The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network (https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/index.php)
-   The 1973 - 1987 Chevrolet & GMC Squarebody Pickups Message Board (https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/forumdisplay.php?f=4)
-   -   Restoring Rusty (https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=645440)

Gregski 06-12-2018 09:51 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
here's a cautionary note and a heads up, remember those alignment spacers we talked about earlier for the upper control arm, well be careful when you are putting them back in as they like to rotate upside down and slip out from underneath, slippery little suckers

below I caught them in the act

SCOTI 06-12-2018 09:55 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 8279841)
here's a cautionary note and a heads up, remember those alignment spacers we talked about earlier for the upper control arm, well be careful when you are putting them back in as they like to rotate upside down and slip out from underneath, slippery little suckers

below I caught them in the act

One quick round of electrical tape around the top tab helps prevent them from rotating by keeping them all together.

Gregski 06-12-2018 09:56 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
3 Attachment(s)
after it was all back together, I decided to grease the ball joints since they came with zirc fittings and I didn't wanna assume they was pre greased proper and such

so I busted out my trusty ol' grease gun my daddy bought over 30 years ago, and first thing I had to do was replace that worthless metal feeder tube with a bendy one so I could even reach and get to where it needed getting to

then I watched a few YouTube videos on how to burp a new tube of grease after you just load the gun, ha ha, oh boy once you know how to do it, look out the grease comes out sooo good

so you grease these up until you see the rubber boot expand and a little of grease start to ooze out

Gregski 06-12-2018 09:56 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SCOTI (Post 8279846)
One quick round of electrical tape around the top tab helps prevent them from rotating by keeping them all together.

thanks, smart!

Odaroloc 06-12-2018 08:41 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Great job! I remember reading through all of this a long time ago and its looking great!

hatzie 06-14-2018 01:30 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 8279839)
You know you got a Chevy when you buy your parts by the bucket, ha ha

these are new upper control arm shaft (assemblies) I just needed the metal shafts but NAPA only sold them as sets or kits which included the bushings, oh great, now I have three sets of bushings per side, lol

my passenger side shaft was mangled so I decided to replace both of them for evenability

Put the extra bushings in the individual bushing boxes and return em as if you bought too many... because you did.
They're all brand new quality parts so you're not cheating anyone.

fordguy40 06-15-2018 02:50 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Just spent the last couple of weeks reading this thread. Keep up the good work, Greg....Rusty's coming along nicely. Going to pass along your experience with the Vortec heads to a friend of mine who wants to put together another small block for his '70 GMC 3/4-ton 4x4 and really wanted to use those heads.

Gregski 06-16-2018 09:36 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hatzie (Post 8281243)
Put the extra bushings in the individual bushing boxes and return em as if you bought too many... because you did.
They're all brand new quality parts so you're not cheating anyone.

hee hee, The Greg did just that, great minds think alike Hatzie

Gregski 06-16-2018 09:45 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fordguy40 (Post 8281962)
Just spent the last couple of weeks reading this thread. Keep up the good work, Greg....Rusty's coming along nicely. Going to pass along your experience with the Vortec heads to a friend of mine who wants to put together another small block for his '70 GMC 3/4-ton 4x4 and really wanted to use those heads.

Thank you very much for the kind words. The Vortec heads can send one down the rabbit hole, they require a different intake manifold, they require different valve covers, and don't forget they also require that special intake manifold that only comes in that $50 gasket kit I mention.

If I was to run Vortec heads again I would only go with brand new ones to ensure they are not cracked. I would also buy them from aftermarket companies (like Scoggin-Dickey) that modify them for taller lift and install slightly larger valves in them. I don't think they port or polish them as they supposedly are good in that department already.

And if your friend really wants to get the most out of them then he should swap to a roller block and run a hydraulic roller cam.

hope that helps,
G

Whamo 06-20-2018 08:39 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
2 Attachment(s)
seeing as you were the inspiration for my dash project...I thought I'd share how mine came out...I dig but not sure it was worth all the work...

Gregski 06-20-2018 10:57 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Whamo (Post 8285053)
seeing as you were the inspiration for my dash project...I thought I'd share how mine came out...I dig but not sure it was worth all the work...

Looks good, but dang, that's a ton of round holes, ha ha

Whamo 06-20-2018 11:05 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 8285148)
Looks good, but dang, that's a ton of round holes, ha ha

71 to be exact...

Gregski 06-20-2018 11:16 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Whamo (Post 8285163)
71 to be exact...

dang, those would look nice welded up, and I don't mean with that JB Weld stuff I tried, but properly with a MIG spark machine, I noticed in your thread you have an air compressor so I hope you own a welder as well if not I highly recommend the Lincold 140C (C is for Commercial grade or something like that) this is not the junk you buy in the big box stores like Lowe's or Home Depot but from specialty welding shops like Tractor Supply or Granger, but soooo worth it, the guts are metal not plastic and the box weighs a ton.

Whamo 06-20-2018 11:34 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
2 Attachment(s)
Ive got a Hobart Champion that I am good at making a mess of things with...I have a small crush on anything Lincoln...

I considered welding up the holes (and still might) but wanted to play with the industrial and wood look in a truck - I build custom furniture out of reclaimed industrial metal and reclaimed barn wood...

It's hard to see, but I went High Class and used only the finest gutter guard material from Mé Nards to "grill" the holes...

Still need to cut slits in the dash wood...but since the AC is broked there is no hurry...

Gregski 06-20-2018 11:46 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Whamo (Post 8285189)
I have a small crush on anything Lincoln...

Oh my god your posts are hillarious, I am so glad I was not sippin on my coffee when I read that line or it would have been all over my keyboard

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whamo (Post 8285189)
It's hard to see, but I went High Class and used only the finest gutter guard material from Mé Nards to "grill" the holes...

yes nothing but the finest scrap for our rigs!

Gregski 06-22-2018 10:17 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
where do I begin this next endeavour update? I guess by saying, nothing ever good happens when I go on Craigslist "just to look"

so $180 bucks later Rusty and I got to see a bit of the hill country and were haulin' back this beauty

Can you guess what it is?

Gregski 06-23-2018 08:59 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
2 Attachment(s)
Why yes it is a Saginaw 4 speed transmission. How do we know well the reverse shifter lives in the side cover, where as on a Muncie it's in the tailshaft. Cool good to know.

By the way it's called a Saginaw because it was made/built in Saginaw Michigan. And by the way Saginaw is native Indian for "Not As Good As Muncie" ha ha

So first tip on buying one of them 60's four speed gear boxes: Buy as much as you can, in other words try to buy the shifter usually a Hurst and the fingers, ie the rods/sticks with the transmission. Highly advised.

Gregski 06-23-2018 09:08 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Continuing on, where as the all aluminum Muncie 4 speed comes in three flavors:
  • M20 (wide ratio)
  • M21 (close ratio)
  • M22 (also close ratio aka "The Rock Crusher" for BBCs)

The all iron Saginaw 4 speed comes in two(ish):
  • M26
  • M27

Gregski 06-23-2018 09:20 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
The Saginaw gets a bad rap for not being as strong as a Muncie and it's rated up to 300 horse power. So why did The Greg get one?

Well, my beloved A833 needs a rebuild and this will allow me to do a temporary transmissino swap to keep my daily on the road, really simple as that. This will also allow me to try a true 1960's four speed transmission be it weaker than a Muncie. You gotta understand that a Turbo 350 is rated at 350 horse power so only 50 more than the Saginaw and the TH350 was GMs go to transmission for everything.

I also twisted my logic seven different ways to justify this impulse buy. If the Muncie is all aluminum and is considered strong than aint iron stronger. Why do the Mopar guys swap from aluminum A833 cases to the iron cases when they build drag transmissions? And so what that 300 horse is it's peak, my truck in OEM form pulled 190(ish) horse on the dyno, and with my bolt on upgrades pulled only 255 horse, so I am well below that. Also with a more stout cam the power band rises from a factory idle - 5500 to something like 2500-5500 RPM so this transmission should put me in the power band with higher revs.

And finally, the Saginaw transmission was a cheaper alternative for GM but surved loyal duty in the Chevelles, Novas, Camaros, Fire Birds, Impalas, Corvettes, El Caminos, Tempests, Vegas, and did I mention Monzas, ha ha

so it will do, and I treat Rusty as a car not a truck so I don't go towing motor homes or the Space Shuttles

Gregski 06-23-2018 09:28 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
so the gentleman who sold me this unit said it came out of a first gen Fire bird, but that it was NOT native to the car, he was very clear about that

well I was so excited at the time that it went in one ear and out the other, I'm sure some of you can relate to that, it's part of the impulse buy protocol, blinders on, and we hear what we wanna hear

so the first mistake I made or the first lesson I learned was that out of all them cars you can get the Saginaw out of, the Vega/Monza configuration is the worst one you can get which is exactly what we have here, a Vega transmission / shifter setup

Huh? What? Why?

When the General installed the Saginaw in the Vega or Monza he decided to mount the shifter to the floor of the car!!! No! Instead of the transmission itself as God intended.

So the number one reason for me getting this trans (that being cause it came with the shifter and linkage) just went out the window, and I found myself on eBay looking for a different shifter and rods.

The Vega shifter also was not a Hurst but some generic GM piece of junk and it was all warn out, I tried to rebuild it but gave up...

Gregski 06-23-2018 09:35 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
so $217 dollars later (yes more than what we paid for the transmission in the first place) see lesson #1 above, ha ha we had ourselves what we believe is a proper or more better transmission mounted shifter linkage - this one I was told came out of a Chevelle

Gregski 06-23-2018 09:57 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
2 Attachment(s)
and this is what the shifter bits looked like when they arrived, can't wait to bolt them on and give them a go shiftin gears

hopefully they don't position the shifter too far back where we have bench seat clearance issues

kinda cool that the eBayer threw in that white shifter ball, I happen to have a shifter stick that I hope will work so this should give me everything I need

Gregski 06-23-2018 10:01 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
Saginaw Specifics

When looking at a Saginaw transmission, the front input shaft will likely have one or multiple grooves cut around its diameter. These grooves are there to indicate the ratios of the gears inside the transmission.

0 grooves: First 2.84, Second 2.01, Third 1.34, Fourth, 1.00

1 groove: First 2.54, Second 1.84, Third 1.44, Fourth, 1.00

1 groove: First 2.54, Second 1.84, Third 1.32, Fourth, 1.00

2 grooves: First 3.11, Second 2.20, Third 1.47, Fourth, 1.00

3 grooves: First 3.50, Second 2.46, Third 1.65, Fourth, 1.00 (I believe ours has three grooves so it's this one)

rusty76 06-23-2018 09:01 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
This ought to be fun. I’m watching. I know you are ready to cruise a new four speed.

Gregski 06-24-2018 06:39 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
so decided to clean the Saginaw four speed transmission a bit, using Mineral Spirits from Home Depot, a wire brush, and some paper towels

Gregski 06-24-2018 06:41 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
2 Attachment(s)
remember our goal being: Progress Not Perfection

Gregski 06-24-2018 06:43 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
and here it is with the Hurst four speed shifter linkage mounted and my old chrome HURST shifter installed, not sure if this stick will work/clear but we shall see, it does look pretty cool though

of course couldn't mount the white ball do to thread differences not only size but also pitch, coarse vs fine, it's not easy fellas, really wanted to see that ball atop the stick

Gregski 06-24-2018 06:53 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
When looking for a brand new Hurst shifter components I further learned there were two Saginaw transmission types the 441 and the 456.

Hurst makes linkage for the 441 but not for the 456. So naturally I believe I have the 456, lol. Though with that Chevelle style bracket I think it makes it a moot point as to which one I have the 441 vs the 456 as it mounts the shifter using the bracket and ignored the holes in the tailshaft.

hope you is following all this it can get unnecesarily complicated

and I still don't get how this is supposed to be a torque tube transmission as it accepts a regular Turbo 350 yoke and has a rear seal for an open shaft, but the graphic saying it could be off of a 1981-82 Camaro or Firebird makes me feel a bit warm and fuzzy inside

hatzie 06-25-2018 10:39 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
The F-body torque tube mounts to the three holes on the bottom of the tailhousing.

Gregski 06-26-2018 01:15 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hatzie (Post 8288515)
The F-body torque tube mounts to the three holes on the bottom of the tailhousing.

thanks bud anyway you can help me find a pic of one, I can't seem to find it on the Google, ha ha

brakenit 06-26-2018 01:36 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 8289000)
thanks bud anyway you can help me find a pic of one, I can't seem to find it on the Google, ha ha

He meant torque arm, 3rd and 4th gen f-bodies had a torque arm suspension. C5 and newer Corvettes have a torque tube.

A bushing bolts to the tail housing of the transmission and then a link connects the rear axle to that bushing to control axle rotation. It's basically a type of 3 link suspension.

Looks like the Vega had a torque arm suspension as well.

I found this picture here.

http://dave.h-body.org/H-body%20Conversion%20Tips.htm

Gregski 06-26-2018 01:59 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by brakenit (Post 8289005)
He meant torque arm, 3rd and 4th gen f-bodies had a torque arm suspension. C5 and newer Corvettes have a torque tube.

A bushing bolts to the tail housing of the transmission and then a link connects the rear axle to that bushing to control axle rotation. It's basically a type of 3 link suspension.

Looks like the Vega had a torque arm suspension as well.

I found this picture here.

http://dave.h-body.org/H-body%20Conversion%20Tips.htm

Thank you, aha, I appreciate that, but there's a big difference between a torque tube and a torque arm. I can buy into the torque arm setup, the torque tube as you pointed out I only knew of one modern car that had it that being the Corvette, the older Chevys may have had it but those may have been pre War cars or 50s.

brakenit 06-26-2018 02:23 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 8289013)
Thank you, aha, I appreciate that, but there's a big difference between a torque tube and a torque arm. I can buy into the torque arm setup, the torque tube as you pointed out I only knew of one modern car that had it that being the Corvette, the older Chevys may have had it but those may have been pre War cars or 50s.

I agree, I don't understand why your graphic says torque tube since that should refer to some type of enclosed driveshaft which no Camaro ever had.

Gregski 07-05-2018 03:28 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
it's that time of year again Comrads, haha

MikeB 07-05-2018 05:26 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 8287289)
Saginaw Specifics

When looking at a Saginaw transmission, the front input shaft will likely have one or multiple grooves cut around its diameter. These grooves are there to indicate the ratios of the gears inside the transmission.

0 grooves: First 2.84, Second 2.01, Third 1.34, Fourth, 1.00 (I believe ours has zero grooves so it's this one)

1 groove: First 2.54, Second 1.84, Third 1.44, Fourth, 1.00

1 groove: First 2.54, Second 1.84, Third 1.32, Fourth, 1.00

2 grooves: First 3.11, Second 2.20, Third 1.47, Fourth, 1.00

3 grooves: First 3.50, Second 2.46, Third 1.65, Fourth, 1.00

And the one with the tallest first gear (2.54) can handle the most torque. That's the ratio our trucks used for 350s with 3-speed manual trans.

The 3.50 first gear was used behind small six cyl engines, like the 250. Your 2.84 is probably right on the ragged edge for a 350, but I know you're a conservative driver. :)

rusty76 07-05-2018 08:33 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Is that a current pic of Rusty? Man what happened to the hood? I still like seeing you taking Rusty camping.

Gregski 07-05-2018 10:46 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rusty76 (Post 8294956)
Is that a current pic of Rusty? Man what happened to the hood? I still like seeing you taking Rusty camping.

yes current pic, used wrong acid, muriatic instead of phosphoric to clean it, broke my heart when the rust came back, got second hood, will paint it instead, the rusted one is also tacoed

peace and chicken grease,
g

Gregski 07-11-2018 03:20 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeB (Post 8294827)
...but I know you're a conservative driver. :)

ha ha, yup, I almost chocked on my beer when I read that, sure thing I'm a super hypermiler, lol

Gregski 07-11-2018 03:25 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
3 Attachment(s)
Rusty treated me to some scary transmission noises on the way to work this morning to where I had to limp it home after work. So I decided to open up Midnight Auto and go Def Con 4 on the ol' OD trans!

I lifted the truck up to the highest click on the Harbor Freight 6 ton jacks and went to town

at nearly 10 PM it was still almost 80* F

Gregski 07-11-2018 03:29 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
4 Attachment(s)
How does a one man with a bad elbow git the trans out by himself without a proper transmission jack you ask?

Introducing the Semi Fully Adjustable TransJack 3000... suitable for the semi amateur casual transmission swapper

brought to you by Pollack Potrafi (TM)


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:41 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright 1997-2022 67-72chevytrucks.com