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-   -   Restoring Rusty (https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=645440)

Gregski 12-04-2017 10:40 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
First of all, all excellent questions, I am no POR15 expert but I have used it a few times now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blindbug (Post 8096577)
I have questions:
• I've heard from reviews that the POR 15 tends to lighten in color, turning a purple color (or even pinkish) when exposed to UV light... any thoughts on your application?

I am not sure POR 15 was designed to be out in the sun, they make different products some are meant to be painter over, some are to be hidden under the vehicle like their chssis black, or hidden in the engine bay under the hood, is my understanding.

I have not seen mine turn purple, but I had it go blotchy, meaning I bought the glossy type and painted my '68 Mustang engine bay with it (two coates as per instructions) and when it all was said and done and dry, some spots were shinny and some were flat and dull. So I called the company up and they said sometimes it just does that? Say What?!


Quote:

Originally Posted by blindbug (Post 8096577)
• You are using Phosphoric Acid to prep, and then applying POR 15, correct? I see concrete etcher at the local home improvement as Phosphoric Acid, but I'm not sure if that's the same, or if it is the same strength...

Best advice I can give you, is use it's two sister products, one is called Cleaner Degreaser (what I substitute Denatured Alcohol for) the other is Metal Prep (essentially really weak Phosphoric Acid (read the ingredients)). But if you use their stuff and follow their directions you have the best chance of getting proper results. This is not a cop out, I just suggest you try their stuff the first time around, and go from there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blindbug (Post 8096577)
Where'd you source your acid, and what strength is it (or do you even know)?

I have said this in the forum though I don't expect anybody to find it it's gotten so big, LOL, I buy mine at Home Depot, it's like $5 bucks for a gallon. Lessons Learned: Anything Home Depot sells is not true Automobile Quality, but it's good enuff. I use it straight up on really rusty bits and delute it with water on other bits, you will figure that out, it may eat some metal, it likes to ruin hood springs, lol.

Bloodhound 12-05-2017 01:38 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
POR 15 has no UV protection so it will discolor if exposed to UV over time. Topcoat it with regular paint of your choice if it's going to see sunlight.

daddyjeep 12-05-2017 03:37 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 8096908)
First of all, all excellent questions, I am no POR15 expert but I have used it a few times now.



I am not sure POR 15 was designed to be out in the sun, they make different products some are meant to be painter over, some are to be hidden under the vehicle like their chssis black, or hidden in the engine bay under the hood, is my understanding.

I have not seen mine turn purple, but I had it go blotchy, meaning I bought the glossy type and painted my '68 Mustang engine bay with it (two coates as per instructions) and when it all was said and done and dry, some spots were shinny and some were flat and dull. So I called the company up and they said sometimes it just does that? Say What?!




Best advice I can give you, is use it's two sister products, one is called Cleaner Degreaser (what I substitute Denatured Alcohol for) the other is Metal Prep (essentially really weak Phosphoric Acid (read the ingredients)). But if you use their stuff and follow their directions you have the best chance of getting proper results. This is not a cop out, I just suggest you try their stuff the first time around, and go from there.



I have said this in the forum though I don't expect anybody to find it it's gotten so big, LOL, I buy mine at Home Depot, it's like $5 bucks for a gallon. Lessons Learned: Anything Home Depot sells is not true Automobile Quality, but it's good enuff. I use it straight up on really rusty bits and delute it with water on other bits, you will figure that out, it may eat some metal, it likes to ruin hood springs, lol.

The POR15 metal prep has phosphoric acid as well as zink Phosphate. The zink Phosphate is what is used for galvanizing, so that I what I used.
Now back to the Christmas in December.... I see truck parts a strange box and more truck parts.

Gregski 12-09-2017 01:11 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by daddyjeep (Post 8097358)
Now back to the Christmas in December.... I see truck parts a strange box and more truck parts.

LOL, that's what The Greg said, I recon the strange box may be my X-mas present from the wife, Kansas City Chiefs T shirt maybe, fingers crossed (yes I am a recovering 49ers fan who followed my boy Alex Smith to K.C. like Montana before him... my '9er friends call the Chiefs, 49ers [Mid] West, ha ha)

... and for the record I asked for that T shirt when the boys in red were [ahem] still winning!!!

Rich84 12-11-2017 10:52 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 8100608)
LOL, that's what The Greg said, I recon the strange box may be my X-mas present from the wife, Kansas City Chiefs T shirt maybe, fingers crossed (yes I am a recovering 49ers fan who followed my boy Alex Smith to K.C. like Montana before him... my '9er friends call the Chiefs, 49ers [Mid] West, ha ha)

... and for the record I asked for that T shirt when the boys in red were [ahem] still winning!!!

No sympathy from a Giant fan here...LOL

Gregski 12-14-2017 04:22 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty - New Aluminum Radiator Leak
 
3 Attachment(s)
So this $273 Northern aluminum radiator I bought on Amazon exactly 1 year ago just made it one year and sprung a leak. So a leak after 10,000 miles, lame

leaks about 1/2 a gallon a day


Ratman74 12-14-2017 06:22 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Sorry to see that, but I feel your pain. I bought one from LMC a couple years ago for my '78 and had the same thing happen. I returned it and bought one from NAPA (not aluminum). That was 7 or 8 years ago and no problems.

Gregski 12-15-2017 11:27 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratman74 (Post 8105060)
Sorry to see that, but I feel your pain. I bought one from LMC a couple years ago for my '78 and had the same thing happen. I returned it and bought one from NAPA (not aluminum). That was 7 or 8 years ago and no problems.

thank you for your feedback, that is great news, can you share more info, did you buy one of them plastic/aluminum ones, or a full metal one? how many rows? do you drive a V8 etc.

Gregski 12-15-2017 11:33 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
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so took the original brass/copper radiator for a drive the other day to Sacramento Radiator Service shop, they said it would cost more money to get it re cored than to just buy a new one for $369 bucks, they also offered a cheap new replacement for $139

man that was too rich for my blood especially around this time of year (ie Christmas) so I drove over to another shop for a second opinion and just for the heck of it, at Ideal Radiator (the owner is 90 years old by the way and has done this for a long time) so the younger lady running the front office was super nice and explained everything that was wrong with my old rad and also confirmed a rebuild would be over $400 so I ended up buying a cheap plastic and aluminum one from her for $114 a RadCool brand?, I figured at that price I can take my chances and or buy myself some time, she convinced me if I change the radiator cap once a year this one will last me a long time, we shall see....

we will be installing this one tomorrow on Saturday, pics to follow

SkinnyG 12-15-2017 11:57 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
I had my original rad re-cored locally with a high-density 4-row core a couple years ago. It was as pricey as your quotes, but it's holding dandy.

As an aside - I fabricated an all-aluminum radiator using a good core that had a cracked plastic tank, and I made my own tanks and spigots and all that. Careful TIG welding, pressure-tested, and it's holding up fine so far (not for my truck - for my V8 Chevy Sprint).

If you can find the leak, and know someone with TIG, you could probably repair the rad. The cheap rad will at least get you going.

Matt Man 12-15-2017 03:47 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
I had the same dilemma when I did my motor swap. I took my old harrison radiator to a couple of shops to have it re cored 450$ no thank you... I bought a cheapo aluminum one off summit and it has been fine no leaks and holds up in 110+ heat out here.

Ratman74 12-16-2017 05:07 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
I will have to give some specs when I get back home. I know it is a 4 core has plastic end tanks.

Gregski 12-16-2017 10:26 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty - Cheap New Plastic and Aluminum radiator
 
4 Attachment(s)
man I gotta admit it was difficult getting motivated to work on the truck today, first of all it was the windiest day of the year, second, you all know how much we all love having to redo things we have already done, but hey it's Hot Roddin

so lets get acquainted with our new cheap radiator aka Mr. Cool, ... Rad Cool.

Gregski 12-16-2017 10:29 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty - RadCool Radiator
 
2 Attachment(s)
and a bit closer and personal

well in all fairness the fitment was spot on, everything lined up, and installation was a breeze, only single knuckle damage!

Gregski 12-16-2017 10:32 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty - Radiator Pressure Test
 
1 Attachment(s)
I did pressure test the bad aluminum one first before yanking it out, and I could not pump it up beyond 10 PSI (I was shootin' for 15 PSI as that's what the caps be rated at) anyway as soon as I would stop pumpin' the needle would head south, so in other words it would not hold pressure worth beans

Gregski 12-16-2017 10:36 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
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and the mandatory Stare & Compare

1. Original (lasted over 40 years, we think) I liked this one because it came without automatic transmission nipples ~ Smooth!

2. Aluminum $275 (lasted a year) I had to make sure they shipped me one without the automatic transmission nipples - Sa Mooth!

3. Cheap $114 (what do you expect, came with the ugly automatic transmission nipples, lol)

Gregski 12-18-2017 12:57 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
2 Attachment(s)
just wanted to share some valuable follow up on the radiator leak issue with you all, so the next day after installing the new plastic radiator and driving it around for a bit I go to do a pressure test, and as soon as I reach 10 PSI I hear a hissing sound and see a tiny drizzle from the upper radiator hose at the filler on the radiator (driver side), ok, time to tighten my fancy shmancy T-bolt style clamp, I didn't Gorilla it originally as the rad has a plastic filler tube, didn't wanna crack it, so now I tighten it a bit more and repeat the pressure test, and it still leaks - gosh darn it I think, here we go again where I fall for the Form Over Function look, and it bites me as always

So I replace the fancy T-bolt style clamp with the cheap Hand Slicer type, and tighten it just a tiny bit snug, and start the pressure test again, 5 PSI... good, 10 PSI... good, and then all of a sudden I hear another hiss and hear coolant hitting the ground, what in the world is going on?

Well now the bottom fancy T-bolt on the passenger side Outlet is leaking, so I try and tighten that one a bit more snug, and repeat the test, and as soon as I get past 10 PSI it hisses back at me still and drizzles out some more fluid on the ground

Man, I go into my cheap Hand Slicer Hose Clamp (HSHC) stash and pull out another ugly / sharp dime a dozen hose clamp and replace that shinny T-bolt one with it, snag it up just a bit and repeat the pressure test again, 5 PSI... good, 10 PSI... good, 15 PSI still good

So there you have it gents, one defective T-bolt I can live with, but both doing the same thing and in the same spot of the T-bolt, right under where there actual bolt goes, tells me it's just a poor design or a defective batch of clamps

thought it was worth sharing, I also strongly stress you all investing in a Radiator Pressure Test kit, cause you know finding those leaks without one would have been tough and perhaps dangerous, if you was to go looking around a steaming hot radiator with naturally built up pressure

rusty76 12-18-2017 08:33 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
That’s crazy how they both were defective.

Sik66 12-18-2017 08:33 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Soooo......was the reason for the leak in the full alloy one from those clamps?....or cracked tube/tank?

Gregski 12-20-2017 11:28 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sik66 (Post 8108449)
Soooo......was the reason for the leak in the full alloy one from those clamps?....or cracked tube/tank?

Great minds think alike, I had that same thought, and must test the aluminum radiator now outside the truck, hope I didn't make a $275 mistake, ha ha,

for the record I did pressure test the aluminum radiator before yanking it out and I did not hear any hissing from the rubber hoses nor see any leakage

... but first, guests, and Christmas, and stuff

hatzie 12-25-2017 11:25 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Breeze-Liner Breeze 9420 Aero-Seal Liner Clamps fit 13/16" to 1-3/4". They cost around $15 for 10. Never bought onesies.
I use Breeze clamps sized for 2" OD rad hoses down to around 5/8" OD heater hoses on farm and construction machinery.
Unlike Ideal clamps the worm drive screw and slots can take proper torque without stripping the worm screw or tearing the worm housing off the clamp. The Breeze-liner clamps also have that thin liner tang that extends around the inside of the band past the worm slots to keep the hose from extruding through the clamp and loosening up. They aren't much more than the cheap Ideal stainless worm clamps.

Gregski 12-30-2017 05:43 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
4 Attachment(s)
well the sun came out allowing me to test the aluminum radiator

I gotta tell you these expandable rubber freeze plugs if you will are indespensible for this type of testing

Gregski 12-30-2017 05:48 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
3 Attachment(s)
and here is our Free Range Radiator Pressure Testing Facility FRRPTF

well no need to tell you, bubbles aint good, it leaks where the core meets the tank, but at least we did not buy a new(er) radiator for nothing

FYI - non of my local radiator shops say they weld aluminum, so if you were going to make that recommendation I am a bit dissapointed to let you know that

SkinnyG 12-31-2017 01:36 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 8118151)
FYI - non of my local radiator shops say they weld aluminum, so if you were going to make that recommendation I am a bit dissapointed to let you know that

Try a welding shop?

rusty76 12-31-2017 10:37 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
In HVAC industry aluminum coils are hard to fix. Surely you could get it fixed but I have no ideas where to start.

Gregski 12-31-2017 11:39 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SkinnyG (Post 8118506)
Try a welding shop?

Thanks for the idea, I did and they would only TIG weld it if they could see / get at the crack easily, in this case it looks like the tank would have to come off, so I am up a creek paddle no!

No sweat boys, on to the next episode.

HunterRotten 12-31-2017 02:35 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
I got a mishimoto for mine, quality stuff with a lifetime warranty. just a thought for those of you browsing or for you, gregski.

SkinnyG 01-02-2018 03:25 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
How about TIG weld in a tube - JB Weld!

Maybe you can fix it - you have nothing to lose. I mean, it's broken - you can't make it brokener.

Gregski 03-29-2018 10:35 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty - One Year Daily Driver Update
 
2 Attachment(s)
So it's been a year and just over 13,000 miles since Rusty became my daily driver. And over that time I put up with some noises and leaks, but it got me to work when I needed it. And allthough the car runs super strong and is tuned nearly to perfection, (second pic, lol) it's not all roses, champaign, and caviar.

Gregski 03-29-2018 10:48 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty - Chocolate Milk Shake Anyone?
 
2 Attachment(s)
For those of you who have cured your insomnia by reading or attempting to read this entire thread, you will recall that we did rebuild this engine about 18 months ago, but there was no professional machining done to it, it was all blood sweat and beers in my own garage.

Having said that, I have performed a couple oil changes on it over the last year, and whilst checking the oil level a couple weeks ago I noticed this.

As my old co worker used to say, FEW PROBLEMS NOTHING MINOR!!!

Gregski 03-29-2018 10:57 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
now before I get flooded with the blown Head Gasket comments, ha ha let me give you a bit of a background and bring you up to speed

I don't know when this problem started. I don't know if there was a problem before I rebuilt the engine.

The short block is an original '74 engine, the top end now has '99 Suburban Vortec L31 cylinder heads.

I did not drive the truck often enough when it was all original top and bottom end ie long block to tell you if my truck was running out of coolant then, I wish I knew.

Well I've been adding water/coolant to it on a weekly basis seems like about a quart each Sunday night to last me through the week, but again I don't know if I would have had to do that before rebuilding the engine.

Also, important to note that we can not tell where the coolant is going,
  • there is nothing dripping below the truck
  • there is no white smoke coming out the tailpipe

The truck runs strong and does NOT overheat, well not until it runs completely out of coolant.

Gregski 03-29-2018 11:02 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty - Engine Block Tester
 
4 Attachment(s)
since I could not tell where the coolant was going, I decided to give one of them Engine Block Testers a shot

You rent this kit from AutoZone or some other parts house, and you buy the fluid at NAPA, the fluid don't come with the kit

The point of this test is to see if there are fumes in the coolant, this would would tell us if the coolant is making its way into the combustion chamber or exhaust chamber I think

You remove the radiator cap and stick the tube in the radiator and run the engine while pumping the rubber thingie to bring some fumes inside the tube, the blue fluid will turn yellow if there are fumes in the coolant.

Gregski 03-29-2018 11:07 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Well the Plot Thickens as the results were negative. I watched some YouTube videos of guys using this tester and seen the fluid turn yellow, mine did not.

This is why I told you all to hold your horses before saying Blown Head Gasket as that would have turned the fluid yellow, most likely. And trust me I would love for this to be just a blown head gasket, but I doubt it is.

Gregski 03-29-2018 11:12 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
2 Attachment(s)
I was off today so I decided to do a pressure test on my radiator / cooling system.

I pumped up the pressure to 15 PSI (standard radiator cap threshold I've been told) and went to the gym.

Two hours later we recorded a 5 PSI drop, so no duh there is a coolant / pressure leak... but where the heck is it?

For The Record: I did a pressure test like this once before with the valve covers off thinking I would see some bubbles in the valve train but no such luck. I may try it again but this time put the pump in where the water temp sending unit goes in one of the heads, maybe try both heads instead of pumping it up in the radiator, hey, I'm desperate to find this leak!

rusty76 03-31-2018 08:13 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Well poot. When all seems well. I had an engine that always seemed to sweat in the valve covers. I never really figured it out honestly. The oil itself wasn’t a milkshake and the water level was always the same. Ghost condensation I guess. Bad PVC or something. Good luck and hope you get rusty back together safely and running good.

peabobble 03-31-2018 09:03 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
I'd check the intake gaskets.

Gregski 03-31-2018 11:41 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
3 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by peabobble (Post 8226930)
I'd check the intake gaskets.

I think you may be on to something, I remember when I pulled my Vortec heads at the junk yard from that 1999 Suburban I took pictures of the intake manifold gaskets that were on there cause I liked them, they were the Fel-Pro 98000. However when I wanted to buy them they only came in a gasket set which ran about $50, so I opted out, now I regret it

Today when I Googled that part number I came across this article:

Fel-Pro Introduces Solution to Intake Manifold Gasket Leaks on Millions of Vehicles.
Publication: Business Wire
Date: Thursday, October 14 2004
You are viewing page 1

SOUTHFIELD, Mich. -- Fel-Pro(R), the automotive service industry's premier brand of engine sealing technologies, has introduced an advanced PermaDryPlus(R) replacement intake manifold gasket design that solves chronic coolant leakage issues facing millions of light trucks and sport-utility vehicles.
Fel-Pro Gaskets, "The Gaskets Professionals Trust," are manufactured and marketed by Federal-Mogul Corporation (OTCBB:FDMLQ).

Available through Fel-Pro suppliers across North America, the brand's latest gasket innovation ensures a lasting seal on millions of domestic engines that rely on extended-life coolant and were factory-equipped with rigid nylon and molded rubber-type intake manifold gaskets. A broad range of domestic engines may be susceptible to these sealing issues. Immediate coverage of the new Fel-Pro solution is offered for General Motors 5.0L and 5.7L engines manufactured from 1996 through 2002. Additional coverage -- for select Ford (3.8L, 4.0L and 4.2L) and G.M. (3.1L, 3.4L and 4.3L) applications -- will be introduced in early 2005.

"It appears that on some engines, the use of conventional plastic-and-rubber gaskets in combination with the more aggressive 'OAT' (Organic Acid Technology) engine coolants has caused a significant number of sealing-related issues for consumers and automotive service providers," said Fel-Pro Chief Engineer Jerry Rosenquist. "Our team has spent the past two years developing and testing a variety of gasket technologies that can survive in this very difficult operating environment. (Dex Cool for those forum members who might not know)

"Our new PermaDryPlus gasket is absolutely the best answer for millions of engines exhibiting sealing problems induced by aggressive coolant chemistries and engine-specific dynamic issues."

The new Fel-Pro PermaDryPlus gasket features a high-strength aluminized steel carrier that is edge molded and encapsulated with a proprietary fluoroelastomer (FKM) material. In addition, the new gasket features three separate sealing beads around coolant ports to ensure a long-lasting seal under any situation.

A key element of the Fel-Pro design, the new FKM material was specifically formulated by Federal-Mogul chemists to resist OAT coolants. "We ran our final dyno test for 612 hours and the gasket looked so good it was difficult to distinguish it from an untested part," Rosenquist said.

"The steel provides the strength needed to resist cracking and crushing, and the FKM provides exceptional fluid sealing under all conditions. This design solves the primary leakage issue everyone knows about as well as other concerns typical of engines that have entered the repair cycle.

"The consumer and service provider recognize the problem by the coolant spots that are left on the ground. Unfortunately, retorquing the manifold bolts simply causes additional damage to the carrier, making the leakage much worse," Rosenquist added. Coolant ultimately can leak into the engine oil, causing significant damage to internal components, he said.

Fel-Pro engineers tested several gasket technologies before identifying the new encapsulated design as the best solution, according to Rosenquist. "Our ultimate design is the right choice by any measure - strength, fluid sealability, corrosion resistance, affordability, and ease of installation."

Gregski 04-07-2018 12:45 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
4 Attachment(s)
so my Fel Pro MS98000T Intake Manifold Gasket Set arrived from Rock Auto

Gregski 04-07-2018 12:50 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
cleaned up the 12 foot counter top for to lay out all the bits as I take them off for this intake manifold swap project

I have no idea how this large counter top gets filled up with junk faster than I can blink an eye, the fact that it's empty is such an anomaly

this may be the first big truck project in the new house, "our" new house, since we finally bought a place last year and will not be moving this year, ha ha

Gregski 04-07-2018 12:59 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
2 Attachment(s)
now I learned this the hard way, so one of the things I like to do before yankin' the distributor now is to line up the Top Dead Center TDC mark at 0 and take a note of where the Rotor points to

(I find that removing the spark plugs makes it a whole lot easier to turn the engine over by hand - plus it don't hurt to read your spark plugs from time to time non either)

Now I'm too tired right now to explain why it don't be pointin' at the #1 spark plug I recon it's pointin' to where it's pointin' (more like at #2) on the account of my 15* or so degrees of initial advance or something like that

either way note where it points to and with this extra step of lining up the TDC mark I know that when or if things shift during this project I can get it all lined up again headache free


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