans cross member. then bolted the plates to the frame and crossmember. That has worked well for many years and gives enough clearance for my under cab brake booster. It's a bit low but so far no scraping on the pavement

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check out welders series for all kinds of misc brackets, urethane goodies, tubing, threaded joints etc. they are Canadian so the USD goes further and they ship quickly.
still, nothing wrong with using a stock mount bolted to the engine and then build a connector from there to the frame. make it unbolt from the frame to really quickly open up an area for getting the engine and trans in and out as a unit without hanging up on stuff. for the trans mount, get the engine where you want it and the truck sitting on stands at the same angle it would be if it was sitting on the ground. then install the trans mount you have picked out and bolt a plate up to that which will be your new plate attached to the new cross member. then design a cross member that will attach to the frame and also fit up to the plate mentioned above. square tube works pretty well but round DOM tubing works pretty well and can be bent by the local muffler shop likely. keep in mind that there will also be exhaust to run past the whole system there and also possibly a brake booster if you go witn a frame mounted booster some day. even that though, can be mounted wherever you decide and then it just becomes a linkage issue with how you make it work.
you got this man.

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if you want a stiffly mounted engine that will possibly make everything in the truck vibrate then go with a pretty solid mount. if you want a pretty vibration free experience then go with more of a stock engine mount and build frame mounts to connect the dots from the engine mounts to the frame.

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one other thing to consider, and don't get me wrong here I am not trying to call anybody else's stuff down, is that without a cross member where the old stock trans cross member was, the engine becomes the link from one side rail to the other in a build like greybeard's that has no original trans cross member but instead has a new cross member quite a way back on the frame. this can be hard on engine mounts as they take the normal engine mount load as well as some frame flex load because the frame is less stiff in that area. it can also be hard on the cab because the frame flexes with the load of the cab mounted on a "lever" on the outside of the frame rail, which naturally wants to twist the frame. possibly greybeards frame is not a current pic or one before the finished product or maybe there have not been problems with his system. just theorizing here so you van get it right and have no issues later.

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here is an example of the welders series motor mount
https://welderseries.com/store/Rubbe...v-PR-p51163355

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and an example of the clamshell style that bolts to the engine and you fab the frame connector to fit up to it. possibly less vibration from this unit with a stock type motor mount inside the clamshell.
https://www.hawksmotorsports.com/gm-...dually-hooker/

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or this stock replacement part. hey, they worked for GM pretty well. why not?
https://www.speedparts.com.au/~975041

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The what you called a clamshell was a safety thing as it kept the engine from rising off a broken motor mount. Some of us older guys did experience a broken motor mount that let the left side of the engine lift and cause the throttle rods to stick wide open. That called for a fast reach for the key to shut it off. I had that happen on the first 62 Impala I had in the early 70's.

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yep, played havoc with wiring, headers, shifters etc. I had a guy who said he had 2 problems he wanted fixed. one was a clunk when he shifted or hit the gas etc. the other was the trans slipped out of gear when he hit the gas hard. the motor mounts were toast,

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the nice thing about the tubular urethane bushing style mounts is that unless a mount breaks off the frame or engine or a bolt breaks in the mount, the system will keep the engine roughly in place even if the urethane disintegrates. they are relatively compact too so if working in a tight space with steering shafts and exhaust to fit in the area too they can be a good choice. they don't really have a lot of vibration absorption though, in my opinion. some will likely disagree but thats fine.

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A lot of good comments posted regarding the engine/transmission mount designs. The mounting system I built for my 54 was patterned off what I built for my 36 Chevy pickup which has 80,000 + miles on it now and other than one LH rubber motor mount that delaminated I haven't had any other problem. The urethane mounts fixed problem. I had a 66 Chevy II with a 327 4 speed that destroyed the LH motor mount until GM came out with a steel cable that went from the frame to the LH exhaust manifold to limit the engine roll. My transmission crossmember end plates are made of T1 steel angle with the 1 ½” .250 wall tubing welded to both the vertical and horizontal parts of the end plates and bolted to the frame side member and the lower flange. I’m not able measure how far it is behind front cab mount currently, but here’s a couple of pictures. The 36 cab mounts are bolted through the frame flange and the 54 mount brackets extend away from the frame but the 54 floor structure is much stronger than the 36.

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Opps no pictures hope this works !!