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-   -   Restoring Rusty (https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=645440)

hatzie 05-31-2021 03:20 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
That hose says SAE J30R7. That's just plain old fashioned carburetor fuel hose. Same as GM and others used for carbureted fuel systems through the end of the age of the carburetor. Max running pressure is 50 PSI, intermittent operating pressure is 75 PSI for Continental hose but not all hose meets this spec, burst pressure is 250 PSI. That's for NEW hose.
The SAE has actually downrated J30R7 to use as EVAP hose but it's still just fine for lower pressure non-fuel-injected vehicles. I use it on my ATV, Motorcycle, riding mowers, and other small engines that don't use Vinyl hose.

You want an operating envelope cushion to deal with aging. The actual operating pressure envelope can be reduced quite a lot by age especially in higher temperature environments with higher ozone levels like West Coast cities. If your operating pressures are right on the ragged edge of maximum you won't get much life out of it.

SAE J30R9 hose is the stuff you want for TBI and TPI fuel systems. It's rated for higher operating and burst pressures and is less vapor permeable than the old J30R7 hose. It's what GM originally used on the TBI and TPI fuel injection systems before they went to Vinyl fuel lines in the mid 90's.
My first choice in clamps are constant tension spring band clamps that everyone seems to hate. They maintain constant tension over a wide temp range without over tensioning and smashing plastic hose barbs or crushing the hose itself and loosening up like worm clamps seem to do. German Fuel Injection clamps are a close second choice.

If you're an SAE member this is the link to the J30 fuel hose standards. It's some pretty dry reading.
https://www.sae.org/standards/content/j30_199806/

hatzie 05-31-2021 03:33 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
I believe that AC Delco filter uses a special GM Fuel line fittings. The end is straight with a ring crimped into the tube that the ferrule rests against with a shoulder for the O-ring.

This guy shows how to make GM Fuel Line crimps and Jiffy Tite transmission & oil cooler line crimps.

Gregski 05-31-2021 03:37 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by hatzie (Post 8927033)
That hose says SAE J30R7. That's just plain old fashioned carburetor fuel hose. Same as GM and others used for carbureted fuel systems through the end of the age of the carburetor. Max running pressure is 50 PSI, intermittent operating pressure is 75 PSI for Continental hose but not all hose meets this spec, burst pressure is 250 PSI. That's for NEW hose.
The SAE has actually downrated J30R7 to use as EVAP hose but it's still just fine for lower pressure non-fuel-injected vehicles. I use it on my ATV, Motorcycle, riding mowers, and other small engines that don't use Vinyl hose.

You want an operating envelope cushion to deal with aging. The actual operating pressure envelope can be reduced quite a lot by age especially in higher temperature environments with higher ozone levels like West Coast cities. If your operating pressures are right on the ragged edge of maximum you won't get much life out of it.

SAE J30R9 hose is the stuff you want for TBI and TPI fuel systems. It's rated for higher operating and burst pressures and is less vapor permeable than the old J30R7 hose. It's what GM originally used on the TBI and TPI fuel injection systems before they went to Vinyl fuel lines in the mid 90's.
My first choice in clamps are constant tension spring band clamps that everyone seems to hate. They maintain constant tension over a wide temp range without over tensioning and smashing plastic hose barbs or crushing the hose itself and loosening up like worm clamps seem to do. German Fuel Injection clamps are a close second choice.

If you're an SAE member this is the link to the J30 fuel hose standards. It's some pretty dry reading.
https://www.sae.org/standards/content/j30_199806/

Thanks, I am actually running this 30R14T2 on the high pressure side I believe it's rated for 225PSI

Gregski 05-31-2021 03:53 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
3 Attachment(s)
You all won't believe this, so I button everything up and turn the key to prime the fuel pump and I hear a gush of fuel hit the pavement, I'm like Noooo can't be

Yup, a fourth line has failed on me, this time the high pressure hose that runs from the fuel tank to the fuel filter, and I did not touch this line!!!

It is so UNBELIEVABLE I made a video for it, so avoid this AMAZON steel braided hose at all costs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwd68TfculU

hatzie 05-31-2021 04:17 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
SAE J30R14 is the new J30R7. It's an updated low pressure fuel hose spec with the lower vapor permeability of J30R9 and better ethanol breakdown resistance in the spec with the lower operating and burst pressures of the J30R7 hose. Most manufacturers already met or exceeded the ethanol resistance spec in their J30R7 offerings but not the vapor permeability ratings.

The stuff you want on the pressure side is still SAE J30R9.

Gates used to have a comparison tool but I can't find it.

Gregski 05-31-2021 04:22 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hatzie (Post 8927052)
SAE J30R14 is the new J30R7. It's an updated low pressure fuel hose spec with the lower vapor permeability of J30R9 and better ethanol breakdown resistance in the spec with the lower operating and burst pressures of the J30R7 hose. Most manufacturers already met or exceeded the ethanol resistance spec in their J30R7 offerings but not the vapor permeability ratings.

The stuff you want on the pressure side is still SAE J30R9.

Gates used to have a comparison tool but I can't find it.

Are you serious?

rgunlock 05-31-2021 04:35 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
That is definitely unbelievable! Hate to say it, but if you haven't already I'd replace every last bit of that braided hose on the truck. That could have had a VERY bad ending!

hatzie 05-31-2021 04:36 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Sure am.
https://www.underhoodservice.com/cor...-installation/
J30 is the SAE fuel line standard with R numbers for specific types.
  • R7 is emissions hose. Used to be low pressure fuel hose but high vapor permeability likely makes it illegal in California for fuel hose.
  • R9 is high pressure low permeability Fuel Injection hose
  • R10 is high pressure in tank fuel hose. Submersible fuel line for in tank fuel pumps. Don't use this stuff out of the tank as the jacket isn't compounded for operation in air.
  • R14 is low pressure low permeability fuel hose. Likely released to deal with tightened air quality standards.

Ignore the comment in that article about using J30R9 fuel hose for oil. J30R9 doesn't have the temperature rating for an oil or transmission cooler. It might work for cold oil but not for an oil or transmission cooler at operating temp. SAE J1019 hose is actually designed for that job.

Gregski 05-31-2021 04:46 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hatzie (Post 8927062)
Sure am.
https://www.underhoodservice.com/cor...-installation/
J30 is the SAE fuel line standard with R numbers for specific types.
  • R7 is emissions hose. Used to be low pressure fuel hose but high vapor permeability likely makes it illegal in California for fuel hose.
  • R9 is high pressure low permeability Fuel Injection hose
  • R10 is high pressure in tank fuel hose. Submersible fuel line for in tank fuel pumps. Don't use this stuff out of the tank as the jacket isn't compounded for operation in air.
  • R14 is low pressure low permeability fuel hose. Likely released to deal with tightened air quality standards.

I hear you brother, I just can't find any J30R9 locally they all point at the R14 just like the dude at the NAPA counter sold me and I told him what I was doing and I wanted the high pressure stuff

hatzie 05-31-2021 04:55 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Yeah. That's one of the reasons I educate myself before getting stuff from the parts guys.
They mean well but they'll also offer you fuel hose for transmission coolers and regular fuel hose for in tank fuel pumps.

You might want to get the spec sheet for the exact hose you have. Manufacturers can and often do exceed minimum specs.

Gregski 06-01-2021 10:18 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
so I wrote to the seller on Amazon since I bought three hoses from them over the last two years, and I sent them pics of my hose failures and the link to this video, I was not rude, I was honestly concerned for other peoples safety, and they kindly replied and promised a full refund

Rich84 06-02-2021 11:23 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
"Hope nobody hurts"..

I used junkyard factory hard lines with a small piece of rubber at the sender with double FI clamps.

hatzie 06-02-2021 02:37 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
If you bead the end of the tube you don't need to double clamp it.
The ATS Parker Beading Tools are darn nice but the price is pretty dear. Here they are FWIW
I have seen similar bead forming tools made from modified pipe cutters. Depends on your tooling availability and skill set.

The Earls tube beading tools work fine for a few tubes.

SCOTI 06-02-2021 06:20 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hatzie (Post 8927960)
If you bead the end of the tube you don't need to double clamp it.
The ATS Parker Beading Tools are darn nice but the price is pretty dear. Here they are FWIW
I have seen similar bead forming tools made from modified pipe cutters. Depends on your tooling availability and skill set.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxZTe2Rs-X8

The Earls tube beading tools work fine for a few tubes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9hTleI8a9I

Many of us use steel tubing for various lines. Not sure if that EZ Beader does just aluminum or if it can do steel as well.

For the part-time/shade-tree builders, brass compression fittings also work as an easy way to get it done on steel tubing w/o a bead forming tool. Put a ferrule + the male/female portions of a brass fitting together on the tube. Tighten the male/female portions to locate & 'crimp' the ferrule in place. Loosen the male/female portions. Then grind/cut the female portion off as needed using an angle grinder.

The crimped ferrule is left on the tube & the hose can be forced over it w/a single worm gear clamp to keep it firmly in place.

mongocanfly 06-02-2021 07:38 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
dang...that could have been disastrous

daddyjeep 06-03-2021 08:34 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
I always just do a bubble flare with a normal cheap flaring tool. I even did a video on it a few weeks ago when I made new trans lines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASeGM7FWQng

hatzie 06-03-2021 08:42 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SCOTI (Post 8928034)
Many of us use steel tubing for various lines. Not sure if that EZ Beader does just aluminum or if it can do steel as well.

For the part-time/shade-tree builders, brass compression fittings also work as an easy way to get it done on steel tubing w/o a bead forming tool. Put a ferrule + the male/female portions of a brass fitting together on the tube. Tighten the male/female portions to locate & 'crimp' the ferrule in place. Loosen the male/female portions. Then grind/cut the female portion off as needed using an angle grinder.

The crimped ferrule is left on the tube & the hose can be forced over it w/a single worm gear clamp to keep it firmly in place.

I would think they could do thin wall Ni-Copp and steel brake and fuel line. Just take smaller bites at a time and lube it.

Interesting idea using ferrules as a small tube bead.
I stay far away from worm clamps on hoses smaller than 1". I use constant tension spring clamps and fuel injection clamps for smaller hoses.
I'm moving away from worm clamps to spring clamps on larger stuff like radiator hoses at this point. Toyota has been using them for a couple decades and they don't leak. I hate the locations the thoughtless line workers tend to put the ears at the factory, and I'm not the only one that does, but they can be moved to a location that's accessible so they work for fine the rest of the life of the vehicle.

SCOTI 06-03-2021 09:09 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hatzie (Post 8928234)
I would think they could do thin wall Ni-Copp and steel brake and fuel line. Just take smaller bites at a time and lube it.

Interesting idea using ferrules as a small tube bead.
I stay far away from worm clamps on hoses smaller than 1". I use constant tension spring clamps and fuel injection clamps for smaller hoses.
I'm moving away from worm clamps to spring clamps on larger stuff like radiator hoses at this point. Toyota has been using them for a couple decades and they don't leak. I hate the locations the thoughtless line workers tend to put the ears at the factory, and I'm not the only one that does, but they can be moved to a location that's accessible so they work for fine the rest of the life of the vehicle.

Much agreed on the worm clamp avoidance when/where possible & I prefer the use of the FI style clamps. I haven't found a good local source for them in a high quality material & I have readily available access to SS worm gear hardware so it's more of a default thing.

Gregski 06-06-2021 11:51 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
3 Attachment(s)
got sum fuel filter adapter that don't suck! so that I don't have to use 9 yards of thread tape to get those black ones above to stop leaking

hatzie 06-07-2021 07:56 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 8929503)
got sum fuel filter adapter that don't suck! so that I don't have to use 9 yards of thread tape to get those black ones above to stop leaking

Knowing what the proper fuel line ends should look like helps a great deal.
Russell makes some good hot rod stuff. I've used their drilled and 1/8NPT threaded banjo bolts to add an oil pressure gauge to my ATV.

Gregski 06-08-2021 11:01 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
2 Attachment(s)
Gentlemen does this "brand new" Corvette Servo look brand new to you all, ladies as well

by the way the new large C clip was so rusted I ended up re using my old one (not shown in pics)

Gregski 06-08-2021 11:04 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
2 Attachment(s)
so got the old servo out and sure enuff the piston was loose as a goose and the "new" one seems a little bit better

mandatory stare and compare:

Gregski 06-08-2021 11:07 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
So Good News / Bad News

the Good News is my trans shifts better now

the Bad News is the stupid clunk sound is still there

LT7A 06-09-2021 09:56 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 8930400)
Gentlemen does this "brand new" Corvette Servo look brand new to you all, ladies as well

by the way the new large C clip was so rusted I ended up re using my old one (not shown in pics)

I don't know much about servos, but that red yo-yo looks like an antique.

Gregski 06-09-2021 10:01 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LT7A (Post 8930517)
I don't know much about servos, but that red yo-yo looks like an antique.

yeah, I wrote to the company that sold me that on Amazon, I like to do that as a courtesy before leaving negative feedback, and they wrote back and said yes it is new and that they were sorry about the poor quality and that they will talk to their "REBUILD" tech to have him do a better job

EXCUSE ME? rebuilt is not brand new, I did not want a rebuilt part! wth

blazer2007 06-09-2021 09:15 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Why do you beat yourself up by ordering from Amazon. I like my parts from a tranny shop or engine shop. I,m sure you have your reason,s but I got tired of that game. Getting old so don,t like to do it more than once but that doesn,t work sometimes either .

LT7A 06-09-2021 09:50 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 8930520)
yeah, I wrote to the company that sold me that on Amazon, I like to do that as a courtesy before leaving negative feedback, and they wrote back and said yes it is new and that they were sorry about the poor quality and that they will talk to their "REBUILD" tech to have him do a better job

EXCUSE ME? rebuilt is not brand new, I did not want a rebuilt part! wth

Wow. A response like that basically writes the review for you. And for the post above, while I understand it, there are many legitimate companies that choose to use Amazon or ebay as their vehicle for online sales. Unfortunately, sometimes it's hard to tell them from people like this outfit until you get the part. Good luck man.

Gregski 07-20-2021 02:06 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
2 Attachment(s)
on this episode of "That's Cool, But It Still Aint Gonna Work" we try to solve a flat tire (but only on the bottom) with Windex

Gregski 07-20-2021 02:11 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
so the truck sat in the garage for 2 or 3 weeks while I slayed it in my '54 and painted our perfectly fine oak kitchen cabinets... white! [pronounced: no time to work on the truck(s)]

and the texter side front tire went pretty much all the way flat... on the bottom

I took it off rolled it around and usually I can spot a nail or a screw somewheres in the tread section right quick, but nothing this time, checked the valve and it was tight

so after coating it in Windex and no bubbles, I took it to our vegan environmentally friendly fluid dynamics station, and still couldn't see any bubbles, what gives?

is my Ex messing with me again !!! ha ha

swissarmychainsaw 07-20-2021 02:35 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 8947586)
so the truck sat in the garage for 2 or 3 weeks
bubbles, what gives?

Valve stem?

Gregski 07-20-2021 02:39 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by swissarmychainsaw (Post 8947596)
Valve stem?

yup thought that as well, but it was tight and no bubbles from it

SCOTI 07-20-2021 07:17 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 8947599)
yup thought that as well, but it was tight and no bubbles from it

Cap on or off when verified?

I've had more than one that when the cap was tightened all the way tight, it would inexplicably slightly compress the stem allowing air to purge. Different caps solved the issue. If you can't determine anything else, it might be worth dbl checking.

Gregski 08-26-2021 05:22 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hatzie (Post 8722670)
I'd ask TKCR about it and read her bench seat thread.
This is post 143 of that thread.
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...&postcount=143
The second seat in that bunch would go well with your green interior.

Well I just sent her a message to see what she's got, I pretty much given up on having it re upholstered locally

Gregski 08-26-2021 05:27 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
I think the Ol' Lady wants me to wear gloves when I wrench, she went out and got me all of these

TKCR 08-26-2021 06:40 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
5 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 8924611)
so a couple months back I took this bench seat to an upholsterer, and they had it for six weeks and did not do a darn thing all because they could not get one bolt out to separate the back rest from the bottom

Thought Id jump in here and check out the situation with your seat, since you sent me a PM. I can do you up a fully restored seat, and it would be a tilting seat. I see that seat is a non tilt. Im going to go back further to see what color your interior is, or are wanting to got to. But you asked about Black. But here are some pictures of all the 73-80 seats I have done.

Gregski 08-26-2021 07:15 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TKCR (Post 8963167)
Thought Id jump in here and check out the situation with your seat, since you sent me a PM. I can do you up a fully restored seat, and it would be a tilting seat. I see that seat is a non tilt. Im going to go back further to see what color your interior is, or are wanting to got to. But you asked about Black. But here are some pictures of all the 73-80 seats I have done.

thank you for the get back, I am not sure what a tilting seat is, but when I had my original bench seat in the truck before i took it out it did lean or fold forward so that you could put junk behind it

my interior is all black, and I am looking for an all black vinyl cover I do not want any velour or cloth

the dilema is such that I am in Kalifornia and you are in Ohio so the shipping cost would ruin everything if you were to do my seat

TKCR 08-26-2021 07:38 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
5 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 8963184)
thank you for the get back, I am not sure what a tilting seat is, but when I had my original bench seat in the truck before i took it out it did lean or fold forward so that you could put junk behind it

my interior is all black, and I am looking for an all black vinyl cover I do not want any velour or cloth

the dilema is such that I am in Kalifornia and you are in Ohio so the shipping cost would ruin everything if you were to do my seat

The seat that you showed, the one you took to the shop and they could not get the screws out. That is a non tilt seat, it’s a fixed seat. There’s no way of it tilting forward. All the seats I showed in the post above, are tilting seats. The seat back tilts forward. Shipping/handling is $350 to ship anywhere in the US.
I can do an all Black Vinyl. They are fully restored. That’s the frame, tracks and all the hardware. I would highly doubt that upholstery shop would have touched your frame or tracks. They would have charged you $600-$650 to install a cover, and that’s it. I also replace any broken springs. I don’t just stick a block of foam in there, like I have seen done so many times.

Gregski 08-26-2021 08:21 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TKCR (Post 8963195)
The seat that you showed, the one you took to the shop and they could not get the screws out. That is a non tilt seat, it’s a fixed seat. There’s no way of it tilting forward.

I think you are right, now that I think about it, I think it just slid forward and back maybe 6"

are you saying $350 for a seat or just for shipping, sorry don't mean to be difficult that just sounds amazeballz, and yes shops quoted me $500/$600 for just a vinyl cover but they sow/make it not one that I would buy first

Gregski 08-26-2021 08:23 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
4 Attachment(s)
so off to the Shed Of Stuff... no [back] rest for the wicked! ha ha

Gregski 08-26-2021 08:26 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
4 Attachment(s)
in order to disassemble the backrest first we must remove the 127 hog rings, carefully making sure each one is accounted for


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