The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network (https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/index.php)
-   The 1973 - 1987 Chevrolet & GMC Squarebody Pickups Message Board (https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/forumdisplay.php?f=4)
-   -   Restoring Rusty (https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=645440)

Gregski 05-07-2016 09:27 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodyboat (Post 7585171)
This is because, by leaving those little ears off, GM was able to save a small fraction of a penny on each gross of caps. Then, by the time the savings were spread over the entire production run, GM was able to keep some $87.73. The shareholders should have been very pleased.



I've read through this thread a couple of times now and it's like reading a book. I hope that I'm not wrecking the thread somehow but, considering that this previous quote is genuinely from THIS very thread, I figured that I will take a chance.

Ok, so I'm really unenlightened when it comes to this stuff. I have a couple of questions - what is it that I'm trying to scratch and how do I know when the panels are ready to accept the paint? I took the panels off of my truck, cleaned at least one of them up really well with Simple Green because it was what I already had in the garage. In those areas where the panel, the one that I cleaned, is NOT chalky, my fingernail doesn't leave any sort of mark. But in the chalky areas, YUP! I do leave a mark. When I clean it a second or third time, there is no difference. What's up with this? Can you help?

the scratch test does just that it determines if the panel is ready for paint, we are not saying all panels can be saved, or painted only the ones that pass the scratch test, hope that helps, your panel may be passed it and ready for the trash can

Gregski 05-07-2016 09:37 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
4 Attachment(s)
pressure tested the cooling system next, and heard a hissing sound by the inlet hose (top driver side) there appears to be a tiny crack/leak there and another tiny one somewhere towards the passenger side on the bottom, not show stoppers, but this do place the radiator on the Parts Replacement List

Gregski 05-07-2016 09:42 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
Gentlemen I'll be brief:

NO THERMOSTAT

NO PROBLEM


DISCLAIMER: We are not going to run without one, this is just a great clue.


blazer2007 05-07-2016 10:08 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
did you try a high flow thermostat yet?

Gregski 05-07-2016 10:27 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by blazer2007 (Post 7585268)
did you try a high flow thermostat yet?

I have not, not yet, thank you for the suggestion, to be honest whichoo I have not heard of a high flowing unit, is that what they mean by a 180*F vs the stock 195*F? or is it something totally else

blazer2007 05-07-2016 10:46 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
It has a larger area for the water to flow through so is not so constricted,they are a little pricey $15 or so

Wgesnerjr 05-07-2016 09:27 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
After seeing that, I for one, would condemn the Duralast Thermostat. If the engine is that cool without a thermostat, I would have to think the AutoZombie part is not working correctly. It may be opening enough to not overheat, but not opening enough to get the temp where it needs to be.

I would try a better part. Maybe a Stant? Maybe a 160 or 185 degree just for some wiggle room.

Jake Wade 05-07-2016 09:32 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Get a 180 AC-Delco thermostat.

rich weyand 05-07-2016 09:46 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Stick with the stock 195, but get a quality unit. You want the engine to come up to normal operating temp. This helps a bunch of things, among them lubrication.

Gregski 05-08-2016 09:53 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
first I plan to test mine

then I intend to step up to a name brand one, and test that one before even installing it

next I think we may need to run a 180* or even a 160* F with the Vortec heads, only testing will tell

and finally theres that high flowing thermostat option, who knew this little guy had so much impact, (what a control freak) ha ha

as an FYI I will save drilling holes in the Thermostat as the last resort, lol

SkinnyG 05-08-2016 12:04 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
What kind of head gaskets did you use?

hatzie 05-08-2016 12:19 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
High flow thermostats would be the units like the 195F Stant 45359 SuperStat

To regulate coolant at roughly 195F the thermostat needs to be fully open at 200F and closed somewhere around 180F.
You don't want to run 160F thermostats in a daily driver. Fuel mileage and engine longevity will suffer. Normal coolant temp should run between 200F and 230F. This will keep the engine oil above the boiling point of water to boil off any condensation and unburnt fuel to be exhausted out through the PCV system... These temps will still keep the oil below the temps where it'll start to burn and coke up the engine and the combustion chamber will run at a fairly efficient temp.

The 1970's OEM temp gauge is a poorly calibrated guide at best. Only slightly better than a warning lamp because it gives you a heads up before you get to OMG IT'S TOO HOT. Most aftermarket gauges are little better.
If you really want to know what temps the engine is running you'll need a good quality infrared thermometer. The $30 Lowes, Home Despot, and Horrible Fright units don't qualify. You're going to spend over $70 for a decent one. My old Fluke cost over $130
There really is no reason to trust a 42 year old nail head sender. If it's a new unit it's likely either badly matched to your gauge or, if it's a Letric Limited unit, defective.

Gregski 05-08-2016 12:36 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by SkinnyG (Post 7586306)
What kind of head gaskets did you use?

these are the cylinder head gaskets I am using GM Chevrolet Performance part number 10105117 as per the GM turn key engine build specifications

rich weyand 05-08-2016 01:23 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hatzie (Post 7586323)
High flow thermostats would be the units like the 195F Stant 45359 SuperStat

To regulate coolant at roughly 195F the thermostat needs to be fully open at 200F and closed somewhere around 180F.
You don't want to run 160F thermostats in a daily driver. Fuel mileage and engine longevity will suffer. Normal coolant temp should run between 200F and 230F. This will keep the engine oil above the boiling point of water to boil off any condensation and unburnt fuel to be exhausted out through the PCV system... These temps will still keep the oil below the temps where it'll start to burn and coke up the engine and the combustion chamber will run at a fairly efficient temp.

The 1970's OEM temp gauge is a poorly calibrated guide at best. Only slightly better than a warning lamp because it gives you a heads up before you get to OMG IT'S TOO HOT. Most aftermarket gauges are little better.
If you really want to know what temps the engine is running you'll need a good quality infrared thermometer. The $30 Lowes, Home Despot, and Horrible Fright units don't qualify. You're going to spend over $70 for a decent one. My old Fluke cost over $130
There really is no reason to trust a 42 year old nail head sender. If it's a new unit it's likely either badly matched to your gauge or, if it's a Letric Limited unit, defective.

Agreed on keeping the 195 for the reasons stated. Also, oil viscosity varies with temperature, and you want to get the oil up to operating temperatures so it's fluid enough to provide good lubrication by getting into all the nooks and crannies.

The Harbor Freight infrared thermometer unit I have has actually been pretty accurate when checked against more substantial units. May vary unit to unit, but mine at least seems OK.

Agreed also on the sender units with one exception. American Autowire makes a 1513321 correct substitute, with the resistance curve matched to the 1978 and earlier gauges. Any other substitute will not match the gauge.

rusty76 05-08-2016 06:21 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
We used to use an infrared unit from HF while checking tire and rotor temps on the race car before switching to probes. The HF worked fine and was well calibrated against the probe long acre unit we used.

hatzie 05-09-2016 08:31 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rusty76 (Post 7586602)
We used to use an infrared unit from HF while checking tire and rotor temps on the race car before switching to probes. The HF worked fine and was well calibrated against the probe long acre unit we used.

I've had two. They were both pretty dodgy. Must be luck of the draw. Gloom despair and agony on me... :lol::lol::lol::lol:
The Fluke was pricy but It's been great since day one.

Gregski 05-09-2016 09:05 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
so tested the 1999 Suburban Valucraft thermostat rated for 195* F

it also don't open until 205*F

Gregski 05-09-2016 09:09 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
5 Attachment(s)
more importantly gauges showed up, we got a brand new Summit brand water temp gauge in green and a matching oil pressure Summit gauge also in green (we'll deal with that one later)

naturally it came with a 1/2" NPT adapter (would it kill em to send the 3/8ths?)

so it will be mounted in the water outlet initially than transplanted to the intake manifold driver side

Gregski 05-09-2016 09:10 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
What's in the big white box?

patience ODBI

Gregski 05-10-2016 12:03 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
2 Attachment(s)
alright so equipped with the brand new digital water temp gauge and sending unit it was time to go back to square one and install the 195* F thermostat back in to see how hot actually the truck runs, and so we did and guess what the guage never read above 199* F and we drove it hard for 30 minutes like we do in all our tests

by the way I love this new gauge it says a number and the word TEMP what more do you need, it is absolutely brilliant

but wait does it show the display in 7 different poser colors, absolutely NOT, and we love it that much more for it

the gauge took about 10 minutes to install and 9 of those minutes were spent looking for long enough cables to install it in the cabin, lol

black to truck ground

red to switched 12 volt power

blue to sending unit

purple (is a mickey mouse wire for dimming the gauges) no thanks for now

so while driving ie moving we were reading 194* F and while stopped at a red light we were reading 197* F

Gregski 05-10-2016 12:10 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by rich weyand (Post 7582507)
... Now, lots of SBCs run pretty cold, like mine. Low compression, torquer cam, runs cold as a witch's heart...

Rich I honestly did not believe that until the gauge without the thermostat read 150* F at idle while parked and dropped to 148* F while driving with the wind in its grille

Give this man a hand guys, he know what he talk about!

so I took out the thermostat and had to find out how hot or cool the engine runs without one, I mean we are troubleshooting here folks, we are learning, we are gathering information and our data must need be complete so that we can make an educated wild @ss guess at a solution, right?

Gregski 05-10-2016 12:15 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
4 Attachment(s)
judging from those numbers above the truck is fine, we are not running hot at all, I would say 190* to 220* F is a perfect range for an SBC, however since we know the Vortec heads are pronned to cracking (ask me how I know, LOL) we are gonna give a 180* F thermostat a try tomorrow

we bench tested it tonight, and it seems the most responsive out of all of them, opens at around 190* F

Gregski 05-10-2016 12:17 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
4 Attachment(s)
HOW YOU LIKE ME NOW?

... just added 3 inches to my street credit!!!

rich weyand 05-10-2016 01:13 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
See where that puts you in operating temperature when you drive around. You want to be in the 195 to 205 range for a street sbc. Note that cylinder and ring wear goes DOWN as operating temperature goes up. Also, low octane gasoline burns more completely as temps go up, so you get more mileage and better performance. I think the 180 will probably be too low, given how low your operating temps are without the thermostat.

And it goes without saying you should buy a good one. Lots of after-market thermostats are crap. Why not just use the ACDelco 12TP1E High-Flow 195? (The High-Flow 180 is 12TP1D.) Amazon.com: ACDelco 12TP1E Professional Engine... Amazon.com: ACDelco 12TP1E Professional Engine...

rich weyand 05-10-2016 01:15 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
BTW, I really like the look you got going in that engine compartment. Damn.

rich weyand 05-10-2016 01:45 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 7588157)
alright so equipped with the brand new digital water temp gauge and sending unit it was time to go back to square one and install the 195* F thermostat back in to see how hot actually the truck runs, and so we did and guess what the guage never read above 199* F and we drove it hard for 30 minutes like we do in all our tests
...
so while driving ie moving we were reading 194* F and while stopped at a red light we were reading 197* F

Went back and re-read this post. That's perfect right there.

Eraser475 05-10-2016 01:01 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
I love your writing style and build. Is that a 6" tall air filter?

Gregski 05-10-2016 01:12 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eraser475 (Post 7588596)
I love your writing style and build. Is that a 6" tall air filter?

thank you so much, I appreciate the feedback

6" air filter, are you insane bro? it's a modest 5" ha ha

have we tried to shut the hood yet? um no! more on why the hood is still off later

Eraser475 05-10-2016 02:20 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Haha, I was just curious since I made an aircleaner that accepts 6" tall air filters for my 6.2 Diesel, but then I couldnt find a 6" tall filter other than K&N. Since I dont like sucking dirt into my engine and think K&N filters are next to worthless, I ended up taking two 3" Wix paper filters and gluing them together for now.

I really enjoy the work you've done on the A833 transmission as well, since i was lucky enough to pick up an '82 K-10 6.2 Diesel that had one in it for $100. I'll be tinkeringnwith that over summer

Gregski 05-10-2016 03:24 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eraser475 (Post 7588673)
Haha, I was just curious since I made an aircleaner that accepts 6" tall air filters for my 6.2 Diesel, but then I couldnt find a 6" tall filter other than K&N. Since I dont like sucking dirt into my engine and think K&N filters are next to worthless, I ended up taking two 3" Wix paper filters and gluing them together for now.

Well that's what we call Hot Roddin' very resourceful and why else do you think they invented Crazy Glue?! well done mate

Gregski 05-10-2016 03:27 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eraser475 (Post 7588673)
I really enjoy the work you've done on the A833 transmission as well, since i was lucky enough to pick up an '82 K-10 6.2 Diesel that had one in it for $100. I'll be tinkering with that over summer

I am loving that transmission, what a difference of night and day vs the Granny Gear Muncie, on both ends, better 1st gear and a better 4th aka Overdrive

... please check out this link The Ultimate Mopar A-833 4-Speed Fix: Get Overdrive & Strength!, and I guess we will be taking those gear boxes to the next level together than

Gregski 05-10-2016 08:28 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
with it being 88* F outside today our water temp gauge rose to 212* F waranting at least a trial run of the 180* F T Stat waiting in the wings

rich weyand 05-10-2016 08:36 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Yeah, I'd rather see 210 on the high end. Also, having the hood off reduces temps a bit.

Gregski 05-10-2016 10:20 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
3 Attachment(s)
with the 180* F Duralast thermostat installed we was runnin' cool as a cucumber, gentlemen this is the way to go I think

for Extra Credit anything jumps out at you in the photo of this thermostat (hint: the other two did not have this and some people recommend DIYing it)

68Timber 05-10-2016 10:25 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Yep. I put one in all of mine. Glad you got it sorted out.

enaberif 05-10-2016 10:31 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
You would be referring to that small little brass pin. ;) Don't think your THAT sneaky sir.

Gregski 05-10-2016 11:44 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
yes gentlemen the 180* T stat comes with a 1/8th hole pre drilled I can't help but think of and compare this to the "designer" jeans with the pre torn holes in their knees that cost $80 bucks where regular good ol' fashioned Mexican Levis 505s cost only $20 lol

Gregski 05-10-2016 11:49 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
2 Attachment(s)
so then I thought, well with the thermostat issue sorted out lets put the bypass hose back on using my newly acquired 90* 1/2" NPT to 3/4" hose fitting (look at that I speak National Pipe Thread, ha ha)

and oh boy was this a series of headaches which I still have to sort out

first the darn 90* coupling would not screw into the intake manifold cause it would hit the intake manifold bolt, so The Greg removed that bolt, hey what's more important a good looking bypass hose or a torqued down to spec intake manifold (and no intake leak) you guessed it, that bolt came right out

well only for the silly 90* elbow to now hit the intake manifold itself, oh boy, fun, fun, fun

I think tomorrow I will pick up some sort of raiser / extension thingie for this bad boy, and or try a 45* coupling instead

Gregski 05-10-2016 11:55 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
not willing to admit defeat I tried screwing that 90* fitting into the water pump, surely it has to go in there unobstructed, WRONG

now, first it hit the cover on the back of the water pump, then it hit the bolt loop thingie, great won't work here either, ok, I hope the 45* one works more better tomorrow

Gregski 05-11-2016 12:04 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
3 Attachment(s)
surely there's gotta be something I can fix to finish the day on a high note, aha I remembered there was a disturbance in the Force when I removed the core support and now the driver side headlight needed mending

I wasn't planning on soldiering (sp) that blade connector back on but when I bought a brand new Philips H6024 Standard replacement light bulb like I did a year ago for the other side (you know with the longer blades that will actually work in our trucks) I noticed that for no good reason at all Philips changed their headlights now it says PHILIPS in the front instead of HALOGEN like on the box, like the one on the other side so what's the point of installing the new one, what's the difference if the old one says ATLAS they still won't match... these are the pesky silly things that drive The Greg mad!!!

I can just see that Philips Senior Management Marketing Meeting now...

I'll tell you Bob why the round 7 inch headlights ain't selling...

Why is that Bob?

Cause they say HALOGEN on the front!!!

What?

You heard me, they say HALOGEN so nobody is buying them, I bet if we change that to lets see something like PHILIPS, they will sell like hot cakes!!!

That is genius Marve go on and get it changed


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:15 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright 1997-2022 67-72chevytrucks.com