Re: Restoring Rusty
 

Intake Gasket - $20

same verse as the first, I went with Fel Pro MS90314-2 and then tech support recommended Fel Pro part #1205, hey their tech support was closed on Sunday, what was I supposed to do, twirl my thumbs, lol and the gasket matched the ports really well and seemed like a quality piece

and I did the unthinkable, instead of using the gray or black gasket sealer to run a bead on the Chian walls I used their rubber gaskets and only gooped some sealant in the corner, will it work, or will I live to regret it, ha ha?

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

Header Gasket - $27

I actually wanted to the one Edelbrock Tech Support recommended part #1405 but no one had it in stock, so I went with this Cometic C15189HTS from Oh Really's and it looks alright

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

since this upgrade [ahem] repair is going to run me just north of $1,000 I was trying to keep costs down where ever I could, I decided to run my self aligning rockers off the Vortec heads and also use their push rods, I also decided to for now just run the stock '74 valve covers, so

Valve Cover gaskets - $17

I specifically asked for the cheap cork ones (I have gotten great results with those) and the dude behind the counter gave me these Fel Pro VS12869 rubber ones, didn't notice till I got home

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

and finally since we are going from a dual plane to a single plane intake manifold I had to get a open gasket for the carb

carb gasekt - $8.00

again a Cometic brand part # C5263FC, it's actually nice and thick I like it, way heaftier than those Holley ones

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

the third generation machinist (darn it I forget his name, sorry) gave me a tour of the shop on Sunday and showed me what they use as thread sealant, and so if it is good enough for them it is what I will be using

it's that purple stuff, Permatex HIGH TACK Gasket Sealant #80062 from O'Reilly's 4 oz for $10 bucks

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

alright I think those heads sat on the work bench long enough, what do you say we put them on?

notice how I start to remove the push rod guides since you shouldn't run these guide plates and use self aligning rockers, hey I read it on the InterWebs so it's gotta be true, right?

I used washers as spacers instead of those plates

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

and a little later...

man you don't realize how much plumbing and plugging of holes you don't need there is when you swap an intake manifold, lol

I think I blew it on the passenger side valve cover and put it on backwards, but oh well, I'm sure it will be coming off for some unforsaken reason anyways

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

and a couple hours later, shortly afer 9:00 PM we was done

she fired up on the first try, which was shocking since I forgot to mention my one year old H.E.I. distributor seized... after I took it off the truck. I went to put it back on and it would not spin by hand, so I was like what the hewk... so I busted out with my trusty two year old (hee hee) Petronix H.E.I. and it dropped right in and like I said fired up on the first try...

so the truck fired right up and ran, I checked the timing and it was at like 26* initial so I dropped it down to 12* initial and called it good, dialed the idle back to 900 RPM which is where I had it before, that's where I get the highest vacuum of 19"

I was surprised that my idle AFR was perfect in the high 13.9s border line low 14.4s just as it was before

different cylinder heads, different intake manifold and the truck idles the same, I took it around the block in the residential area 35-45 MPH and it drove the same(ish)

well other than the dreaded massive exhaust leak!!! see those rusty Hooker headers, I hate 'em!

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

so I sat there depressed in my thinking chair drinking my wifes Chardonnay out of the bottle (seriously we were all out of 805) when I remembered December 4th... that's right I bought some FlowTech headers and they have just been hanging on my garage wall for 5 months, gentlemen I think they are acclimated!!! I've been meaning to tell you about those, but you know life got in the way...

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

it was nearly 10 PM by now but I got a second wind, I did not know if it was the wine or my hate of the Hookers but the next thing I knew I was pulling out the spark plugs which were still hot, and next thing I knew the old passenger side header was on the garage floor right next to the new one

I got as far as mounting the Flow Tech header on the passenger side and oh my god perfect fit and you can reach all the bolts, one criticism you can't get a socket on the #6 spark plug, had to use an open ended wrench to snug it up, hmmm, nothing's perfect

I called it a day/night here, The Greg is pooped! thanks for reading

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

That's the way I like to start my day; having my morning coffee and catching up with Rusty. :mm:

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

Yes, no guide plates with self-aligning rockers. And make sure the rockers contact only the valve stem tips, and not the retainers.

As for a Performer RPM Air Gap, I'd pass on the gimmick (and the cold weather warm-up issues) and get a good ol' 7101 Performer RPM. Or if you want to maximize torque in the mid-range, a Performer EPS Or better yet, the much newer-design Weiand 8120 Street Warrior. But, hey, it sounds like the open plenum manifold is working just fine for you.

Did you get rid of that Holley 80457, or convert it to dual inlet float bowls? And are you able to use the rear vacuum port on the manifold? A problem with Edelbrock manifolds is the rear port is somewhat obscured by a Holley float bowl.

Glad to see you got some nice heads. My 350 got new Vortecs four years ago, but if I had a do-over I'd go with conventional heads. No problems so far, but their thin castings are prone to crack if the engine is overheated -- apparently even slightly overheated. That's why the vast majority of used Vortecs have hairline cracks. Of course I learn this after buying the heads, manifold, valve covers, expensive intake gaskets, etc, etc.:(

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

LOL, thank you so much, I sense since this thread be four years old the original audience may have changed a bit, but I aim to please regardless, also I be lying to you all if I said Rusty being my daily driver hasn't changed the way I wrench on it, its all about Progress not Perfection now, but it's all good

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

Mike really good info in your post, and I will address all your points soon when my brain is fully On, but first just some quick answers.

Nope I still have it and yes I converted it to a dual bowl dual inlet sight glass bowls with two metering blocks and got rid of that silly metering plate in the back.

Ha ha, I almost forgot to plug that port in the back of the intake manifold, I thought about tapping into it with a 90* but then I thought I just use the port in the back of my carb for the brake booster. I may have been able to clear it since I run a 1" carb spacer, but on a second thought I may wanna experiment without the spacer, so it's probably best I didn't use it.

As our friend Lucky Costa of the Hot Rod Garage fame said, "after careful hours of research, I bought the first thing I saw" I may have gotten lucky with these, don't know yet, but it's what was sitting on the office floor at the machine shop, the owner said he wanted to use them on his own motor, (BINGO... I thought good enuff for him, good enuff fer me) but he said they been there three years since some guy couldn't afford to pay off one of his engine rebuilds the shop owner got em in a trade/barter.

Awesome bro, have you tried the Crane Cams 10309-1 spring kit on them to get the higher lift or the Comp Cams 26915, 26918 beehive springs? No doubt they crack I have now gone through five pairs of Vortec heads, that's 10 cylinder heads from the junk yard, and none of them was any good.

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

well I'll be a wart hogs _ _ _ I recon them FlowTech headers came with 3" collector extensions, gaskets, and even bolts, if I can only find that stuff in my garage, it's been five months since I got these, hee hee, unless Summit is just teasing me with this pic...

Collector Reducers Included: Yes
Collector Reducer Exit Diameter: 2.500 in.
Bolts/Studs Included: Yes
Gaskets Included: Yes

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

found em! man I wish I remembered I had these, I wouldn't have to buy that $27 exhaust gasket set, oh well

those of you who have been following Rusty for a while, know that we have not been in this house an entire year yet, so I am still trying to get the work shop all set up, and I'm sure you all know how much fun moving and doing the setup all over again is - Not!

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

After running the stock heads for a year or so, I switched to GM LS6/LS2 beehive valve springs. Installed them at 1.750" using CompCams 787-16 retainers and 648-16 locks. It's a super clean setup.

Cam is a GMPP roller used in the HT383 and RamJet 350 crate engines. It's a small cam by "bigger is better" hot rodder standards, but GM's HP/TQ chart for the RamJet shows it has a very wide powerband that's perfect for an around town cruiser and running to the dump. But the engine is definitely not a dog when I stomp on the gas. In fact, if/when I go to a lower gear than its current 2.73, the truck should be downright quick.

My headers are Patriot H8048, which are made in the same Mexico plant using the same pattern as Doug's headers. (Both are Pertronix brands.) However, I had to re-route the hard lines on the passenger side because the #2 tube hit them. What a PITA. But, man the tubing is heavy gauge, the flanges thick, and they tuck up high. For the money, your Flowtechs look great.

Edit: Don't even think about using those headers gaskets. What's worked for me over the years are both Fel-Pro square (#1444) and Mr. Gasket round (don't have the P/N) steel core header gaskets. Also, Summit aluminum collector gaskets. All are reusable 1-2 times. But heck, we know you never tear anything apart once it's assembled. :)

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

sounds like you did something similar to me and followed a GMPP engine spec build, did you go with the 1.6 rockers like the RamJet?

so your cam is a roller and has a .460" / .481" lift, mine is a flat tappet from their 350 HO engine so it's a .435" / .460" with stock springs I recon it's the biggest you can go on a Vortec with a flat tappet cam unless you swap springs

your duration is tight 196* / 205*, mine is 212* / 222*

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

196/206, .431"/.451". I have 1.6 rockers on intake for .460" lift. The Ramjet engine uses 1.6 rockers on both intake and exhaust.

Very few differences between this and my engine, And mine actually has 9.3:1 compression.

http://chevroletperformanceparts.com..._RamJet350.jpg

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

so got the driver side header off, here's a little stare and compare, I hated that dreaded #5 pipe in the ol' Hooker header on the right, the long one across the top

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

took some pics of the exhaust gasket against the cylinder head for us all to ponder the sealability factor, or lack there of, these E-Street heads have a funny D shaped exhaust port, note the gaskets be square

Vote of Confidence = low, ha ha

a friend of mine, Mopar Seth seems to think you match the gasket to the header not the head, I don't know what to think

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

and soon enough it was a cuttin' time, and the wheel of death was out

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

so Plan A was simple, we cut off the flange off of the 2.5" pipe and weld on the 3" to 2.5" reduction flange...

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

remember to slip on the bracket before you weld on the flange, hee hee

... preferable on the right side of the beed

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

yes, Ray Charles welded these for me [ahem] with his feet, ha ha

ok I have not dialed in my welder on that beed ok, I'm going with that excuse

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

and after all that we would have to cut it all up and start over with Plan B, because the header collectors don't run parallel to the floor but are angled down ever so slightly, darn it

so the other side looks more like this after it's all buggered up, hard to tell there's an angle but trust me on this one

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

Looks like someone opened up those ports. Oh wait, I'll bet they are the 200cc version. There are D-port gaskets available, so you should google them or check Summit.

The keys to gasket selection are not to block the head port and to make sure you have at least 1/4" of seal around the header flange and the head's gasket surface. Otherwise you get blow-outs which give headers a bad rap. Exhaust flow is at max volume at the top of the port, so that's the most critical place not to block.

Enough said. I'll stop hijacking your thread.:)

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

OK, so...

How does it run?

- honestly about the same, not any worse, and not significantly that much better, maybe these E-Street heads are not that much better than the Vortecs I had on there. Also I get the same excellent vacuum at idle of 19" even with the single plane intake manifold. If anything the driveability may be a bit more crisp. I can get it to 4000 RPM in second gear, but I haven't gotten it to 4000 in third gear (it's direct drive in my transmission) cause I ran out of road, ha ha

Did it fix the coolant leak?

- too soon to tell, need at least a week of driving

Did it fix the exhaust leak?

- no, and this frustrates me to no end, so I will try a round port gasket next I think, I also reached out to Reflex Tech Support, we'll see what they say

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

Your E-Street heads probably flow better than the Vortecs at lifts above .450". However, Vortecs are hard to beat at lower lifts and have great "average flow" numbers from .200" to .450" or so. They were designed to make lots of torque in the L31 pickup truck engine with cam specs of 191º/196º, .414"/.428.

BTW, I was wrong about your heads being 200cc. Looks like the only E-Street head is 185cc with either 64cc or 70cc chambers. Good bang for the buck.

Have you determined your static compression ratio? That cam would probably like 9.5-10:1 with aluminum heads.

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

Happy Mother's Day... weekend everyone!

So the "exhaust" leak has been bothering me so I snuck out early on Saturday morning and replaced the square port gaskets with these round port ones on the passenger side, and today (Sunday) I snuck out early 8:00 am before all the festivities started and did the driver side.

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

here I am comparing the new round port exhaust gaskets (top) with the oval ones (bottom) that came with the Flowtech headers.

I think the oval ones would have been way too tall to cover the E-Street heads flat bottom D shaped ports, but these round ones may just work.

the sharpie outlines the difference, note the top gasket is wavy and not flat so it seems like its off the pen mark, just letting you know

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

Yeah these are the 185cc ports with 64cc chambers so I am quite happy with those specs. However there's some nonsense about them not being able to be run with roller cams. That is not an issue with this flat tapped block/cam combo, but in case I wanted to move them to my other spare roller block... just thinking ahead

also they don't recommend reving them above 5,500 RPM which I don't expect to be an issue on this ol' mouse!

IMPORTANT NOTE: "E-Street Cylinder Heads are equipped with 1.460” diameter valve springs that have been tested to 5,500 rpm with
an Edelbrock Performer camshaft. DO NOT EXCEED 5,500 RPM WITH THESE SPRINGS. Higher operating speeds may induce valve float
which can cause severe engine damage. Performer RPM heads are recommended for higher engine speeds. Check the spring specs for
your camshaft before installing these heads."

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

It's just a matter of selecting proper valve springs for the roller cam you may choose someday. No big deal at all. The main thing is having enough spring pressure to keep the heavier roller lifters in check.

Those round port gaskets look great. I sometimes file them open a little to make sure no part of the port is covered.

***Edit: I just posted a question at Summit asking for spring installed height, seat pressure, and rate. A 1.46" spring installed at a height that allows .550" lift would typically be stiff enough to handle 6000 RPM or more, as well as many mild roller cams. The only thing that makes sense is Edelbrock chose a soft, long travel spring for this head.

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

well top of the monin' to ya folks, I am happy to report that after almost 2 weeks and over 350 miles of driving with the new Edelbrock Top End (cylinder heads and intake manifold for those of you un initiated, lol) we have no more coolant loss and no more milk shake in the valve covers or on the oil cap

Happy Days!!! I am so happy, it has been a long, frustrating, and expensive and well deserved fix. If I do say so myself.

Thank you all for following, reading, and a commenting (I'm looking at you MikeB), thank you so much for you help!

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

Well that's good news Gregski! Are you liking the way she runs?

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

I do like the way it runs, however as I said before she runs the same, so either my ol' Vortecs were that good (despite the internal coolant leaks) or the Edelbrock E-Street cylinder heads ain't all that. I bet the shinny Edels aint all that, and I wish I had me some AFR 195s Eliminators, a boy can dream! ha ha

Full Disclosure: being a perfectionist I am a bit bothered by the valve chatter that starts above 1,500 RPM but it's same as before except before it was masked by an exhaust leak, hee hee, now I can hear it better, I am going to try +.100 longer pushrods after I measure their length, cause that's what Edelbrock recommends for these heads. And if that don't work I am throwing in some full blown Comp Cams roller rockers to see if we can quiet her down.

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

Don't just assume she needs longer pushrods. I'd suggest checking for optimal rocker arm-to-valve stem tip geometry. For info, google "Comp Cams valvetrain geometry."

It's kinda hard to check geometry with hydraulic lifters, but you can use a lightweight test spring to make a very light "witness" mark w/o compressing the lifter. Geometry is less critical with stamped rockers that slide across the valve stem tip than with roller tipped rockers, but still, you don't want to chance wearing down the side of a valve stem tip.

As I recall you have stamped rockers. If that's the case be sure the rocker arms are not hitting the retainers, and that you are not using guide plates with self-aligning rockers.

Also, here are some race engine builder comments on what Edelbrock says about the E-Street heads not being suitable for roller cams:

https://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=53337

Many of the guys at SpeedTalk.com are engine builders, head porters, and cam grinders. They are WAY over my head most of the time.

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

Gregski, do you feel like you've noticed any benefit with regards to the lighter weight of the aluminum over the cast iron other than lifting them over the fender? You said the performance feels about the same and, so maybe it's not enough weight change to feel a difference. The owner of the local high performance shop that does some of my work has cautioned me that aluminum heads actually pull energy out of the combustion event in the form of heat. He says that installing aluminum heads without increasing the compression ratio about a point will actually net a drop in performance. If that theory holds, then maybe you have increased flow etcetera, but then were balanced out by that factor.

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

Very good point, but I'm not sure it's a full point difference. No pun intended.

I have to think the single plane manifold isn't delivering in the RPM range where the engine spends most of its time. But, hey, it sounds like a nice dual plane may be in Rusty's future. :)

If Greg is into black, he might want to jump on this deal:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Weiand-8120...MAAOSwzRFaVUXh

I have bought several "scratch and dent" parts (actually new and unused) from Holley's eBay store over the years, and the guys who run the store are very good to deal with.

Or wait until a standard-finish 8120 manifold is up for sale. I got one 3 years ago for (are you ready?) $79 including shipping!

Re: Restoring Rusty
 

That is a good question, the weight difference is negligeable on a 2 ton truck, it's like throwing a pool chair off of a Titanic, ha ha.

I think I may have actually decreased compression by following Edelbrocks instructions and mounting a .041 compression head gasket rather than the .028 the General had me install for the Vortec heads. But again very small potatoes. I recon Edels reasoning is if you buy these new heads most likely you had a block rebuilt and they decked it a few mil so the gasket is to compensate for piston height / quench area etc. I'm no expert just regurgetating what I read on the InterWebs.

I have not tunned the bejezus out of this new engine top end configuration yet on the account of the valve train noise, I think once I have proper rocker/pushrod geometry I will feel more comfortable pushing the engine a bit more.

Stay tuned a Dyno Test is on the horizon.