Re: Restoring Rusty
That's T-rrific!
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Well how does it drive, how does it shift, do you like it?
I like this transmission very much, it shifts very nicely. One note to make is that no matter how hard it is to shift on the bench, ie when you have it out of the truck, that is not how it is going to shift when bolted up to an engine with that long lever of a shift stick, it actually shifts easily when installed on the truck However I'll be honest with you as always, I replaced one used Craigslist transmission that was making noises with another used Craigslist transmission that makes different noises, LOL! It's fine and normal in Reverse and 1st gear, but as soon as I shift it into 2nd it starts to make a rattling noise, as if there was a loose bolt in the case just bouncing around (that's the best way I can describe it) and continues to make the same rattling noise in 3rd and 4th gears as well as in neutral when rolling. :hmm: |
Re: Restoring Rusty
Input shaft center support needle bearing or the cluster gear needles make noise in the Saginaws.
GM only used two rows of needles inside the cluster gear in the Saginaw 3 & 4 speeds vs four rows in most other transmissions so the countershaft and cluster gear sometimes wear badly. Not difficult to repair as long as the cluster gear isn't knackered. If you like that transmission fix it before it strips the teeth off the input shaft or the cluster gear or both. The GM NP440/A833 MY6 is a more robust light duty transmission than the Saginaw. The only real gotcha is the countershaft bearing wearing the aluminum case hole oval. It can be repaired. Chrysler used the AL case A833 in racing applications with steel bushings in the countershaft bores that were tight press-fit to the case and loose press fit to the countershaft. Not just any Joe with a Bridgeport is going to be able to pull this off. I am not capable of setting up this level of precision boring. I can make bushings within 0.0005" on my small lathe but aligning a worn case on my Gorton 9J table or dogged to the carriage on my big lathe so the shaft holes can be bored in-line and concentric with probably only four to six points of reference (two to three per hole) left of the original bores is not a task I'm willing to undertake. https://www.hotrod.com/articles/mopp...-case-buildup/ |
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I work in IT (Information Technology) so sometimes we work while you sleep ie in the off hours and weekends, ha ha so this weekend is hell weekend so no time to wrench |
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So Gentlemen, what is the best part about driving your truck around without putting the transmission tunnel back on?
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Took me a minute, but I'm assuming you mean the in-cab bump that bolts over the transmission? I would think you would get to enjoy all kinds of things like increased road noise, dust particles, heat, engine noise and a malodorous combination of antifreeze, exhaust and engine oil. But maybe that's not it. I'm dying to know what I missed.
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The suspense is mounting....
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As you all may recall from years ago The Greg cleaned his bellhousing to Full Metal Jacket drill sergeant standards... well it and the trans have gotten greasy since and he's been scratching his head going where is the leak coming from, it don't smell like trans fluid, it don't taste like trans fluid, it don't feel like trans fluid so put on your best fittin' Sherlock Homes hats and note the distinguished drip down spread pattern on either side of the bell and dry as Sahara in the middle |
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so the hood lift we shall, and to quote any Middle Manager "let's take a deeper dive" ha ha
well what do we have here, let's start with the passenger side shall we... let's see if we can fly this camera equipped drone in a bit closer ... aka ... zoom in well that's a mighty fine oil puddle there in the intake manifold bolt valley if I do say so myself |
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and the other side please...
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so my original thought was leaky valve cover gaskets, but I am running brand new rubber ones with a liberal coating of gasket sealer on them for good measure, plus when I looked, felt, examined the valve covers I noticed there was oil on top of the valve covers, which then led me to look in / on the intake manifold
so I know I am using generic grade 5 hardware store bolts to hold down the intake manifold with generic washers to boot, would using some proper intake manifold bolts such as the ARP ones made from unoptanium remedy this issue? - (I'm looking at you HATZIE) ha ha |
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needless to say this oil leak has been bothering me, so after I found some flanged bolts I went to town on attempting a solution
first I dry cleaned the oil puddles and yanked the old bolts out then I goopedetized the new flanged bolts in a liberal coat of Permatex gasket sealer, an old engine builders trick and then I torqued them back in to spec (as hard as you can, plus a quarter turn, as Mustang Frank used to say, ha ha) jk |
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then I spick and spanned the bellhousing [again]
for the record the last mess took just over 1,000 miles of driving to get yucky that's when I did the new top end, so I will provide an update after the next blissful 1,000 miles current mileage just over 16,300 |
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Watching your solution closely since I have the same dysfunction.
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well right after I scored the Mr. Gasket T handle, I happened to win the eBay auction for this shifter ball, well it ain't the $700 dollar one but it might do
looks just like the white one I already had but this one gots the right thread in it |
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I have maybe $3k-$4k more in my 82 C10 than it's worth, but I'd bet you've outdone me! :)
My latest sink hole is dropped spring hangers and new rear springs (with all the associated bolts and bushings) and a cool non-step bumper with required brackets, bolts, etc. Around $800 all-in. Ka-ching! I keep telling my wife that it keeps me out of the bars and strip clubs. |
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hard to see in the second pic but the bell housing is wet on the driver side, my oil is nice and clean so it's hard to tell it's running down that side That does it, we're doing an LS Swap!!! jk |
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There are grade 8 bolts with an o-ring in a groove to fix this problem. Not sure where I saw them...
If you have a lathe you can make your own... Just like a Harley. It's not leaking... it's marking its' territory. |
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so the Saginaw 4 Speed Transmission rebuild kit showed up
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alright so the first thing I done did the night before was clean off an entire work bench, I don't know about you but I just function better in clean space, also I never rebuilt a transmission so I need all the help I can get and this ought to help me lay the parts out propper
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I was a hopin' the truck gods would smile upon me as I removed the side cover first with the gear box still attached to the engine, I figured what the hewk lets go for the easy win, maybe some spring or clamp or bracket fell off in there and is just bouncin' around
well no such luck, everything appeared in order, although at first I thought could that fork be broken like that, well no a quick stare and compare with the new one on All State Gear dot com revealed that's just how the 3-4 ? I think they mean 1-2 shift fork is |
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even stuck my hand inside the belly of the beast and tried to wiggle things a bit but nothing out of the ordinary other than worn bearings and syncros I believe, I felt around in the puddle of left over gear oil for broken bits gear teeth etc, but nothin'
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so out she came, and I hoisted her up on the work bench for disassembly...
so happy I can yank the transmission out without disassembling my dual exhaust, saves so much time |
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so took some pics of the guts, ie the orientation of the gears and syncros so I know how they all go back in
and after removing the input shaft housing, the speedo gear I just loosend the tail housing and call it a night on the account that I apparently do not own a set of snap ring pliers (shame on me) |
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For The Record: this is the second GM aka Chevy transmission (the 833 overdrive one being the other) that aint all that popular, so finding info on how to rebuild a Saginaw 4 speed, or better yet how to take it apart took some doing, I saw a few nut job YouTube videos, most were for the 3 speed, and then this guy who calls himself Melrose RS saved the day on our sister Camaro forum How to disassemble a Saginaw transmission
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a quick stop at the local Napa and we were back in business
these babies were xpensive, $40 bucks, but sposely they are reversable, for in and out bound rings |
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so equipped with my new tool, wrong tool mind you (it's not the type of snap ring pliers you need) I began to take this transmission apart
first I removed the four bolts that hold the input shaft housing to the front of the transmission (but we've been over this before when we swapped the smaller car style housing for the larger truck housing) then I snapped out the ring that holds the input shaft bearing and that was a bear for the record I was expecting / hoping for some slop in the front bearing but it felt nice and solid |
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with the front bearing snap ring out, and the bearing off, I was able to separate the tail housing and pull the main shaft out of the back of the transmission case
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naturally the input shaft separated from the main shaft and half a dozen needle roller bearings were on the run, there are 14 total
Important Lesson Learned: I sorta knew this already but the eye opening experience is to discover that although the short input shaft is on the same plane as the main shaft ie they make one horizontal line, they are actually two separate spinning shafts independent of each other, don't laugh it's obvious to sum, but us idiot savants need time to digest, jk I believe the 4th gear ie direct drive, so 1:1 ratio lives on the input shaft |
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started taking the parts off the main shaft, I think this is the 3-4 slider
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Saginaw 4 Speed Transmission schematic from DriveTrain.com, wish it had parts names to go with it
it's really hard to find anything on these four speed Saginaw's seems like every time you search they want to shove Muncie pics at your, ha ha so I had the second pic from AutoZone but deleted it cause they say it's a Muncie, but clearly it's my four speed Saginaw |
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I think here I am taking off the 3rd gear, sorry about the shifting my transmission on the bench left to right and front to back it may be difficult to make sense of any of this
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at this point I didn't quite know what was holding the main shaft in the tail housing still, so I decided to remove the rear oil seal to see if I can find a snap ring in there, but nope, turns out that's not what hold the shaft in there
though I had a proper seal puller this seal was in there for 40 years and was too stubborn to go quietly into the night, so I had to tickle it a little bit |
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