Re: Restoring Rusty
 

thank you so much, excellent detail, I hope to hear from conventional fan folks as well

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

bumped the initial timing to 16* and with manifold vacuum hooked up to the canister on the distributor the engine is set to idle at 850 RPM and it pulls a perfect (steady) 20 inches of Mercury (that is as close to perfect as you can get) I honestly don't see my camshaft as much of a performance cam, its moderate at best

I don't think this will impact my engine running hot (notice I did not call it overheating) but only a test drive or two will tell, and for that we will have to wait until tomorrow

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

On temperature, I have an original guage, and a reproduction sender to match the original. Note: not a substitution gauge, a reproduction gauge with the same resistance curve as the original. American Autowire did it for the Corvette restorers, whose gauges read in degrees. It drove them nuts not to have them read right. It turns out they use the same resistance sender as squares up through (I think) 79.

The full details on senders are in this thread: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=630399

My gauge now reads just shy of straight up when everything is operating normally.

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

OK, so you're getting steady vacuum and idle now with the vacuum can hooked up. Good.

I went looking around, because I thought stick shift idle was supposed to be lower than auto trans idle, but it looks like I misrecalled. You look good to go right there.

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

Thank you very much Rich, so we are aiming at West of middle.

I pulled the trigger on this gorgeous Summit brand digital water temp gauge SUM-G2984-1G for $35 and its accompanying sender SUM-G2984-1S for an additional $10, and knowing Summit they may arrive today.

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

If your sender matches your gauge, yes. The problem is that a lot of senders were replaced with book substitutes after 1513321 was obsoleted, and the book substitutes don't have the same resistance curve. Getting the true reproduction (see pointer in thread I posted above) will guarantee the gauge reads correctly.

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

so took the truck for a standard 30 minute test drives now that I think I have the timing dialed in, gentlemen the truck sounds good to me, it sounds like a fine tuned Swiss Tractor, lol, no seriously it do sound good, but it still ranned hot

when I got home I felt the radiator cap and it didn't feel too hot, so I did what you aint supposed to do, unscrewed it, then I shoeved the wives favorite turkey thermometer in it, and it read 164* F

now I know and you know that I know that, that's in the radiator and not in the cylinder head or not in the intake I get it, but heck we got some sort of a reference digit, know what I mean bro

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

Gentlemen sometimes you just gotta MacGyver the snot out of something (honk if you be old enuff to know who MacGyver useta be) ha ha

so we used our digital thermometer as a baseline control, we decided to boil some hot water and we stuck the 1974 water temp sending unit in the pot as well, we were making Vortec Soup, both were suspended in the water and not touching the bottom hot plate, the sending unit was connected to the gauge with its green wire and its housing grounded to the battery negative terminal to ensure proper and reliable ground (ignore the color red wire, an aligator clip is an aligator clip)

brilliant if you ask me

so with the truck off but the key in the on position (not start, just on) as the water begun boiling the digital control gauge started climbing, our truck gauge didn't for a while, it was a bit slower to react (a bit discouraging at first, but then...) then it started to move

I recorded the first notch as 190(ish)* F

I recorded the middle notch as 210(ish)* F

since water boils at around 212 that was as hot as we could get and the wife caught me using her pot so I couldn't add no Antifreeze to it, ha ha

but we might have some reference digits now

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

Very nice test here. Don't trust anything. It kinda reminds me of my engineer days.

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

Thank you, I thought about these numbers and realized we must remember that the cooling system in a vehicle is under pressure perhaps 15 PSI which would make water not boil until it reached 250* F and those numbers would change again if we added Antifreeze / Coolant

good stuff, good to know / remember

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

my reading comprehension is bad. you already a running the test i was typing out.

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

Well we added Antifreeze and saw no change, so it was time to try the Snake Oil under duress mind you, ha ha. We opted for the hy-per lube product for two reasons 1. it was on sale and B. it claimed to run even cooler than that Bed Wetter stuff

RESULT: no change and no surprise there at all

This is where I remind you that The Greg is no fan of Snake Oils, he has tried, Seafoam to pass SMOG (epic fail), stop a leak (not), valve chatter eliminator (wrong answer), and now this makes water wetter nonsense, The Greg is a firm believer in you find the problem, you understand the problem, you fix the problem the right way. No magic potion in the bottle is going to do that for you, it will make your wallet skinnier though.

FUN FACT: on the back of this bottle it reads (and this underlines my point / stubbornness for using water) "Using less than 50% anti-freeze will improve temperature reduction." so in my mind that says, use more water to run cooler

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

in other news we replaced our 60 foot speedometer cable with an 80 foot one and now we have a working speedometer with the new overdrive transmission, this was yet another reason to go with the New Process 833 unit as it uses mechanical speedo drive, so you just screw on your speedo cable and off you go

Is it accurate? we don't know yet, we shall calibrate it soon enuff

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

also did our first oil change,

Wait What? You were running the break in oil all this time?

whoa easy tiger, it's perfectly acceptable to drive around for about 50 miles or so

got talked out of Rotella and talked into 20W-50 with the Lucas Zinc additive, so I went for that in hopes it would eliminate my ticking, which it has not

Went with a BOSCH oil filter cause it was black. What? You don't pick your oil filters based on color? Silly Wabbit.

What? You don't know about the trick of raising one side of your truck to get the last 1/2 quart of dirty oil out? I kid you not I started doing this on my '97 Tahoe cause the dope who designed the oil pan decided to put the drain plug 1/2 an inch above sea level, ha ha, our trucks have it a bit lower and a bit better, but still, more oil comes out as you lift that sucker

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

maybe I haven't been following along well enough but have you replaced your radiator cap? what psi is it rated at and would a different psi help and what is your actual coolant to water ratio have you measured it? Pretty soon here we may be looking into a new radiator :crazy:

I'm still betting the tick is a valve train issue...

Maybe an exhaust leak at the header flange?

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

as I sat there parked, munchin' on my delicious Ultimate Cheeseburger from Jack in the Box, during yet another test drive, I took a note of the oil pressure at idle, if the notches are even than they go 15 - 30 - 45 - 60 PSI

so at 800(ish) RPM at idle my oil pressure be at 7.5 PSI

is that good or bad? I don't know. Is that even accurate? Again don't know if we can trust that gauge.

I do see it raise to 30 PSI when I am in 1st gear and stay there when I shift to 2nd gear, I think I is at about 1500 RPM during those moments

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

10 psi for every 1000rpm is what I was always told for a SBC

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

I have not thought of that, but a new cap would not hurt, good tip.

yes, I am less than 50/50 water to coolant, somewhere around 40/70 I would say

not crazy at all I was window shopping on LMC Truck's website today for the 3 row radiator, actually I looked at Brothers and Classic Parts websites too, but i am a little short like $300 bucks short, ha ha

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

hmmm, so 7.5 at 750 RPM is spot on, but I'm twice the formula at 1500 RPM when its pumping 30 PSI and I swear I have seen it pump 45 PSI at 2000 RPM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

maybe, I asked my son (he has a good ear, and I aint sendin' him to piano lessons for nothin') I stood him in front of the rig, and I said listen for a tickin' sound can you hear it, and he walked over to the driver side, and then he walked over to the passenger side and said it's coming from the passenger side, and he started to go in the house...

and I said hold on you young whipper snapper can you be more specific, and he leaned in and he listened to the back of the motor, and he listened to the front of the motor, and then he listened to the back again and said it's coming from the back, (as in closest to the firewall on the passenger side)

and then he started to go in the house, and I said could you be more specific, and he said "Dad, I don't wanna get burned, or hurt, or cut, or dead, that enjin is hot"

and so I let him go

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

the general has been known to have problems with gauges being accurate and if that's the case yours may be off a percentage but who can really tell without tests and a second known accurate gauge

Someone else may have something else to chime in for a better number that's just some old trick I remember my uncle telling my stepdad one late night in the garage

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

And I would have said no you get back here until at least 2 of them things happen to you :lol:

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

question is was there beer involved, no beer, can't trust the recommendation, LOL

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

do we consider PBR beer or water? ;):chevy:

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

Time to start a WATERGATE commiseration post:


Dang found this one in our own back yard:
Engine Overheating with Vortec Heads
...The temp gauge in the car is showing above 220...


Still having overheating issues (vortec swap guys help!)
... Could it be a communication error between the 76 gauges and the newer temp sender unit I had to get, due to size differences?...


Newly rebuilt 350 with Vortec heads - overheating
...The main issue I have is it runs for 10 minutes or so and then starts to get warm...


Vortec heads running hot! Need HELP ASAP!
I just put some 350 Vortec heads on my 94 block, and the problems are...


VORTEC HEADS: BELIEVE THE HYPE?!?
Just remember that the Vortech heads are not drilled and do not have internal water pump bypass passage like the older small blocks. This is the bottom hole in the block under the lower water pump bolt on the right hand side. Without that bypass, you can have overheat issues. You simply need to run an external bypass like a big block on any small block using Vortec heads from the front of the intake near the thermostat to the water pump. Without it, there is not enough circulation of hot water passed the thermostat to make it operate correctly and the heads will get hot and the thermostat won't open soon enough.

Look at any stock Vortec engine and you will notice there is an external hose from the intake to the water pump. You need that external bypass on any engine you use Vortec heads and a thermostat.

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

OK bud, this had me crackin' up and I must give credit where the credit is due, I have not heard that expression before "the General" I like it, I can dig it, I must use it

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

Couple things:

Drilling the thermostat is NOT an acceptable alternative to the external bypass. Will it work? Yes, maybe, sorta. Will your heads still be at risk of overheating and cracking? Yes. Will it keep the thermostat from regulating engine temperature properly? Yes, in both directions. When the thermostat is closed, the heads will run hotter at the double exhaust valves than they should because not enough circulation within the block, AND the overall engine temp will not come up to proper operating temp because the radiator is partially in-circuit when it shouldn't be, costing you mileage, performance, and increased engine wear.

This unit actually works. http://www.harborfreight.com/non-con...ing-61894.html You can use it to measure the temp of the thermostat housing to read engine temp. You can also use it to read the inlet nipple on the radiator, to see if your thermostat is opening at the proper temp. The thermostat nipple will run about 140* until the thermostat opens, and then jump to about 195*. That is, assuming you do the coolant bypass correctly and don't half-ass it by drilling the thermostat.

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

Just thinkin.
Have You looked at thermostat? I can't remember if you have tested its operation in the pot of water. Specifically does it open, at what temp and if does; all the way? even if it's new, it might be defective.

Another thought, why not use a lower temp thermostat. Being that I live in HOTlanta, we regularly use a 160 thermostat since our summer days can be over 100 degrees for weeks in the summer. Our winters are usually mild and have not suffered from not enough heat.

Again, just thinkin.

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

Rich, I never said as an alternative (see Post #3887, I was going to put the holes in the thermrstat in addition to the bypass hose going from the water pump to the intake manifold, or better yet, I was going to leave my heater core connected. You must have misunderstood so this needed clerifying.

Furthermore drilling holes in a thermostat would only be a temporary troubleshooting solution as that is not how it was designed to operate, in other words it aint supposed to have holes in it. Again just making sure we are all on the same page.

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

Ah. I misunderstood because there were some people on that thread I pointed to earlier who did that instead of the bypass, and because I have no idea what drilling the thermostat is supposed to accomplish otherwise.

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

Always appreciate your thinkin. I have just now tested my old thermostat simply because it was out of the truck and on the work bench already, ha ha. Plus it is good to know if that rascal was good and got blamed for being bad in error, just because at the time we ran it we did not have the bypass hose hooked up, so we wanted to do right by him.

so we tossed him in our Walter White approved "beaker" and set up our control digital temp gauge. Honestly the electric tea kettle works great for this, it ain't going back in the kitchen that's fer sure.

Old thermostat is rated at 195*F but being a cheap AutoZone Valuecraft (I'm sure) unit it works but it don't open till 205*F which I try to show you with pics but the darn camera lens keeps fogging up from the steam, ha ha, just trust me on this one

I will test the new one later on today when I remove it from the truck. Thanks Jr. and thank you all for hanging in there with me and Rusty on this one, we will finger this out I promise, even if we have to drop a Ford 302 in there, hey just kidding but I did get your attention didn't I...

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

When I installed a crate motor with Vortec heads, I think I found all of those same sites that were linked above regarding the need for a bypass hose. I used a bypass hose and have not had any heat related issues at all.

Finding a hose that makes that bend without kinking proved to be a whole new issue. NAPA let me go into their back room and browse through all the hoses hanging on the wall to find one with with a bend that would appear to work in the correct size. I ended up finding a longer hose with the correct bend somewhere in the middle. I wish I had written down the part number.

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

so went out and "rented" a radiator pressure tester gauge from Autozone, this kit costs $75 bucks, so greatfull for their rent a tool program, essentially you buy it than you have 90 days to return it

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

sure enough my old radiator cap leaks like a sieve, does not hold pressure at all

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

so bought a new one, $5 bucks

tested it as we test all parts new or old here at Suburbs Garage Inc. and it tests good

took the truck for a test drive with the new cap, and results: no change, truck runs just as hot

remember all the cap does is increase the boiling point do to the added pressure, it does not effect how hot your engine runs, so the result was expected, but its still good to have a proper working cap

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

side by side for prosperity

the new cap was designed by someone who actually owned and operated a vehicle cause it has two edges for you to grasp whilst screwing or unscrewing it, unlike the original which was perfectly round and nothing to hold on to, win, win

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

I know in our race cars we only ran water. Then sometimes we'd run Water Wetter which did help especially on the fifty lap races of stop and go. Eventually we went to an electric fan from a Volvo and that cooled the engine nicely. As for the bypass hose if you can't find one start looking at 3500 trucks with the 454 engines in them. I had to replace that stinking hose on our work truck. Good luck and get to cracking.

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

This is because, by leaving those little ears off, GM was able to save a small fraction of a penny on each gross of caps. Then, by the time the savings were spread over the entire production run, GM was able to keep some $87.73. The shareholders should have been very pleased.

I've read through this thread a couple of times now and it's like reading a book. I hope that I'm not wrecking the thread somehow but, considering that this previous quote is genuinely from THIS very thread, I figured that I will take a chance.

Ok, so I'm really unenlightened when it comes to this stuff. I have a couple of questions - what is it that I'm trying to scratch and how do I know when the panels are ready to accept the paint? I took the panels off of my truck, cleaned at least one of them up really well with Simple Green because it was what I already had in the garage. In those areas where the panel, the one that I cleaned, is NOT chalky, my fingernail doesn't leave any sort of mark. But in the chalky areas, YUP! I do leave a mark. When I clean it a second or third time, there is no difference. What's up with this? Can you help?