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-   -   Restoring Rusty (https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=645440)

Gregski 03-20-2016 10:23 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Valarius_Starchaser (Post 7529601)
That ARP thread sealant will be good for any water jacket application and anything up to 550 degrees and is even good on fuel fittings

worth the few extra bucks to not send coolant into your engine "ask how I know"

thanks unfortunately I believe the tube was opened and is 80 years old so I just tossed it and will go with the Permatex high temp stuff, but it pays to know

hatzie 03-20-2016 10:54 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 7529564)
lots of good info here, please elaborate on the "exhaust fasteners" comment, do you mean exhaust manifold bolts, or bolts further down like header collector bolts

All of the above. Exhaust bolts especially.
I use it on Spark Plug threads and on wheel lugs.
Be aware that torque specs in your service manuals are DRY not lubricated.
Torques need to be derated for anti-seize lubricated nuts and bolts. Permatex has charts for this.

Jake Wade 03-21-2016 06:43 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Yes, use it on exhaust manifold/header bolts, collector bolts, spark plug threads, and especially any bolts threaded into your aluminum intake, thermostat housing bolts for example.

Troy Sr 03-21-2016 09:13 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
You WILL be sorry if you don't replace all of the freeze plugs!!! They will let loose at the most inopportune time leaving you stranded or worse over heating your engine cracking your new heads. It's not worth it for a few bucks!!!

Gregski 03-22-2016 01:36 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
5 Attachment(s)
picked up some white vinegar on the way home from work today and decided to use it to flush out the block from all the coolant rust, not sure if it was worth the $3.00 dollar investment, used boiling hot water and vinegar to do so

Gregski 03-22-2016 01:38 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
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used painters tape to block off the cylinders to prevent vinegar and or water from splashing down upon them, then I was super careful

Gregski 03-22-2016 01:40 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
3 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Troy Sr (Post 7530890)
You WILL be sorry if you don't replace all of the freeze plugs!!! They will let loose at the most inopportune time leaving you stranded or worse over heating your engine cracking your new heads. It's not worth it for a few bucks!!!

I was literally replacing another freeze plug when I got your text in the garage, lol, but I must admit just as I expected this one was solid, there was absolutely no need for me to extract it

Gregski 03-22-2016 01:47 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
3 Attachment(s)
all in all, it was pretty much an all to do about nothing type a day, I worked my butt off but had not much to show for it

I cleaned bolts and washers and more bolts

1. oil pan bolts
2. timing cover bolts
3. water pump bolts
4. intake manifold bolts
5. valve cover bolts
6. crank gear bolts
7. fan bolts
8. fly wheel bolts
9. pressure plate bolts
10. bell housing bolts


I cleaned the oil pan, it may need a little touch up paint

I cleaned the timing cover, its ready for paint and a new seal

I Mickey Moused with the thermostat gasket on the new Vortec intake manifold with a razor blade, until no one was looking, then I called in the heavy artillery

trying to decide weather I clear this thing or paint it Cast Iron to match the heads and the block, its pourous and a pain to clean, I can only imagine it being a dirt and grime magnet in the truck

hey I cleaned my workbench.... again

Gregski 03-22-2016 02:01 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
So the plan is to put the engine back together on Saturday (that's 4 days from now), the original plan for March Madness was to have the engine back in the truck by then ie all in one month, but then I had my set back(s) with the Vortec heads, so I'm sure you'll forgive me for falling behind

so here's what's left to do in the crunch time
0. chase / tap all the bolt holes in the block

1. paint engine block

2. paint timing cover

3. paint valve covers

4. paint or clear coat the new(er) Vortec intake manifold

5. assembly the new(er) Vortec heads

6. gather up all the odd ball this and thats (expansion plugs, water pump gaskets, thermostat gasket, thread sealer, gasket maker, etc.)
I don't want to rush, but at the same time I don't want this engine sitting in two dozen pieces for eternity, I'm sure you know what I mean.

Though I work hard and do the best that I can, at 43 I learned that I rather have something completed at 80% quality, than strive for 100% perfection and never complete it!

Gregski 03-22-2016 02:10 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
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saw this Lucas Engine Break-In oil Zinc additive at AutoZone today while buying new belts, seems like they don't carry engine break in oil any more, neither does Oh'Reallys

The GM Start-up and Break-in Procedures, Specifications 19210008 only say use 10w30 motor oil (non-synthetic) and nothing about Zinc

Valarius_Starchaser 03-22-2016 07:55 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 7531195)
saw this Lucas Engine Break-In oil Zinc additive at AutoZone today while buying new belts, seems like they don't carry engine break in oil any more, neither does Oh'Reallys

The GM Start-up and Break-in Procedures, Specifications 19210008 only say use 10w30 motor oil (non-synthetic) and nothing about Zinc

That's because when GM made your engine the knuckle heads at the EPA didn't remove the zinc from our oil yet. You want something between 1000-1800ppm of zinc in your oil or you will wipe a cam very quickly. I simply run Rotella T6 diesel oil it has a naturally higher zinc content still at around 1100 and has been proven by third party hobbies the like us with oil analysis tests sent in to labs. It costs a little more then normal 5w30 but it sure beats trying to track down zinc additive and then trying to explain it to the kid behind the parts counter as you melt his brain trying to explain it to him.

Keep in mind though if this were a full rebuild you would want some straight 30 weight to help seat rings on first start up and to reduce initial bearing wear.

"Steps off soap box"

enaberif 03-22-2016 09:01 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Not sure if its available in the US but up here in the great north we have a company who makes specialized oil for old vehicles and bikes. It is a 10w40 oil which is good for most cars and motorcycles but it contains large amounts of ZDDP to help the wiping of critical engine components.

http://www.camoils.com/

enaberif 03-22-2016 09:01 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
** Duplicate **

Gregski 03-22-2016 09:33 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Valarius_Starchaser (Post 7531284)
That's because when GM made your engine the knuckle heads at the EPA didn't remove the zinc from our oil yet.

True, but I am refering to the modern specs from the 350 HO Deluxe Engine (19210008) Specifications, revised on May 28th, 2014. That's why I posted that info, cause it surprised me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valarius_Starchaser (Post 7531284)
You want something between 1000-1800ppm of zinc in your oil or you will wipe a cam very quickly. I simply run Rotella T6 diesel oil it has a naturally higher zinc content still at around 1100 and has been proven by third party hobbies the like us with oil analysis tests sent in to labs. It costs a little more then normal 5w30 but it sure beats trying to track down zinc additive

Glad to hear another proponent of Rotella, as I hear arguments for and against it these days, I think rumors are they are fandangling with the formula, maybe at least in California. Well the Rotella T is on sale, and I had my heart set on it, not quite T6 but it might could work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valarius_Starchaser (Post 7531284)
and then trying to explain it to the kid behind the parts counter as you melt his brain trying to explain it to him

oh my god, did you have a camera on me this last time I was talking about just that with the pimple faced youth at Oh'Reallys, ha ha, nice kid, but inexperienced, he'll get there though, very open minded

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valarius_Starchaser (Post 7531284)
"Steps off soap box"

you can step up on it as many times as you like bro, you are always very helpful, but next time I expect a mic drop when you do Step Off! and if this thing granades I'll know who to blame, jk, ha ha

Gregski 03-22-2016 09:36 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by enaberif (Post 7531326)
** duplicate **

exterminate!

blazer2007 03-22-2016 10:17 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Joe gibbs have a good brake in oil,is it not sold in Cal.?

79sierra 03-22-2016 10:45 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
All flat tappet cam engines need ZDDP oils, I use Royal Purple HPS 10W 30 in mine.

jwilson645 03-22-2016 11:02 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Brad Penn break in oil is what I'm using. Supposed to have the required ZDDP from what I've read and I've read A LOT on it.....

daddyjeep 03-22-2016 12:39 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
I will 3rd the Rotella. That is what I used for the engine in the Jeep last year.

rich weyand 03-22-2016 12:59 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
I've been running synth since after break-in. Mobil1 10W30 with half a bottle of this added each oil change.

Amazon.com: ZDDPPlus ZDDP Engine Oil Additive... Amazon.com: ZDDPPlus ZDDP Engine Oil Additive...

Valarius_Starchaser 03-22-2016 12:59 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 7531356)
True, but I am refering to the modern specs from the 350 HO Deluxe Engine (19210008) Specifications, revised on May 28th, 2014. That's why I posted that info, cause it surprised me.

That surprised me so much so that I looked in my GM performance book and it even says it comes with a flat tappet cam 24502476 I was hopefull it would be a roller COME ON GM

So I made a call to the GM machine and hopefully the right people will be contacted on the issue :chevy:

"steps down drops mic" :lol:

Gregski 03-22-2016 04:49 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by daddyjeep (Post 7531520)
I will 3rd the Rotella. That is what I used for the engine in the Jeep last year.

my buddy who used to run it in his old GTO said couple guys at two different shops said don't do it cause Diesel motor oils contain harmful detergents for gasoline engines, so the plot thickens

Gregski 03-22-2016 04:52 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
now I also heard you don't want to use a multi weight oil for the break in but should run a 30 weight instead, The Greg's head is about to explode

Valarius_Starchaser 03-22-2016 05:19 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Well your only breaking in the came so its not as "crucial" I have heard of guys with good success doing none straight weight 30 in a tight spot with fair results but I have never messed with it as I have always had it available and never have seen a need to risk it I found an alternative for you by the way greg if this one does "blow up" due to my attempted help

GM part number 19201333 I will cut you a deal buddy :lol:

enaberif 03-22-2016 05:49 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 7531755)
now I also heard you don't want to use a multi weight oil for the break in but should run a 30 weight instead, The Greg's head is about to explode

Don't let your head expode. Just run 10w30 or 10w40 and let er run hard for 20 minutes

enaberif 03-22-2016 05:53 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 7531753)
my buddy who used to run it in his old GTO said couple guys at two different shops said don't do it cause Diesel motor oils contain harmful detergents for gasoline engines, so the plot thickens

You will hear people say Rotella is and you will hear people say Rotella is bad. You can buy a ZDDP supplement to add to any old type of oil if your that worried.

For example:
http://zddplus.com/

68Timber 03-22-2016 06:14 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Doesn't Comp Cams still sell their break-in oil? I can't imagine they wouldn't. Break it in with that and be done with it, run something like Valvoline VR1 or anything w/some zddp in it after that. One episode of pretrol primates they blew up a new motor trying to break it in with cheap motor oil and a bottle of zddp additive. They used a good break in oil after getting it rebuilt again. Use something decent made for break-in and fuggetaboutit.

Jake Wade 03-22-2016 07:59 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Greg, Get some of this:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/crn-99002-1/overview/

Coat all the lobes with it, rub it in good, Also the bottoms of the lifters before installation.

Has served me well for years.

Valvoline VR-1 conventional oil in the silver bottle or Brad Penn breakin oil is what I use for flat tappets.

hatzie 03-22-2016 09:03 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 7531753)
my buddy who used to run it in his old GTO said couple guys at two different shops said don't do it cause Diesel motor oils contain harmful detergents for gasoline engines, so the plot thickens

Complete baloney...
The bearings in a diesel engine are made from the same steel copper and babbit as the gasoline engines.

Detergent in the oil keeps crud in suspension and can knock loose filth in a sludged up motor. Diesel oils have more detergents to keep the carbon suspended so it doesn't sludge up your motor to begin with. The origination of this rumor is probably that you can get into real trouble on old poorly maintained motors that were run on non detergent or poor detergent oils by changing to high detergent diesel oils... Detergents and dispersants tend to knock a lot of the sludge loose in a hurry and plug stuff up.

Diesel oils tend to have more generous quantities of anti-wear additives like Boron, Zinc & Phosphorous (Zinc Dialkyl Dithio Phospahte), and Molybdenum than Spark ignition only oils. With the tightened emissions requirements put in place around 2007 they don't have the phosphorous or zinc levels they used to.

If you're installing a new cam I'd run a break in oil like Joe Gibbs till it's fully broken in and then run the Rotella T5.
I run 5W40 Rotella T6 in my LS4 Impala, 2 6.5L diesels, and my Polaris Sportsman 500HO ATV. The 6.2L CUCV and the LDT 465 Continental in the M35A2 get 15W40 Rotella T5.

Look at the API seal on the back of the jug.
Rotella T5 is at least SM and CJ-4 rated. S is Spark ignition C is Compression (diesel) ignition.

Gregski 03-22-2016 09:31 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
3 Attachment(s)
well gentlemen when the Greg gets in the zone he gets in the zone, I'm sure you've been there where you just put you head down and git 'er done, well today was such a day, a good day, so lets get to the updates

came home from work and turned up the paint booth to 61*F plus and dropped the humidity to the low 40% and busted out my paint guns

check it out this dude's shooting primer on his tin first, he's Legit!

painted the timing cover

Gregski 03-22-2016 09:33 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
3 Attachment(s)
painted the valve covers

Gregski 03-22-2016 09:35 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
2 Attachment(s)
even the oil pan joined the party, for a light dusting of a touch up

Gregski 03-22-2016 09:41 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
5 Attachment(s)
a while back the Alan Grove knock off mid mount alternator bracket showed up so it got a coat of sexy Semi Flat black paint too

the bracket is painted black in the last pic, whether the sun wants us to see it that way or not, lol

Gregski 03-22-2016 09:45 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
4 Attachment(s)
than the fraternal twins showed up and they wanted to get in on the action, apparently they were not too happy with their white "silver" coating, and I don't blame them - so they opted for the Cast Iron sheen but of a higher temperment than the engine Enamel

these are the as before shots

Gregski 03-22-2016 09:50 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
4 Attachment(s)
and after the upteenth coat they turned out great, I absolutely love this color now

used the same VHT brand as before except a darker color - do you like?

Gregski 03-22-2016 09:59 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
3 Attachment(s)
and don't forget this little feller

chevybuldr 03-22-2016 11:19 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
http://www.drivenracingoil.com/#prettyPhoto/0/

This man knows what he is talking about. It might sound like just an ad to sell oil but I have met him and read a lot from other people, he knows what he is talking about. Diesel motor oils have had a lot of the ZDDP's removed from their oils. It used to be a common thing to used Delo or Rotella but not anymore. Also the ZDDP's work at a different operating temp. A diesel motor has higher internal engine temps compared to a gas motor. Straight 30 weight is a thing of old. Either use a break-in oil or use a 10-30 with the additive. If you are going to use synthetic then wait about 5,000 miles before making the change.

I have a camshaft at work from a brand new motor. 5 lobes went flat instantly because the mechanic decided he did not need to put in the additive that we gave him. There are so many opinions on this and its an on going debate. Again watch the video its explains a lot.

SkinnyG 03-23-2016 12:43 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
I have a lumpy flat-tappet cam with some fairly stiff valve springs.

I used Comp Cams break-in oil for the first 20 minutes to break in the cam. Then drained the oil (don't look at it, trust me).

I then used Comp Cams break-in-oil to go break in the rings for about 100kms. Then drained the oil.

I currently use Lucas Hot Rod oil with every oil change.

http://www.buylucasoil.com/img/Lucas....%20bottle.jpg

UKNOWME 03-23-2016 12:50 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 7532072)

came home from work and turned up the paint booth to 61*F plus and dropped the humidity to the low 40% and busted out my paint guns

That's funny!

SkinnyG 03-23-2016 12:55 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Oh, I also bought a 7/8" ball hone to make sure the lifter bores would allow the new lifters to rotate. No lobes lost yet (over two years of daily driving).


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