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-   -   Restoring Rusty (https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=645440)

Gregski 05-02-2016 11:59 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hatzie (Post 7579712)
I would put the temp sender in the intake manifold not the water neck. If the thermostat doesn't open you could overheat before you get a trouble indication.

Yes I concur, I am not a big fan of where the sending unit sits now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hatzie (Post 7579712)
The threaded hole you plugged directly under the radiator hose on the LH front side of the intake is a good location or you could drill and tap the unthreaded boss next to the heater hose.

I plan on getting a forward facing water outlet so that I can install the sending unit on the driver side and clear the upper radiator hose. Not a fan of putting any more holes in that intake. ha ha

Jaysonb 05-02-2016 02:16 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Why not put the water temp sending unit in the head? I noticed that the temp sending unit on my 80 4.1 was 3/8 npt.

y5mgisi 05-02-2016 03:57 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
I dig the new look.

68Timber 05-02-2016 04:02 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rich weyand (Post 7579335)
I *added* a second high-beam switch to the left of the original, but this one is momentary. I connected it to the contacts on the windshield wiper cam. When you push the switch, the wipers run. When you let off on it, they finish the current swipe and park. No more rooching around on the dark dash looking for the wiper switch while driving one handed in the rain.

I love home spun upgrades like that.

hatzie 05-02-2016 04:07 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaysonb (Post 7580024)
Why not put the water temp sending unit in the head? I noticed that the temp sending unit on my 80 4.1 was 3/8 npt.

Not as simple as you think.

The 3/8" NPT tang senders have a different resistance range than the 1/2" NPT Nail Head senders.
You could swap in a matching 1979/1980 or later temp gauge along with the 3/8" NPT tang sender.

hatzie 05-02-2016 04:48 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 7579891)
Yes I concur, I am not a big fan of where the sending unit sits now.



I plan on getting a forward facing water outlet so that I can install the sending unit on the driver side and clear the upper radiator hose. Not a fan of putting any more holes in that intake. ha ha

Looks like there's enough clearance right now.

Gregski 05-02-2016 05:13 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hatzie (Post 7580158)
Not as simple as you think.

The 3/8" NPT tang senders have a different resistance range than the 1/2" NPT Nail Head senders.
You could swap in a matching 1979/1980 or later temp gauge along with the 3/8" NPT tang sender.

Exactly

Gregski 05-02-2016 05:14 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hatzie (Post 7580210)
Looks like there's enough clearance right now.

not really, that pic is deceiving

Gregski 05-02-2016 05:19 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
New Clue: truck will not idle below 750 RPM, even with the idle speed screw all the way out, timing set at 12* BTDC

Gregski 05-02-2016 09:38 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
3 Attachment(s)
OK, back to basics

went out and bought a Vacuum gauge at NAPA for $25 bucks this should help set the idle mixture screw on the Holley 4160 carb

so following a Super Chevy article (love that magazine) we set the idle to 850 RPMs that should give us a stable vacuum reading

SkinnyG 05-02-2016 11:02 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
That sucks.

(gufaw, gufaw, gufaw, hyuck, hyuck, hyuck)

Gregski 05-03-2016 12:19 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
so we hook the timing light up and the vacuum gauge to a non ported manifold vacuum off the base of the 4160 carb and the needle won't sit still, it jumps spastically between 15 and 20 PSI, see video

we bottom out the idle mixture screws one on each side of this carb (it only has two) and then turn them out 1.5 turns as per Holley's instructions

than we play with them screwing them all the way in slowly then backing them out to about 2.5 turns, and that pesky needle keeps dancing and won't stabalize

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ry9ShldWpUg

Gregski 05-03-2016 12:31 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
4 Attachment(s)
so at this point I am thinking vacuum leak, so I disconnect anything that may be sucking vacuum, brake booster, PVC, etc. and plug those ports up with some spare hoses and bolts in them to clog them up, still no change, needle keeps dancing

so I remove the carb and notice I got a 1/4" spacer but it ain't sandwiched between base gaskets, (not sure if it must be, but something tells me it ought to should) so I shoot over to the parts house and buy 3 different types of gaskets (two of each)

a 54

a 55

and a 57

hey, who knew? right?

Gregski 05-03-2016 12:36 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
4 Attachment(s)
Now Silver-hair was by this time very tired, and he went downstairs to the garage, and there he found three Holley carb gaskets. He tried the largest one, which belonged to the Big Bear, and found it too big; then he tried the middle-sized gasket, which belonged to the Middle-sized Bear, and he found it too small; then he tried the smallest one, which belonged to the Little Bear, and found it just right, so he laid it down upon the intake manifold, and put the carboretor on it

Gregski 05-03-2016 12:41 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
well Donkey Kong, even with a single brand new base gasket between the intake and the carb (no spacer for now, keeping it simple) we got pretty much the same results

so then we found this Holley video - it claims an ignition problem, check spark plugs, plug wires, distributor, and coil



How To Diagnose Common Engine Problems With A Vacuum Gauge

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrnzD7PgoHI



Gregski 05-03-2016 01:27 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
well it's been like Amateur Hour over here on Team Shake 'n Bake I tell you, check out these spark plug gaps, this is rediculous

5 at .040" like they should ought to be was

2 too big, bigger than .045"

and 1 too small, way too small, about .030"

this team needs to shape up I tell you what Stu

OBSERVATION: 1-6 look the same blackish/border line rich, 7-8 look lighter, a bit leaner

Gregski 05-03-2016 01:32 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
2 Attachment(s)
and to add in salt to injury, check out how high my feeler gauge goes up to, ha ha, .035 man GM Gods sure have a sense of humor - had to resort to the goofy wire style one I swore I would never find a need for, lol

Woodyboat 05-03-2016 01:49 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 7071087)
... I wipe it with my finger, and it looks like trans fluid, feels like trans fluid, smells like trans fluid, and tastes like trans fluid.

WOW! I'm sure glad you didn't step in it!!

If you haven't figured this out yet, I'm reading the entire thread from start to finish. I love it.

Jake Wade 05-03-2016 07:17 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
I would run through the valve adjustment again, it is acting like they are a tad too tight.

enaberif 05-03-2016 08:35 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Spark plug gap on a HEI Chevy should be .045 as .030 was for a points system. Yes using the wrong gap will make a vehicle run like absolute crap. When I put plugs in my truck they were gapped for .030 and I could not get it to run properly no matter what.

Also doing vac gauge measurements I am pretty sure it should be on manifold vacuum not ported vacuum as should your distributors vacuum advance to get optimal performance.

blazer2007 05-03-2016 09:53 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
I was just curious why the engine would overheat with the heater lines plugged,my big block is capped and it runs fine.Is your style engine have a different water gallery set up that would cause that?

Oberon67 05-03-2016 09:59 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
I been looking at your photos... y'all gonna have to change that truck's name.

Gregski 05-03-2016 10:24 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodyboat (Post 7580782)
WOW! I'm sure glad you didn't step in it!!

If you haven't figured this out yet, I'm reading the entire thread from start to finish. I love it.

ha ha, I said that, hmmm, thank you so much and enjoy the read

Gregski 05-03-2016 10:26 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake Wade (Post 7580834)
I would run through the valve adjustment again, it is acting like they are a tad too tight.

Hi Jake, I agree about the valves needing an adjustment, not sure if they is too tight, as I am not that good at diagnosing them, but I will definitely check them today and report back

I do hear a tick and to me it sounds like one may be loose sounds like it is a comin' from the passenger side, here's the absolutely crazy thing though, it sounded exactly precisely the same before I did the top end swap/job, in other words the old heads aka the old valve train was generating the exact same tick (lets just keep that in mind as if it may turn out to be something else, something silly, like a bolt sticking out and tapping a firewall or something crazy like that)

Gregski 05-03-2016 10:35 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by enaberif (Post 7580887)
Spark plug gap on a HEI Chevy should be .045 as .030 was for a points system. Yes using the wrong gap will make a vehicle run like absolute crap. When I put plugs in my truck they were gapped for .030 and I could not get it to run properly no matter what.

interesting, we are going to try all on .040 as per the GM Performance Spec sheet, but may bump it up to .045 as you recommend if needed

Quote:

Originally Posted by enaberif (Post 7580887)
Also doing vac gauge measurements I am pretty sure it should be on manifold vacuum not ported vacuum as should your distributors vacuum advance to get optimal performance.

it is

Gregski 05-03-2016 10:37 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by blazer2007 (Post 7580959)
I was just curious why the engine would overheat with the heater lines plugged,my big block is capped and it runs fine.Is your style engine have a different water gallery set up that would cause that?

my best guess is that something is wrong, we have not truly found the source of the problem yet, I agree that it should run without the heater core, and without the bypass hose from the intake to the water pump

let me get passed this vacuum issue and then I may try a different water pump, and maybe a more than single core radiator after that, maybe go aluminium

Gregski 05-03-2016 10:50 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon67 (Post 7580967)
I been looking at your photos... y'all gonna have to change that truck's name.

ha ha, not just yet, we still have to tackle the kick panels inside the cab and pull the dash completely out to see what lurks behind it (Winter Project?)

hatzie 05-03-2016 11:44 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by enaberif (Post 7580887)
Spark plug gap on a HEI Chevy should be .045 as .030 was for a points system. Yes using the wrong gap will make a vehicle run like absolute crap. When I put plugs in my truck they were gapped for .030 and I could not get it to run properly no matter what.

Also doing vac gauge measurements I am pretty sure it should be on manifold vacuum not ported vacuum as should your distributors vacuum advance to get optimal performance.

I used to run .060 gap with a Jacobs Mileage Master multi spark setup on my 1985 5.0L C10. She ran nice and smooth. That or an MSD6AL is about the only aftermarket coil system I would use because it doesn't bork the stock ignition module. The mileage gains were not enough to make the price worthwhile.

Run the gaps as wide as you can get away with it lights the fuel better. .045 is a good number for stock HEI with a new Delco coil and Ignition module.

Gregski 05-03-2016 11:48 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
well, gapped the plugs this morning to .040 (for starters) and warmed him up for 10 minutes, and then tested with the vacuum gauge again, and no change needle is still jumpy, dang

valve adjustment coming up next after my dentist appointment

68post 05-03-2016 11:52 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Dentist appt. !! Don't take it out on poor Rusty, he has to be worried now.

jwilson645 05-03-2016 11:52 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 7580778)
and to add in salt to injury, check out how high my feeler gauge goes up to, ha ha, .035 man GM Gods sure have a sense of humor - had to resort to the goofy wire style one I swore I would never find a need for, lol

Can't you combine the .035 and .010 to get to your .045? That's the way I was shown by my dad when I was learning engine stuff.

Gregski 05-03-2016 11:56 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 68post (Post 7581072)
Dentist appt. !! Don't take it out on poor Rusty, he has to be worried now.

thought about it, but they have some heavy lube on them so that probably will add thickness to it, so I just used that wire wheel one, I may pick up a proper feeler gauge set today, I like decent measuring implements when I can afford them

Gregski 05-03-2016 12:14 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 68post (Post 7581072)
Dentist appt. !! Don't take it out on poor Rusty, he has to be worried now.

Ha, ha, Rusty is about to meet the 3 lbs sledge if he don't shape up real quick!!!

rich weyand 05-03-2016 01:16 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
What vacuum can are you running? That can make the engine throb like that, although that is usually on the low end of vacuum, not the high end where you are.

Gregski 05-03-2016 01:26 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rich weyand (Post 7581171)
What vacuum can are you running? That can make the engine throb like that, although that is usually on the low end of vacuum, not the high end where you are.

hi Rich, what can are you talking about? if the one on the dizzy than I am not using that during the test, its like setting initial timing, no vacuum advance

rich weyand 05-03-2016 01:58 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
No, it's not like initial timing. You need to tune the carb with the vacuum advance hooked up. There's your problem. You are running a way-too-late spark.

enaberif 05-03-2016 02:45 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 7581182)
hi Rich, what can are you talking about? if the one on the dizzy than I am not using that during the test, its like setting initial timing, no vacuum advance

1) Initial timing = vacuum advanced unplugged

2) Mechanical Advance = How much your distributor pulls with weights and springs

3) Total Timing = Initial + Mechanical @ 2500-3000 rpm

4) Carb tuning is 1-3 setup PLUS vacuum advance

Vacuum advance is there to help with idle and cruise and can help with MPG

Gregski 05-03-2016 04:49 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rich weyand (Post 7581212)
No, it's not like initial timing. You need to tune the carb with the vacuum advance hooked up. There's your problem. You are running a way-too-late spark.

Koogle Mooglie, lemme re test than, and get back atcha all

Gregski 05-03-2016 04:53 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
3 Attachment(s)
decided to do a compression test before doing a valve adjustment, it's always good to have a baseline

man I was so bummed to find out that my trusty ol' compression gauge was not working, it read 0 for the first 4 cylinders

so rented one from AutoZone for $40 bucks (which they refund you if and when you return the tool) before Pontiac Mike told me to check the Shrader valve on my old hose, and sure as sheet the cheapo tiny valve is bad, so that tells me my gauge may be good after all

Gregski 05-03-2016 04:55 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
man my cylinder pressure looks great, #1 and #2 were initially low but retested great

I always like to test twice once 1 through 8 and later on after re warming up the vehicle 8 through 1


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