Re: Restoring Rusty
 

My cam is 192/200°@050, with 108°LSA. I run 16° base, with 20° mechanical, and 15° vacuum at the manifold.

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

so a quick update, well it turns out I am not a shmuck and the distributor was in there correctly, see the before and after pics of when I re stabbed it today, they look identical and that's the best way it goes to be at #1 TDC, I even took the driver side valve cover off and spun the engine around and watched the #1 intake valve go down and back up, etc.

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

without my Air Fuel Ratio since the O2 sensors went on a frits and both read 22.4/22.4 I felt like a fish out of the water, but I tried to tune what I could, so I checked the float levels and they were a bit too high, so I adjusted them down a bit so that fuel only dripped out when I hip bumped the fender of the truck, I also screwed the idle mixture screws all the way in and watched the truck die, then I backed them both out 1/2 a turn plus it wanted another 1/4 turn out, that seemed to make things a tiny bit better I think

then I spent a couple hours fandangling with those BOSCH LSU 4.9 oxygen sensors and, calibrated them and re calibrated them, then cleaned them with some brake cleaner and a gold color bristle wire brush and finally one of them woke up and decided to work

Now I had some feedback, so I took it for a spin and Idle mixture was good in the upper 13s, but WOT was lean high 14s sometimes 15s, so I think it's time to go to bigger jets

currently I am running 62 primary jets and 65 secondary jets, I believe the carb comes stock with a 64/69 jet combo so I may inch my way up to that, maybe try 63/67 first

this would make sense as we now have two more hungry cylinders to feed!

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

I noticed that you didnt use a vortec specific intake gasket. Any reason for that?? Does the paper gasket seal just as good?? I only ask because I'll be replacing mine soon and the redesigned vortec intake gaskets are too expensive!!

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

The rotor is and was in the right place, but you ran out of adjustment in the distributor. Moving it over a tooth puts the body in a more adjustment-friendly location, and you should be able to get some more base timing (I'd like to see at least 15° base with your cam, maybe more).

All your fueling is going to be dependent on your timing - if you're not running the same base timing as you were before, your fueling will be off. Get your base timing back to where it was, and you ~shouldn't~ have to muck about too much (other than you might have a lot more vacuum and compression now).

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

You mean LEAN, right? WOT should be around 13, and it's an AIR/FUEL ratio, so 14 or 15 means the air is high, which is lean.

Bigger jets is right, though. Adds more fuel, which is in the denominator, so it brings the number DOWN.

For cruise, low 14s is right. What's your cruise reading?

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

Yes, dope, my bad.

yes I am shooting for 13s

My cruise currently is 16/17 I like it in the 15s especially since I didn't like seeing those white exhaust valves, but you may be right I may need to bring it down to the 14s

just need to relearn what this new(ish) (healthier) engine likes now, and the seasons change aint helping in comparing apples to apples as the cold air is much denser, and I swear Sacramento likes to go from the high 90s F to the 50s F over night this time of the year

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

I believe I am, it's the Fel-Pro 1255 part number, and this is what Summit says:

"Designed for GM Vortec, ZZ4, Edelbrock E-Tech cylinder heads. End rail seals are not included. Installation to be done with a bead of silicone at the manifold ends. Dual bolt pattern. No exhaust crossover openings. Not for use on 1982-85 fuel injection. Gaskets fit many O.E. and aftermarket heads."

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

14.7 is the stoichiometric value, in which all the air and all the gas take part in the combustion event. None left over of either. So a cruise in the 15s is OK. 16/17 is getting pretty thin for my taste, but some people like it for the mileage. I aimed at 14-14.5 in cruise, which runs a little cooler, I think, than going quite so lean.

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

One other complication to note. The number of oxygen molecules in a given volume of air varies with temperature. So when it gets cold out, the mixture numbers will run leaner, and when hot, they will run richer.

I have the thermac air cleaner on my truck, so the inlet temperature is always about the same, winter or summer. BUT, when I get on it, the vacuum drop will open the air door and pull in ambient air. So I run my secondaries with an A/FR of about 12.5 in 70 degree F air. In the winter, that number will be much higher when the air door opens, but I don't want to have to swap needles twice a year.

Fuel injection compensates for all of this stuff on the fly. This is just a carb consideration, particularly since you aren't running the thermac air cleaner. Going into the winter, lower numbers now would be better, because they will climb as the temperature falls.

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

Well you was right about the price, I saw the same one that I bought for $39 on their website so I called them up and asked if they would price match their own site and they said bring it in and we'll see what we can do. So today I drove in with my Chinese wrench in hand and got $32 bucks credited back to my account, nice, the new wrench is sorta worth the $39 bucks I paid for it, makes it easier to swallow

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

Status Report: so after rejetting the carb to the 63/67 primary/secondary jets the truck runs better, I drove it in to work today again then ran over to SEARS, but its still lean at WOT, so tonight after it cools off (the engine not the weather, ha ha) we will rejet it to 64/69 the default jets the carb would have come with new

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

I was going to use fel-pro ms98000t, but if those 1255's seal just as good i'll use those instead. I like that price a lot better.

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

That is a good gasket but I think it's only available in a kit, which is pretty expensive if you just want that gasket. Stock Suburbans run them, see below

Re: Restoring Rusty - Engine Ratlle
 

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

Wow that sucks
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Re: Restoring Rusty
 

Yup, big time!

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

Well I strapped on my ol' exhaust manifolds back on with the ol' LMC Truck dual exhaust with the generic turbo mufflers and the rattle is still there, so the good news is it wasn't my Hooker headers leaking again, the bad news is we don't know what it is, and it could be ugly, something in the bottom end

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

unplugged one spark plug at a time and started and ran the engine to see if the rattle noise goes away and it does not, darn it, tomorrow the oil pan comes off and we take a deeper dive

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

In your last trip into your engine did you check the condition of the main bearings when you replaced the rod bearings? Did you check the rod bearing clearance when you were there? In most cases people have the crank polished when they do bearings.

I was surprised to see you deglazed the cylinder bores with the crank still in and replace the rod bearings without polishing the crank or check the makings (maybe you did but didn't tell us?). At this point you would have been farther ahead to send the block to the shop to get cleaned up inside and out, had crank turned or just polished and had them put new cam bearings in. Then you'd have a whole new motor. Sorry for the set back, I know how that can be. Knowing which corner to cut can be tricky.

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

Good Luck.. Hopefully it's something simple

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

Make sure the rod caps were put on the correct way.

The two "tangs" that notch the bearings in go together.

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

True but I didn't have $1,500 to spend and I wanted to do the work myself or at least see if I could

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

Yes sir, I payed attention when I took them off and I noticed that there was a sharp pointy ridge or edge on the driver side bearing caps all pointing to the front of the truck and the opposite was true on the passenger side so I made sure I put them back in, in the same fashion, I even double checked after torquing down the cap bolts to spec

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

I'll tell you this much I will be pissed and relieved at the same time if I just find my 9/16ths six point socket rattling in the oil pan (I'm looking at you Craftsman you know you love to get lost all the time) ha ha

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

Did you change the oil pump while you had the pan off?

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

No, cause it is brand new I did that about 6 months ago already, new pump new pickup screen etc.

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

These notches, in green. You can see the shadow of the notch on the rod.

Though it sounds like you put the caps on correctly anyway.

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

Well it's probably not needed then... :lol::lol:

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

You bought standard size bearings IIRC. Could it be possible the rod journals are already 0.010 under and you bought the wrong bearings? If you have the old bearings check the backside and see if they are 10 under bearings.

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

I forgot about that, but I wondered about that too when you bought the bearings and mentioned they were standard size. Did you mic the crank to see if it'd been turned?

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

Originals were stock

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

Of course not, ha ha, this is a dingleberry rebuild, if I was to do it all over again I would have re used the old bearings and just changed the rings, oh well, live and learn

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

Status Update: so dropped the oil pan and did not get killed by any falling shrapnel, so that's good

managed to pull out the first four bearing sets (to do the others I need to rotate the crank and things will get mangled or the pistons will have to be pushed up out of the way) so we do half at a time

#1 more wear than #3 and #4 too loose to snap back in to the cap

#2 more wear than #3 and #4 too loose to snap back in to the cap

#3 normal wear, snaps back in to the cap

#4 normal wear, snaps back in to the cap

as you know The Greg only blames himself or at least himself first, but remember how my torque wrench gave up the ghost while torquing the cylinder heads, well guess what the last thing I torqued prior to that was my bearing caps, so there I'm looking at you Craftsman

so I am going to get two new bearings and pop them in to #1 and #2 and torque them down with my brand new China made Craftsman torque wrench

Gentlemen, I have seen many opposite recommendations on how to install the new bearnigs, from clean them with brake fluid, wipe them down and install them dry, to use engine oil, to goop some engine assembly lube on them, so what are your favorite ways to install these bad boys? the last time The Greg just used engine oil

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

Clean them with brake kleen then use engine oil or assembly lube, your choice, can't go wrong with either. Dry is not a good idea IMO. Also not checking that you have the right bearing could mean another trip back into the engine and another replacement. Plastigauge is a sound method for checking journal clearance. How about those main bearings? If the rod bearings needed replacing then the mains did also. Might want to check then while your in there.

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

I'll be captain obvious here... They need to be throughly clean as well as the anti-rotation indents in the rods and caps clear of crud.
You also need to be sure the oil holes from the main journals to the rod journals are clear of crud. If you get any siginifcant crud from the rod journal feed holes you may need to pull the block so you can remove the crank.
Install them with assembly lube not dry.

If the cam or main bearings are loose the oil pressure will drop.

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

Rod bearings did not need replacing the rings did

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

Why did you replace them then, just because you were there when honing?. The only thing you did in the lower end was replace those bearings. If you need 10 under bearing and put standard bearings in then that could explain your sound. Also having one or more not torqued properly would too... just saying, easy check. GL, hope your figure it out.

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

thank you all for your feedback, coming up are some visuals

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

yes the old ones were out so I thought might as well put new ones in, it's like when you take the old water pump off to do the timing set, you put a new water pump back on, even if the old one was still good, just cause it's such a P.I.A.