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-   -   Restoring Rusty (https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=645440)

Gregski 06-10-2016 01:30 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
4 Attachment(s)
so just to remind everyone I am still trying to track down / eliminate that mystery engine ticking sound, and trying Marvely Mystery Oil additive (did not fix a thing) so I ordered a brand new GM Chevrolet Performance fuel pump as some suggested it may be my old fuel pump making that sound

Part Number: 12355612

Gregski 06-10-2016 01:36 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
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this is my cheapie generic no name brand old one

not sure this looks like normal wear on the shaft lever thingie, we shall see

Gregski 06-10-2016 01:40 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
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the new fuel pump is very well made (in the USA), here I have it installed for a trial fit

as you can see with the outlet at 9 PM it goes right into the motor mount, the inlet at 3 PM is fine, but they move together, so looks like will have to re clock it (this is very similar to re clocking and alternator) it just means moving the connectors around

it also sits way too close to the passenger side motor mount, I think it touches

Gregski 06-10-2016 01:44 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
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re clocking this fuel pump is pretty easy, you just have to undo the 10 screws and rotate the base over which ever way you need it, I am going to try an Inlet at 7 PM and Outlet at 1 PM, type a setup, since the inlet and outlet pivot together your choices are somewhat limited, for instance 6 pm works for the Inlet but that puts the Outlet at noon and straight into the base of the block, not gonna work

Gregski 06-10-2016 01:49 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
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and here's a mandatory side by side comparison

old fuel pump vs new fuel pump, notice how the cheap one on the left (1/5th the cost) comes with both an inlet connector, where as the more expensive one does not, LOL

Gregski 06-10-2016 01:53 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
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so I had to go out and buy a bunch of different fittings, one of these ought to work

I am running 3/8th from the fuel tank to the fuel pump and 5/16 from the fuel pump to the carb

you really wanna check these fittings in the store as some folks put the wrong ones in the boxes (ask me how I know, lol) very frustrating late at night as you're trying to slip that hard 5/16 fuel injection line over the 3/8th barb that should have been 5/16th, ha ha

Gregski 06-10-2016 01:59 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
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so lets try this setup, a 90* elbow in and a straight shooter out

Gregski 06-10-2016 02:04 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
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man this just aint gonna work CLEARANCE, CLEARANCE, CLEARANCE problems

even after I shoved a philips screw driver in the 90* inlet to bend it some more it still hits the motor mount support bracket

and underneath the motor mount hits/rubs against the fuel pump

man I really don't want to start grinding on this beautiful brand new fuel pump to get it to fit, it's just too big, the diameter or circumfrence however you look at it

wonderin' if anyone on this forum is actually runnin' this GM fuel pump on their trucks?

Gregski 06-10-2016 02:28 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
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picked up this handy fuel delivery system at the Dollar store, part number K&M 1, (get it, Katchup & Mustard 1) I crack myself up

I use the red one for gasoline it works great when you need to fill up the carburetor bowls through the vent tubes, top tip (the yellow one is for mustard, duh, JK)

hatzie 06-10-2016 05:35 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
One of the annoying things about the GM performance rebuildable mechanical pumps is the inlet and outlet are 180 apart and it's difficult to get them clocked so they don't interfere with something.
GM 12355613, the one you have, is 9PSI at 115GPH with 1/2NPT fittings.
GM 6415325 is 7PSI 30GPH with a slightly smaller diameter body with 1/4NPT fittings.

Holley makes a rebuildable mechanical smallblock fuel pump that allows you to clock the in and out fittings independently from eachother for about the same price point as the 12355613 GM Performance pump.
Holley 12-327-11 is 6.5-8PSI and 110GPH with 3/8NPT fittings

Gregski 06-10-2016 09:12 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hatzie (Post 7620557)
One of the annoying things about the GM performance rebuildable mechanical pumps is the inlet and outlet are 180 apart and it's difficult to get them clocked so they don't interfere with something.
GM 12355613, the one you have, is 9PSI at 115GPH with 1/2NPT fittings.
GM 6415325 is 7PSI 30GPH with a slightly smaller diameter body with 1/4NPT fittings.

Holley makes a rebuildable mechanical smallblock fuel pump that allows you to clock the in and out fittings independently from eachother for about the same price point as the 12355613 GM Performance pump.
Holley 12-327-11 is 6.5-8PSI and 110GPH with 3/8NPT fittings

Hatzie, what the hewk would I do without you, the house next to me is going up for rent, I'll PM you the address, LOL together we would be Damage Inc, ha ha

79sierra 06-10-2016 09:24 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 7620525)
man this just aint gonna work CLEARANCE, CLEARANCE, CLEARANCE problems

even after I shoved a philips screw driver in the 90* inlet to bend it some more it still hits the motor mount support bracket

and underneath the motor mount hits/rubs against the fuel pump

man I really don't want to start grinding on this beautiful brand new fuel pump to get it to fit, it's just too big, the diameter or circumfrence however you look at it

wonderin' if anyone on this forum is actually runnin' this GM fuel pump on their trucks?

I had bought an Edelbrock pump which looks like yours and did not use it, I just couldn't get it fit right.

Jake Wade 06-10-2016 05:45 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
A regular ole AC Delco 40987 is all that's needed for your application.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ado-40987

Gregski 06-10-2016 11:53 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake Wade (Post 7621112)
A regular ole AC Delco 40987 is all that's needed for your application.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ado-40987

Jake, having gone through this exercise I could not agree more, and would have put that one on if any of the local parts houses had one in stock, but they don't.

Gregski 06-11-2016 12:02 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
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so Mr. Money Bagz over here decided to drop $85 bucks on yet another "Performance" fuel pump (and I use that term loosely, as any company that has to tell you their part is a "Performance" part three times on the front of the box alone, is most likely not selling you an [ahem] Performance part

so here is the Holley part number 12-834 fuel pump Made in Korea (well, than it's gotta be good right?!) ha ha - didn't notice that in the store when I bought it, I was blinded by the shinnyness of this darn thing


I believe the line on the back of the box should read:
"Look Out for These Other Holley Performance Products" man I am on a roll today

Valarius_Starchaser 06-11-2016 12:04 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
once when torquing a holley fuel pump on (last fall) the housing cracked..... complete garbage that thing was hope you have better luck

Gregski 06-11-2016 12:06 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Valarius_Starchaser (Post 7621430)
once when torquing a holley fuel pump on (last fall) the housing cracked..... complete garbage that thing was hope you have better luck

OMG - Sooooo True it feels like something I picked up at the Dollar store, feels so cheap bro, I am so glad someone else said it

Gregski 06-11-2016 12:09 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
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Fuel Pumps ~ collect them all!!!

or as I like to call 'em: Moe, Larry, and Curly

... am I dating myself here people?

Valarius_Starchaser 06-11-2016 12:14 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 7621434)
... am I dating myself here people?

No Greg your not........... your married to yourself with a nice roommate :lol:

Gregski 06-11-2016 12:16 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
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and once again the [ahem] Performance part does not come with any inlet or outlet fittings, and naturally the Holley uses a different size (1/4 inch pipe thread rather than the 3/8ths like the GM one did)

not the inlet and outlet ports are not 180* opposite each other
like on the GM fuel pump, which is an application limiting feature, in other words an Epic Fail, I'm looking at you GM

not sure if there is any Top Gear fans here (yes the UK version not the American rubish) well anyway one time they were talking about a Porsche not sure which model, (or a Volkswagen as Jeremy puts it, ha ha) and they said the base model with run you $60K and comes with AC (or climate control as they call it), Blue Tooth, and a radio, where as the "Sports" model, aka the performance one costs $80 (so $20K more) and has no AC, no Blue Tooth, and no radio... ha ha, so you pay more to get less, loved that episode!!!

Gregski 06-11-2016 12:17 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by valarius_starchaser (Post 7621437)
no greg your not........... Your married to yourself with a nice roommate :lol:

lol

Gregski 06-11-2016 12:19 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
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and here is the Holley 12-834 fuel pump installed

PROs: it fits

CONs: it's cheap, its too shinny, it feels flimzy, its expensive

I would not recommend this product to anyone

Gregski 06-11-2016 12:57 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
Fuel Pump Replacement Top Tip (F.P.R.T.T.)

use the magnet on a stick to slide the fuel pump push rod back up, or at least get that oily sucker up high enuff to get your finger under it (I know guys recommend using a longer bolt in that side hole to hold it up, but what if you aint got the clearance to get to that bolt, or you forgot and it dropped already, etc.)

use the hacksaw blade to hold it up while you slide the new fuel pump lever under it, the blade is thin enuff and bendy enuff to git the job done

hugs

hatzie 06-11-2016 06:38 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 7621441)
and here is the Holley 12-834 fuel pump installed

PROs: it fits

CONs: it's cheap, its too shinny, it feels flimzy, its expensive

I would not recommend this product to anyone

There's no reason to make it cheap and flimsy. There are plenty of products our of Korea, Taiwan, and even mainland China that are not. They specified cheap and flimsy or didn't refuse shipment when their supplier screwed them.
Looks like the short sighted pencil pushing bean counters are working on murdering Holley the same way they murdered Carter.
"Here's to the pencil pushers... may they all get lead poisoning."--Eddie Valiant

Gregski 06-11-2016 09:35 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
So did replacing the fuel pump get rid of the engine ticking sound?

NO

Gregski 06-11-2016 09:41 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
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I read on these forums that some guys have tried MARVEL Mystery Oil additive and that eliminated their ticking sounds, so The Greg tried it, but to no surprise this snake oil also let him down, and the ticking sound remained

Gregski 06-11-2016 09:43 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
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some forum members suggested that the noise could be coming from the Primitive Crancase Ventilation valve, PCV, so I removed it temporarily and the ticking sound remained, so that can't be it

Gregski 06-11-2016 09:53 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
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The Greg remembered that one time when he was lazy he took his beloved '97 Chevy Tahoe to Jiffy Lube for a quick oil change, and those knuckleheads used the wrong oil weight and his valves chatter was more annoying than Gregory Hines tap dancing until he quenched his rigs thirst with the proper and Vortec friendly SAE 5W-30 nectar

so since O'Really was having an oil special, 5 quarts plus oil filter for $18 bucks, he went out and got some

Note: The MicroGuard oil filter was Made in U.S.A.

and did that eliminate the engine ticking sound?

NO

Gregski 06-11-2016 10:01 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
that's it, that does it, then it was time to Conquer by Division

So, The Greg believing the ticking sound was a comin' from the passenger side, he did the following.

1. Unplugged the #8 spark plug wire from the distributor - the noise was there, so plugged it back in

2. Unplugged the #6 spark plug wire from the distributor - the noise was there, so plugged it back in

3. Unplugged the #4 spark plug wire from the distributor - THE NOISE WAS GONE - then plugged it back in and the noise came back

4. Unplugged the #2 spark plug wire from the distributor - the noise was there, so plugged it back in


FYI I turned the truck off each time I manipulated the spark plug leads, remember safety third!!!

Gregski 06-11-2016 10:12 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
so I removed the passenger side valve cover and checked the #4 Intake and Exhaust rockers for wiggability, there was no extra play there

Next, I removed the Intake rocker completely to inspect it and removed the push rod and rolled it on a flat surface to ensure it was straight and not bent, and they both appeared to be good

I ran the truck without them but the loose lifter now was tapping so I could not really isolate the ticking sound

I put the Intake pushrod and rocker back in and removed the Exhaust ones and inspected them as well, they also looked good, and running the engine without this one also did not help me determine where the sound was coming from

removing both rockers forced me to re adjust them which is what I wanted to do, I wanted to start from scratch with these two, and so I did I put #1 on TDC and adjusted the #4 Exhaust valve, than I put #6 on TDC and adjusted the #4 Intake valve

and did that eliminate the engine ticking sound?

NO

SkinnyG 06-11-2016 10:14 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Oh no.

SkinnyG 06-11-2016 10:17 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
No - pulling the plug wire off, and the sound goes away, is usually a piston problem.

Gregski 06-11-2016 10:18 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
so then it was time for some Deductive Reasoning

1. the noise was there before I rebuilt the Top End

2. after replacing the Cylinder Heads, Cam, Lifters, Push Rods, Timing Set, and Water Pump the noise was still there

3. there is no play in the #4 intake or exhaust valves so it can't be a collapsed lifter

so I think it's a worn con rod

Gregski 06-11-2016 10:20 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SkinnyG (Post 7621658)
No - pulling the plug wire off, and the sound goes away, is usually a piston problem.

yes Sir, I agree, the violent explosion is eliminated and that's what usually tests and rattles the bottom end, so yup, time to face the music

Hmmmm, who needs 8 cylinders anyway... Ladies and Gentlemen I give you the [ahem] Fuel Efficient V7 runs quieter too than a regular V8

rich weyand 06-11-2016 11:27 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Yeah, it's in the bottom-end.

Simplest, maybe cheapest, and most complete (i.e. not leaving other problems for later issues) is to get the 350/260 crate engine and transplant your top-end onto it. New pistons, rings, rods, bearings, 100% clean passages, all in one package. Drop the Vortec top end on it, swap the cam, and you're done.

$1500 and free shipping from either JEGS or Summit.

Gregski 06-11-2016 12:53 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rich weyand (Post 7621711)
Yeah, it's in the bottom-end.

Simplest, maybe cheapest, and most complete (i.e. not leaving other problems for later issues) is to get the 350/260 crate engine and transplant your top-end onto it. New pistons, rings, rods, bearings, 100% clean passages, all in one package. Drop the Vortec top end on it, swap the cam, and you're done.

$1500 and free shipping from either JEGS or Summit.

I wouldn't want to go flat tapped style bottom end if I was to get a short block, I hate the two piece rear seal

Gregski 06-11-2016 01:26 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
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drop your pan and slowly back away

here we are looking at #4

checked all the con rods and they all shift a hair side to side uniformally 1 - 8

rich weyand 06-11-2016 01:29 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 7621767)
I wouldn't want to go flat tapped style bottom end if I was to get a short block, I hate the two piece rear seal

For the first 100,000+ miles, it wouldn't matter.

Gregski 06-11-2016 01:30 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
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and here's what the #4 connection rod bearing looks like

Note: it still has the divits on it so it has not spun, which is the best I can say for it

so question is do I buy a stock replacement or a .002 over? and yes I am only replacing one bearing (I never said I am going to be proud of this "repair")

Gregski 06-11-2016 01:31 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rich weyand (Post 7621807)
For the first 100,000+ miles, it wouldn't matter.

dudes tell me going roller gives you 20 more horse power with a slide of your credit card! LOL plus you aint gotta play the Zinc oil additives game


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