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-   -   Restoring Rusty (https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=645440)

Hewfil1 08-21-2016 09:53 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 7690133)
LOL, First of all let me just say it took sum ballz to pull this off, sorry could't resist, hee hee

OK, after the test drive... Houston... We have a problem.

Apparently 2 is not the middle of 4 according to GM, you see [ahem] "pops" jk the passenger side hits the steer stop and the driver side stops short of it by maybe just under an inch

I think its time to blame the P.O.

Looks like the previous owner replaced the outer tie rod on the driver side only but not on the passenger side

So first this Power Nap aint going to take itself no how, so lemme git that out of the way and then git after it

Report at 11

Luck be with you Gregski!

Gregski 08-22-2016 12:15 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
4 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hewfil1 (Post 7690206)
Luck be with you Gregski!

thank you, Fix This I Must

so Rule #7 clearly states if you don't know what you is a doin' than Stare 'N Compare bro

and so we is going to compare twisty turney thing on the driver side to the twisty turney thing on the passenger side

first after wire wheelin' them a bit we can actually see they are a slotted, cool we can see how much threads are in them and how far apart

Gregski 08-22-2016 12:22 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
well after a couple hours and some fine "adjustments" and I use that term loosely, ha ha I thought I had the problem resolved both wheels were slightly toed in and each side went to the side an equal distance stopping just before the steer stop on either side - NICE

well but a test drive proved otherwise, the truck drove ok, but it felt like I could make tighter turns to the right than to the left

so... the Greg found me a nice empty parking lot, 57 feet wide with concrete edges on either side so you could not go out of bounce and cheat sort of speak

then I proceeded to make a right hand turn with the wheel turned as tight to the right as possible and I just barely made a couple perfect circles to the right within the confines of that parking lot

ok, awesome now lets try the other way, so I turned the wheel 4 turns to the left, ie all the way and gave it a shot, low and behold I could not fit inside that parking lot

in other words I am unable to make a U turn within 57 feet

help!

harley87ta 08-22-2016 01:19 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Could your pitman arm not be clocked in the right position? I think they could be installed in different postions. Not sure if that could cause your issue though

Gregski 08-22-2016 02:06 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by harley87ta (Post 7690380)
Could your pitman arm not be clocked in the right position? I think they could be installed in different postions. Not sure if that could cause your issue though

this one looks like it can be clocked in 4 different positions but the one that it is in is the only one that reaches the linkage and the steering box

thanks for trying to help, I wish I baselined this with my old power steering box still on, but things seemed fine so I had no idea what problems I would have with the manual box

I bought the manual box with the pitman arm to avoid these types of headaches but I still ran into issues

I think its a tie rod linkage issues, but I am not sure

Boog 08-22-2016 12:59 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Could it be one tooth off inside the box?

Gregski 08-22-2016 01:48 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Boog (Post 7690714)
Could it be one tooth off inside the box?

I think you may be on to something, I will take it apart tonight and let you know, good advice I appreciate it.

rusty76 08-22-2016 04:59 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Well crap. Get this thing resolved ok. Good luck.

Boog 08-22-2016 05:35 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Greg if you remove the drag link from the pitman arm or the pitman arm from the sector you can then turn the sector from lock to lock. Count the turns then return the sector to center. Now look at the splines on the output shaft. The pitman arm should be parallel with the frame when mounted on the sector. That should get it closer.
Does anyone know if the draglink is different for manual or power steering?

Gregski 08-22-2016 06:32 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Boog (Post 7690984)
Greg if you remove the drag link from the pitman arm or the pitman arm from the sector you can then turn the sector from lock to lock. Count the turns then return the sector to center. Now look at the splines on the output shaft. The pitman arm should be parallel with the frame when mounted on the sector. That should get it closer.
Does anyone know if the draglink is different for manual or power steering?

That's what I did, I am 4 turns lock to lock, so I put it in the middle at 2 turns and I am very close to center or even in the center

harley87ta 08-22-2016 08:19 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
http://jimshea.corvettefaq.com/wp-co...ev28jl2009.pdf


This pdf is for gm cars but may apply to your steering box too. On page 2 it says the some 73-74 boxes have more tavel right than left

Gregski 08-22-2016 10:35 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Anyone heard of BAW tie rod ends? The PO put one of those on the driver side and I'm broke so I was only gonna buy one to match it

Gregski 08-23-2016 02:22 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
just want to pause and thank everyone trying to help out, thank you for your comments and advice, I had no idea this little "project" was going to kick my butt

Gregski 08-23-2016 02:24 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
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on the way home from work today stopped by AutoZone and rented this here HammerHead

Gregski 08-23-2016 02:26 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
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since I had to pull the manual steering box back off I figured I would take some pics of specialty tools and such needed for the job that I didn't have time to take the first time around, here I am abusing a pitman arm puller

really aint no other way to git this thing off that I know of

Gregski 08-23-2016 02:31 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
5 Attachment(s)
Never time to do it right, but always time to do it over, I'm sure we've all heard that before

so since I had the box off I took it upon myself to replace one of the bearing cups, one was pitted / damaged probably by the one bearing that gave way and shattered and the person kept driving the vehicle

I actually had to devise a puller to pull the bearing forward about an 1/8th of an inch before the slide hammer jaws could even get in there

you ain't wrenched until you made or modified your own tools, am I right fellars?

Gregski 08-23-2016 02:35 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
3 Attachment(s)
a side by side comparison of the old damaged bearing cup and the new replacement one

hey man I aint perfect but I try to do a good job

Gregski 08-23-2016 02:37 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
3 Attachment(s)
then it was time to use my portable press on my 20" by 20" concrete bench top (aka garage floor)

gentle now... even the retainer found its way back into place to keep the bearing from falling out

Gregski 08-23-2016 02:41 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
4 Attachment(s)
then I had to remove both outter steering tie rods, I know some say don't use the Yamaha tuning fork, but I tried the screw the crown nut to the bolt and try to hammer it out but it just wouldn't budge

and yes I ruined the rubber on the new tie rod on the driver side, but oh well I couldn't find a match for it anyway

Gregski 08-23-2016 02:43 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
2 Attachment(s)
here's the BAW tie rod no one's ever heard of

KQQL IT 08-23-2016 02:45 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Gregski, i just bought an NOS manual box for my pile.
If yours is terminal... I have a known good used one I'd donate.

Gregski 08-23-2016 02:46 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
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and this is the OEM GM one from the passenger side, this one has seen better days, but believe it or not inside it was solid

Gregski 08-23-2016 02:51 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
3 Attachment(s)
ah man... don't tell me we is gonna clean this thing if we're just gonna replace it...

you know how NASCAR tears up the engine right after each race for a close inspection, well Busted Knuckless Garage aint no different we must examine each part for goodness or badness people

all I'm saying is this part after 42 years of service deserves to be in a Museum not in the Trash, that's all I'm sayin'

Gregski 08-23-2016 02:55 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
5 Attachment(s)
I'm telling you this thing with a little love from a grease gun and a new universal rubber boot could be good for another 42 years if we had to use it

Gregski 08-23-2016 03:00 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
So I went to NAPA for some new tie rod ends, it being closest to my house, and the dude there had the balls to pass off some ends made in China as MOOG to me, I said no thanks, he said MOOG makes those for us, yeah right, it was some generic no name brand

so I bolted out of there and went to O-Really's they were out of stock of their Moog brans, but I remembered I once got some Master Pro parts from them and they was made in the US, so I asked for a couple boxes, but no luck these were made in China, but it was late at night and I really wanted to test drive the truck tonight

so NOT my proudest moment, but I bought some Master Pro outter tie rod ends, well look on the bright side, at least both sides match now and both sides are new, that's a win for this TRUCK

Gregski 08-23-2016 03:05 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Oh, almost forgot, I called Midwest Steering, (the place where I got my rebuild kit) earlier this morning and spoke to _________ (fill in name when I remember) the nicest guy, wow they actually believe in Customer Service

anywho I asked them how many balls are supposed to go into that ball screw thingie, he asked for the part number 5698180 and said that case part number came with different guts in it, so he looked at a pic of my ball screw (on this there forum) and said they either came with 54 balls or 50, yours came with 50

whew I was relieved cause I read somewheres on the InterWebs that these things took 54 balls and I swore I was careful when I emptied mine and only counted 50, great I thought I lost 4 darn

so when I rerebuilt it tonight I removed the 4 extra balls I stuck in there from one of the busted bearings, interestingly after re alignment my box is now 6 turns lock to lock instead of 4, hmmm

Gregski 08-23-2016 03:10 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
ok man, but how does it steer?

well I thought you would never ask... Now I can't make a U turn in that 57 foot wide parking lot either way, neither right hand turn, nor a left hand turn, LOL

great, so what does that mean?

did I fix things by balancing them out? or did I make them worse? man I don't know, I honestly don't know

I will drive the truck to work for a few days and report back to you all on what I think, right now I am 50/50 on this manual steering conversion, and my arms are already sore, hee hee

Gregski 08-23-2016 03:15 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
3 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by harley87ta (Post 7691142)
http://jimshea.corvettefaq.com/wp-co...ev28jl2009.pdf


This pdf is for gm cars but may apply to your steering box too. On page 2 it says the some 73-74 boxes have more tavel right than left

thanks man, but my donor box came off of a 77, not sure how those are balanced?

Wgesnerjr 08-23-2016 12:13 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 7691508)
here's the BAW tie rod no one's ever heard of

Greg,
Looks like someone got a BAW part in an AC Delco box. (see post #27 & 48)

Weird.

Read here: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=714531

KevinCowTown 08-23-2016 02:12 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 7688505)
... take a look at the new and improved side exhaust Flow-a-Masters...

So is the drone gone? No not all the way gone but believe it or not its better, technically the drone used to be at 1000 RPM and now its at around 800 RPM (this is better on cold starts since with fast idle on your head was a poundin' till the rig warmed up)

Good call on the Flowmaster's Gregski.

I cut a Flowmaster off an '04 5.3L F-150 and put on a brand new Magnaflow... to cut the drone. Worked great too.

Then I towed my 5,700 LB (probably closer to 7K with water, groceries and beer loaded) trailer out to Banff, Alberta through the Mountains. That little 5.3 Triton was turning pretty fast getting up the big hills.

By the time I got home, the exhaust from those 5500+ RPM hills had pounded the glass baffles in the Magnaflow flat and the truck droned worse than ever.

Gregski 08-25-2016 10:41 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wgesnerjr (Post 7691814)
Greg,
Looks like someone got a BAW part in an AC Delco box. (see post #27 & 48)

Weird.

Read here: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=714531

thank you, that is crazy talk

Chrispbrown36 08-25-2016 06:01 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
That is insane....so you can go out of your way to buy AC Delco parts, pay a higher price, and still end up with some cheap part? Or I guess you could go to a dealership and buy there....after you stop in the bank for a personal loan...

Gregski 08-25-2016 07:19 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrispbrown36 (Post 7693968)
That is insane....so you can go out of your way to buy AC Delco parts, pay a higher price, and still end up with some cheap part? Or I guess you could go to a dealership and buy there....after you stop in the bank for a personal loan...

LOL, yup buyer beware we all heard that before

Gregski 08-25-2016 07:23 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
allow me to provide you with some steering updates as progress has been made

The Greg attempted a DIY Alignment mostly just to adjust the Toe in properly

step one was to inflate all the tires to 35 PSI and I only had to go to THREE gas stations to git it done, I have lost all faith in humanity, most pumps were broken or pieces were stolen, disgusting

yes dummy over here useta have two air compressors but sold them both

Gregski 08-25-2016 07:25 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
The DIY Alignment Tools of the Trade

Rocket science this is not!

two sets of jack stands

some string (cause string can't be crooket, well sure but you git the idea)

and a measuring implement

Gregski 08-25-2016 07:30 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
4 Attachment(s)
so we start at the back, I like to set my jack stands a bit passed the end of the car, then we run the string the length of the car

the goal is to have a straight line based on the rims of the rear wheel, so I start at the back of the wheel and I measure 1" inch from the edge of the rim to the string

then I measure exactly 1" from the front edge of the rear wheel to the string, that gives me a straight line to the front wheels

there's a name for this but it escapes me now

string may appear to be off in the pics because of the bad angle of the camera

Gregski 08-25-2016 07:33 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
I tried to set the steering wheel straight but that proved futile as the wheel was centered with the power steering box on and it did not put the Pitman arm at the 12 o'clock position

Gregski 08-25-2016 07:40 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
3 Attachment(s)
so I went with the Pitman arm being vertical in the 12:00 o'clock position, another way of looking at it is it was parallel with the steering column, broom stick as I call it

well this put my front wheels all wonkey, check it out the driver side was way toed out and the passenger side too toed in they stuck out way more than what they appear in the pics, actually they were so out of adjustment that they were hitting the string on both sides and had to be turned in a few turns just to be in the ball park

but this I thought could explain that turnability difference to the left vs to the right... lets have at it

Gregski 08-25-2016 07:50 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
ok fellas, efficient this process is not, but it is not meant to be, it is done on the cheap and gits you in the ball park

so after taking some measurements with my eyecrometer and having loosened the tie rod sleeves I had to lift the truck to make some adjustments

I took my time and it took FIVE ups and downs to git it dialed in, but I did that on purpose so that I could understand what is going on, checking my 1" rear rim string settings in between each adjustment, P.I.A. but learned something

so First Adjustment was one turn in on the driver side and one turn out on the passenger side

then Second Adjustment was one turn in on the driver side and one turn out on the passenger side

rinse, lather, repeat

I think after the Third Adjustment the driver side gave me a 1/8th toe in, PERFECT

it took two more adjustments on the passenger side as I think I went passed the sweet spot, but a few half turns in got me to a 1/8th toe in on that side too - also PERFECT

SkinnyG 08-25-2016 07:53 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Keep in mind that the front and rear track width are not necessarily the SAME. This will give you a false toe reading.

When adjusting toe, make sure you know which way to turn it. It's easy to add toe IN when you meant toe OUT. The adjusters may not need to be turned the same direction left to right.

When adjusting toe, make sure you keep centering the steering wheel, or have some lackey in there holding it still for you. Adjusting toe sometimes moves the wheel.


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