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-   -   Restoring Rusty (https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=645440)

Gregski 05-14-2015 03:17 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
5 Attachment(s)
decided this was as good a time as any to delete the charcoal canister, after all getting rid of it would also get rid of at least one of them three hard lines

and so I yanked it all out, including the long noodle evap hard line all in one piece, how impressive is that folks, JK

Gregski 05-14-2015 03:19 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty - Charcoal Canister Delete
 
3 Attachment(s)
now before we git into an argument why in the world would I remove the charcoal canister, lemme just say, betcha didn't realize it is hallow on the bottom?

ok, now lets have at it

Gregski 05-14-2015 03:23 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
4 Attachment(s)
OK, with the evap fuel line removed and the others shoved out of the way got the passenger side long tube header installed

no major plug wire issues on this side like the #5 on the opposite side

bottom A arm has plenty of clearance too

Chrispbrown36 05-14-2015 10:02 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
I was looking things over in my 87 today and it looks to me like getting headers in there might be a pain. The motor mounts look like they will hit them. I was wondering about the legality of removing the emissions crap that goes into the manifolds. Since obviously the tubes in the manifold will be removed when you put the headers on it obviously the egr thingy will not be hooked up correctly. So, if you live in a state or area that requires emission testing will it pass? Being in California I am sure you have to deal with it.

hatzie 05-14-2015 10:25 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chrispbrown36 (Post 7172384)
i was looking things over in my 87 today and it looks to me like getting headers in there might be a pain. The motor mounts look like they will hit them. I was wondering about the legality of removing the emissions crap that goes into the manifolds. Since obviously the tubes in the manifold will be removed when you put the headers on it obviously the egr thingy will not be hooked up correctly. So, if you live in a state or area that requires emission testing will it pass? Being in california i am sure you have to deal with it.

1974...

Chrispbrown36 05-14-2015 11:13 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
He had the EGR tubes in the manifolds, which are part of emissions, and the charcoal canister. I understand he doesn't have all the crap I have but I am just curious how the headers will effect the inspections.

Gregski 05-14-2015 11:40 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrispbrown36 (Post 7172493)
He had the EGR tubes in the manifolds, which are part of emissions, and the charcoal canister. I understand he doesn't have all the crap I have but I am just curious how the headers will effect the inspections.

no inspections for 1975 and older cars

Chrispbrown36 05-14-2015 11:56 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
I did not realize that. I might be heading to an area that requires inspections and if I am not mistaken they require them to have all the original emissions crap no matter the age. I would have pulled it all off if it weren't for this.

rich weyand 05-15-2015 12:56 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Gregski: What I did with the 5/7 and 6/8 wires is reverse the looming on them. I bring 5 off in the 7 loom and go down and forward, and bring 7 forward to the 5 loom and then go down and back. This is with the Hooker 2453 (for K trucks) so not sure if you can do the same thing or not.

In this pic, on the back looming hooks, you would think the wires would be 1-3-5-7 counting out from the valve cover, but they're not. It's 1-3-7-5. So the 5 wire comes off first, goes down then forward, then the 7 wire comes off, goes down and back.

http://users.rcn.com/weyand/smalls/imag0732small.jpg

Gregski 05-15-2015 01:32 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rich weyand (Post 7172908)
Gregski: What I did with the 5/7 and 6/8 wires is reverse the looming on them. I bring 5 off in the 7 loom and go down and forward, and bring 7 forward to the 5 loom and then go down and back. This is with the Hooker 2453 (for K trucks) so not sure if you can do the same thing or not.

In this pic, on the back looming hooks, you would think the wires would be 1-3-5-7 counting out from the valve cover, but they're not. It's 1-3-7-5. So the 5 wire comes off first, goes down then forward, then the 7 wire comes off, goes down and back.

Thank you Rich I may try something like that, though my noodles wrap around differently, my #1 pipe jumps over both the #3 and #5 pipes before dropping down, the wierd thing is, the passenger side is different, not sure why.

Gregski 05-15-2015 01:36 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
had my two pipes exfoliated, at a muffler shop, $5 bucks to do both, I will give them my business again when I have a bigger job, very appreciative

got to watch how they did it, pretty cool machine, no idea how I could have given it that much force manually

Gregski 05-15-2015 01:39 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty - Header Bolt Set
 
1 Attachment(s)
had to pick up a Header Bold Set, basically shorter bolts since the headers are less bulky, and smaller heads, 7/16 instead of 9/16

Gregski 05-15-2015 01:42 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
3 Attachment(s)
after hours and hours of measuring, swearing, and trying different arrangements, in the end, cut 6" off the front side of the X with my trusty 4" angle grinder/cut off wheel and ran it the wider way, and 1 inch off the rear which I ran the shorter way

doing this as a one man circus act was NO fun!

Gregski 05-15-2015 01:44 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty - Headers Done
 
... after 14 long hours we were done !!!

and by WE I mean the Royal We, lol

so at 10:30 PM I fired her up for the first time...



Note: This included picking kid up from school, going to the muffler shop, and the auto parts house.

rajincajintj 05-15-2015 12:55 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty - Headers Done
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 7172936)
I fired her up for the first time...


oooo

real vroom vroom noises are the best.

congrats man.

Gregski 05-15-2015 08:57 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
speaking of that VHT paint I used on the headers, it says

After paint is completely dry it must be cured to substantially increase the durability of the finish and and enhance chemical resistance. Finish is not chemical resistant until cured.

there are 2 ways to cure them, Off The Vehicle and On The Vehicle

We focus on the On The Vehicle method.
  • Run at idle for 10 minutes then cool for 20 minutes.
  • Run at idle for 20 minutes then let cool for 20 minutes.
  • Run under normal operating conditions for 30 minutes then let cool.

allow me to translate that for you...

[ahem] making a good header coating product is difficult, making a good header coating product in a ratlle can is impossible, but there is definately a need, and it can be very lucrative, so what if we make a mediocre product and put the onus on the car guy to screw things up by giving him ridiculous procedures first to read in fine print (cause we know no one does) and then to follow (again no one will) then if the results aren't what they expect, well they only have themselves to blame, heck maybe they'll even buy a second can to try it again

cnorth 05-16-2015 10:40 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
now why do I need such a contraption when Rusty is a carburated, well you can tune a carburetor real good like if you know the exact precise air fuel ratio, so some day I would like to connect a permanent Air Fuel gauge and this way I will already have that provision[/QUOTE]

could you or someone explain what you are talking about here I've heard about these just not exactly sure of it

Gregski 05-16-2015 10:58 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by cnorth (Post 7174352)
could you or someone explain what you are talking about here I've heard about these just not exactly sure of it

Sure, so I plan on getting me one of these wideband (as opposed to narrowband) air fuel ratio gauges.

Narrowband only shows you Lean - Good - Rich states, where as a wideband displays the actual ratio number on a digital display ie 14.7

the one I plan on getting is a single gauge with two O2 (Oxygen sensors) connected to it. The O2 sensors get installed in the exhaust pipes after the exhaust manifolds or headers and before the catalytic converters if you got em.

Since I have a V8 engine with dual exhaust I want one sensor in each pipe so that I can see how balanced my banks of cylinders are. Is one running rich while the other side is running lean for example.

Here is one of the products, it is pretty expensive, this is not a cheap $20 dollar guage we are talking about here.

INNOVATE DLG-1: Dual Lambda (AFR) Gauge Kit
includes the DLG-1 gauge,
(2) Wideband oxygen OČ sensors,
(2) 8 ft sensor cables,
LC-2 Wideband Controller,
(2) OČ sensor weld-on bungs,
Black/Silver bezel,
Black/White faceplate,
Serial program cable,
& Installation manual.

P/N: 3891

MSRP $399


http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/dlg1.php

cnorth 05-16-2015 12:49 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Ok so I've never seen the digital gauge like that reading both sensors, I'm guessing your going for more power and fuel efficiency with that setup.

you all ways do some cool stuff

enaberif 05-16-2015 12:53 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
You can get FAR cheaper setups to use a Wideband. For example there is a company up in here in Canada that you can get the cabling and O2 sensor for $100 for one side. It obviously gets more expensive when you are running dual exhaust such as Gregg is as both sides need to be equal.

The funny thing is its a $300 part that you'll use once and then put it away because once your carb is tuned it should be pretty good forever.

Gregski 05-16-2015 01:02 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by enaberif (Post 7174500)
The funny thing is its a $300 part that you'll use once and then put it away because once your carb is tuned it should be pretty good forever.

Negative it is permamently mounted in your vehicle along side the other gauges and gives real time readings, so as you go from 9 feet above sea level where I live to 3,000 where I go camping you can stare at it and go wow so that's what is going on here

check out this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUfkn161k6U

cnorth 05-16-2015 03:14 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
I watched the video, maybe I'm just old but it just looks like a gizmo.
no offense

greg64 05-16-2015 06:59 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
I've had a wide band on my truck for about 6 years. I'm using the Innovate LC-1. Once you have this new information, you'll never go back. If you feel a stumble, you can quickly look at the gauge and see 18:1; no wonder. And, like Greg, my truck sees big changes in elevation, and you can jet the carb correctly for where the truck is being used. And when I'm heavy towing, I make darn sure the ratio doesn't get lean under power.

I have an analog gauge with 270 degrees of sweep. I think this displays the information better than digital numbers because we're not talking about a super-steady reading. But being able to see both banks on a v8 would be good too. I might buy one of those for my suburban, as it has the dash hole ready for the gauge (told you I could never go back).

Also consider that with a dual plane intake on a sbc, the carb is *not* feeding the left bank and the right bank separately. So the dual O2 gauge is still a blend of the total carb.

Gregski 05-16-2015 08:22 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty - Inner Fender Undercoating II
 
5 Attachment(s)
unhappy with the RUST-OLEUM Undercoating on the inner fender I decided to give the 3M product a shot

results = better, but not great, as you can see it sputtered some bigger drops here and there rather than being nice and uniform spatter, anyway I will try the SEM Undercoating 39523 next, its all about the learning process

had to use the entire can which is a good single coat, cost was around $10 bucks

Gregski 05-16-2015 08:26 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
2 Attachment(s)
a little before and after off the driver side inner fender, should be going back on maniana after the undercoating dries

Gregski 05-16-2015 08:39 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty - Operation Tachometer
 
3 Attachment(s)
check out what I picked up on eBay back in February but was holdin' out on you, a gauge cluster with a Tachometer - $80 bucks I think, score, it even came with a wiring harness, however no small fuel gauge and the circuit board is toast

Gregski 05-16-2015 08:45 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty - Gauge Cluster
 
2 Attachment(s)
I have discovered that if you want to keep the stock look the hardest thing to get is the blueish/greenish plastic housing for the gauges, there is a difference between the one without a tach and one with

In my case I am not just replacing a 1974 no tach cluster with a 1974 cluster with a tach, I wasn't able to find one of the same year

I recon I have picked up at least a 1978 gauge cluster as that may have been the first year of the electronic oil pressure gauge, which it has

below I highlight the physical differences in the gauge housing cluster thingie

Top Pic - 1974 no Tachometer, Ammeter, Mechanical Oil Pressure (manual transmission)

Bottom Pic - 1978 with Tachometer, Voltmeter, Electric Oil Pressure (bottom also happened to be automatic trans)

cnorth 05-16-2015 09:10 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greg64 (Post 7174802)
I've had a wide band on my truck for about 6 years. I'm using the Innovate LC-1. Once you have this new information, you'll never go back. If you feel a stumble, you can quickly look at the gauge and see 18:1; no wonder. And, like Greg, my truck sees big changes in elevation, and you can jet the carb correctly for where the truck is being used. And when I'm heavy towing, I make darn sure the ratio doesn't get lean under power.

I have an analog gauge with 270 degrees of sweep. I think this displays the information better than digital numbers because we're not talking about a super-steady reading. But being able to see both banks on a v8 would be good too. I might buy one of those for my suburban, as it has the dash hole ready for the gauge (told you I could never go back).

Also consider that with a dual plane intake on a sbc, the carb is *not* feeding the left bank and the right bank separately. So the dual O2 gauge is still a blend of the total carb.

So when you see the ratio change are you able to adjust from the cab?

cnorth 05-16-2015 09:19 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty - Operation Tachometer
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 7174883)
check out what I picked up on eBay back in February but was holdin' out on your, a gauge cluster with a Tachometer - $80 bucks I think, score, it even came with a wiring harness, however no small fuel gauge and the circuit board is toast

It's amazing the deals you find, I would love a tach.

Do you if the small gas gauge will support duel tanks

Gregski 05-16-2015 09:33 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cnorth (Post 7174913)
So when you see the ratio change are you able to adjust from the cab?

Depends, on cars with carburetors no, but these gauges are popular on Throttle Bodied cars, ie modern cars, in which case you could get geeky and have a passenger with a laptop tap in to the ECU (the car computer block box) with an ODBII connector, gosh I thought I left all this geeky stuff behind me when I got rid of the Corrado, or the car computer makes thousandths of adjustments as you drive automagically for you, that type of thing

Gregski 05-16-2015 09:38 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty - Operation Tachometer
 
2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by cnorth (Post 7174922)
It's amazing the deals you find...

Lets not pop the champagne just yet, we have no idea if any of this actually works, I bought it as is, and we already know the circuit board is toast and a new one is going to set me back $70 bucks

Gregski 05-16-2015 09:39 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty - Operation Tachometer
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cnorth (Post 7174922)
Do you [know] if the small gas gauge will support duel tanks

I'm sorry I do not, I purposely bought a truck with one tank (LOL), simple is better

Gregski 05-16-2015 09:45 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty - Tachometer
 
3 Attachment(s)
One thing that surprised me is that the Tachometer is not like the other gauges, ie two or three studs sticking out of the back. The Tachometer comes with an appendage, it has a different form factor

I guess I just expected the tach to look like a speedometer, especially having seen all the modern aftermarket ones where they look like matching beer cans, know what I mean

Gregski 05-16-2015 09:48 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
5 Attachment(s)
dang forgot I had all these drama build up pictures of the new (used) gauge clusters arrival, LOL...

Gregski 05-16-2015 10:07 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
2 Attachment(s)
ok so the Tachometer has a square butt, so why can't we just cut a square hole in our non tach housings and call it good?

Great question, and it's not like the Greg hasn't thought of it, he's been itching to put his dremel to good use, LOL

It seems like someone at GM was tasked with making these cluster not interchengeable and has succeeded, you see we would also have to cut the printer circuit board and that's where things get a bit hairy since the Tach would go where the large Fuel Gauge lives

here are the backs cloaked with their respected circuit boards for comparison

so put those propane torches down and slowly back away folks... jk

Gregski 05-16-2015 11:48 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty - New Visors
 
4 Attachment(s)
say what do we have here?

did my baby brother finally drop off my Christmas present?

Why yes he did, and just in time for my Birthday, LOL

but Greg aint it May, why yes it is, apparently you don't have a younger sibling, LOL

gotta love that LMC packaging

Gregski 05-16-2015 11:53 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty - Visors
 
4 Attachment(s)
now we thought you was painting all your brown interior black with that special interior upholstery spray paint?

well I was trying it out, but the visors were too far gone and broken, take a look

Gregski 05-16-2015 11:55 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty - Old VS New Visors
 
1 Attachment(s)
here are the old ones and the new ones side by side, I recon I will have to reuse and paint the pivot sticks since Santa didn't bring me those and I don't have another 5 months to wait, JK

Titomars 05-17-2015 01:53 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty - Operation Tachometer
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cnorth (Post 7174922)
It's amazing the deals you find, I would love a tach.

Do you if the small gas gauge will support duel tanks

yes it will. The gauge does not care how many tanks it is hooked through. The switching is at the tank selector switch.

cnorth 05-17-2015 10:23 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty - Operation Tachometer
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Titomars (Post 7175200)
yes it will. The gauge does not care how many tanks it is hooked through. The switching is at the tank selector switch.

Thanks I kinda figured that but wasn't sure, it's a future project waaaaay down the road.


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