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-   -   Restoring Rusty (https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=645440)

Gregski 05-21-2018 08:47 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeB (Post 8265623)
If Greg is into black, he might want to jump on this deal:https://www.ebay.com/itm/Weiand-8120...MAAOSwzRFaVUXh

Thanks, Mike, if you were to read this thread in its entirety and I don't suggest you do, no one is, ha ha you would see that The Greg had a Weiand intake manifold already and was very dissatisfied with the machining and sold it on Craigslist to some dude who was going to mount it on his boat engine, I took that as using it as a boat anchor, ha ha

MikeB 05-21-2018 11:38 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 8265681)
TThe Greg had a Weiand intake manifold already and was very dissatisfied with the machining...

I've had four of them over the years, the first probably made in the USA in the early 90s. What a concept! The next two were machined OK, but had rough castings. The last one is an 8121 Vortec manifold I have on my truck's 355. It has a very nice casting.

I like the the Weiand 812x series because they have more modern ports than comparable Edelbrock Performer and EPS. But the Edelbrocks do have nicer, or at least more consistent, castings for sure. Hard to beat that 7101 Performer RPM in a 350-406. It's possibly the best aftermarket small block manifold ever made.

As for head gaskets, yes, a .028" composition gasket would raise compression a little (approx 0.3) and lower the quench height. But I don't know if any gains would be worth the cost and effort.

Gregski 06-06-2018 10:58 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
5 Attachment(s)
Parts...

So bought two different style push rod geometry measurement tools, and .100" longer pushrods (per Edelbrock's recommendation) these are cheap Summit brand but they got decent reviews and I just want to see if the noise will subside with longer rods

one is still being shipped so not shown below

Gregski 06-06-2018 11:01 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
Parts cont...

as well as a two pack of Edelbrock screw in replacement rocker studs (one of mine came stripped but I made it work) and some Summit brand tall valve covers in case I end up going to full roller rockers...

Gregski 06-08-2018 11:53 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
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so the adjustable push rod checker came in finally

Gregski 06-08-2018 11:56 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
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it's Friday and I am off today, so with these two different style pushrod length, and valve train geometry checkers as well as infinite YouTube wisdom I am armed with all I need to get rid of that rocker chatter / noise

rusty76 06-09-2018 03:55 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Good luck. You got this.

Gregski 06-10-2018 10:02 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rusty76 (Post 8278100)
Good luck. You got this.

Thank you bud, you are always very positive and supportive.

Gregski 06-10-2018 10:06 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
OK, let me start off by saying there are Two Schools of Thought when it comes to proper pushrod length and valve geomety.

1. One says the rocker should leave a mark in the center of the valve stem.
  • if the mark is above horizontal center line (and closer to the intake manifold) then the pushrod is too short
  • if the mark is below the horizontal centerline (closer to the exhaust manifold) then the pushrod is too long

2. The other says no no no, that's not how you do it, because the rocker pivots on a fixed point therefore travels at an arch.

Gregski 06-10-2018 10:16 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
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so to prepare for this surgery you take off the spark plug cables off the plugs and remove the spark plugs, this will allow you to rotate the engine much easier, not having to fight the compression, you also remove the valve covers and loosen up at least two rocker arm stud nuts (one intake one exhaust) so you can mark the tip of the valve stem

one way to find that mark is to use an Easy erase marker (instead of a Sharpy)

Gregski 06-10-2018 10:21 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
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then you wipe off all the oil off the rocker tip only (so it don't wash away the ink) and tighten the rocker back on the valve and pushrod just so its snug (no extra quarter turn no extra 1/2 turn, etc.)

then you rotate the engine by hand at least once, and you watch the valve open and close ie go up and down

then you loosen the rocker arm and stare at the mark

in our case the test with the original pushrods looks good, looks right int he middle, though the factory stamped rockers don't exactly have a fine tip and are more forgiving so I think that explains the wide mark, (donno?)

DISCLAIMER: No the rocker did not fall off the valve, it was moved out of the way to show us the mark. Some of my buddies who saw the pic, were like all, hey oh no the rocker fell off, no...

Gregski 06-10-2018 10:30 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
2 Attachment(s)
and this is the second test this time with the new + .100" longer pushrod as recommended by the manufacturer of my aluminum cylinder heads, aka Edelbrock

as you can see the longer pushrods will be Too Long! as they leave a mark below the horizontal center line (closer to the exhaust manifold

second pic both #6 cylinder Intake and Exhaust valves tested with the longer pushrods

Gregski 06-10-2018 10:33 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
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this is just a perspective shot as if you were standing in front of your truck and looking at the passenger side cylinder head

in this shot you can see what I am talking about when I say the line is closer to the left ie the exhaust side of the engine vs the right ie the intake manifold side of the engine

just trying to help folks, just trying to help, I ain't no expert, ha ha, just learning, and having fun, and sharing

Gregski 06-10-2018 10:37 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT:

These blue plastic pushrod checkers are completely worthless, useless, so don't waste your money. The problem with them is there is no index for where the pushrod should sit on the long end of the checker so it slides forwards and backwards giving you a bad reading all the time, both my short and long pushrods measured OK according to this piece of junk.

Gregski 06-10-2018 10:43 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
so at this point I decided to keep my original L31 Vortec engine pushrods and I went through the vavle adjustment process all over again this time tightening each rocker stud 1/2* passed snug (last time I only did 1/4* turn)

a quick test drive showed NO IMPROVEMENT and continued rocker chatter but I don't think the rig was fully warmed up yet, so instead of crawling up into the fetal position I decided I will drive it to work for a week and report back

if this don't work I will try adjusting the rockers with the engine running using those tall brand new Summit valve covers after I cut a long hole int he top of them (cutting new parts - whimper)

if that don't work I am buying brand new Comp Cams full roller rockers and giving those a go, my logic being maybe the stamped rockers are just chatter prone, though I had a '97 Tahoe with them and that SUV engine ranned smooth, so who knows

so as always remember: sometimes the Man wins and sometimes the Truck!!!

thanks for readin'

Gregski 06-10-2018 11:45 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
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truck doing truck things...

Gregski 06-10-2018 11:48 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
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new tool being added to the Busten Knuckle Garage stable

can you guess what project is coming up next?

Gregski 06-10-2018 11:54 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
3 Attachment(s)
parts... (complements of RockAuto)

I gotta say we are coming up on one year in our new house, this one we own instead of renting, well the bank owns it but you get the idea, the point being as my daughter said: "daddy we won't have to move this summer" nope honey we aint gonna have to move this summer

those of you who have been along for the ride since the beginning know that Rusty has been in four different garages in the last four years, that can wreck havoc on your "restoration" project

but now we are getting our groove back!

Gregski 06-10-2018 11:56 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
4 Attachment(s)
Full Disclosure: Dummy over here bought twice the amount of bushings we needed, cause well I didn't know two come in a box!

Note The: Made in India, Made in China - - - Nice! gotta be good, ha ha so much for the ACDelco genuine parts

Gregski 06-10-2018 12:02 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
3 Attachment(s)
also decided to buy new 2" drop front coil springs since we've been driving around on cut ones, a few years back I tried McGuphies 2" dropped coil springs and they dropped my front end 4" inches, not acceptable, so then I cut one loop off of my stock ones, which gave me a proper 2" drop and a stiff ride, so it's time to do it right, this time using Western Chassis parts, they are much better

Gregski 06-10-2018 12:07 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
2 Attachment(s)
so we start with the Passenger Side as it has way too much negative Camber (big word alert) for some reason - and we are about to find out why

we make a few mental notes of how the upper control arm is aligned forward and aft and how much the bushings stick out if any

Gregski 06-10-2018 12:09 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
3 Attachment(s)
we also mentalize how many alignment spacers there was in the front and the back, and lay they out nicely for roll call

if we put them back where we found them we will still need to get an alignment done but we will at least have a decent starting point

Gregski 06-10-2018 12:15 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty - Lower Control Arm
 
1 Attachment(s)
I like to loosen the lower control arm first from the bottom of the frame using a jack to compress the spring, then you lower it gently and the spring comes right out

here I am resting the heavy lower control arm as it is still attached to the spindle, they get stuck after 40 plus years of service and need a little gentle persuasion

Gregski 06-10-2018 12:18 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
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here's the anatomy of the Driver Side lower control arm

Gregski 06-10-2018 12:21 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
3 Attachment(s)
the upper control arm was next

Gregski 06-10-2018 12:24 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
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naturally this one is bound to fight you as well... like the lower one did on the other side, ha ha

Gregski 06-10-2018 12:25 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
and the anatomy of the upper control arm

Gregski 06-10-2018 12:29 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
3 Attachment(s)
SUPER IMPORTANT: Lessons Learned

Unlike the lower control arms the bushings in the upper control arms do NOT get pressed all the way in, this my friends may drive you a bit crazy if you don't pay attention to this fact. Don't ask how I know, ha ha

I suggest you take some measurements of your old setup before pressing these out so you have an idea of the width you are shooting for later

also I learned why they sell new upper control arms, as they tend to warp and shift and bend and twist

Gregski 06-10-2018 12:32 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
Alright, now what?

rusty76 06-11-2018 04:29 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
I’m anxious to see how this plays out. I’ve watched a few videos and seen guys replace the bushings before but never did it myself.

hatzie 06-11-2018 05:53 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
The most exciting thing about replacing the lower A-Am bushings is the coil springs...

I usually use brandy new U-bolts on the lower arms.

Make sure the aligment studs on the upper mount are in good shape and replace em if there's any question.

Gm used some kind of green threadlocker on the crossmember to frame bolts... at least they did on my 85 and the 86 I cabbaged the front crossmember from.

Gregski 06-11-2018 07:45 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty - Upper Control Arm
 
3 Attachment(s)
so first let me show you how to press out the bushing out of the upper control arm the hard way ie using the Harbor Freight 12 ton press

and just so you know I had to do this with a buddy system because a press is not the proper tool for this especially if you don't have any dies or metal props to wedge under to make the A arm level etc...

this will get one bushing out on one side...

Gregski 06-11-2018 07:49 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty - Upper Control Arm
 
3 Attachment(s)
alright now to get the other side out I had to improvise and use a pipe that I happened to have to press the other bushing out

hard work and dangerous...

Gregski 06-11-2018 07:57 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty - Ball Joint / U-Join Press Set
 
4 Attachment(s)
and here is a tool I rented from AutoZone that made the process so much easier to both press in and remove the bushings from the upper control arms

EverTough part # 67045

Ball Joint / U-Join Press Set

I know it says Ball Joint on it but it does the bushings too

Gregski 06-12-2018 09:25 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty - Upper Control Arm
 
5 Attachment(s)
in order to get the original rivitted ball joint off we had to use the 4" grinder aka the Death Wheel

at first I tried the trick of just grinding the middle just enough to cut the width f the stem, but that wasn't enough

Gregski 06-12-2018 09:32 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty - Upper Control Arm
 
3 Attachment(s)
and so the grinding continued until finally we were able to use a punch and a 3 pound sledge to get the upper ball joint off

not pretty but it got the job done, the new replacement ball joints are bolt in

Fun Level = 2

Gregski 06-12-2018 09:34 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty - Lower Control Arm
 
1 Attachment(s)
the lower control arm we pounded out the bushings after kinking them in a bit like so, at least on one side, maybe we used the press for the other side

Gregski 06-12-2018 09:37 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty - Lower Control Arm
 
1 Attachment(s)
this is the lower control arm with the new ball joint pressed in, the ball joints are not rivitted to the lower control arms they just snap out and in using the shop press and some pipe or square tubing in our case as a jig

DISCLAIMER: note how the game changes when you go from a restore project truck to your daily driver, I did not paint these old control arms Roadkill style and just replaced the warn out parts and bolted them back up, shame on me

Gregski 06-12-2018 09:40 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
a little stare and compare of my old stock coil spring which I cut one loop off of to lower the truck 2" and the new Western Chassis 2" propper drop coil springs, I really like these springs they fit good and the ride is great, you buy them through Performance Online and they are cheaper than directly from Western Chassis for some strange reason

Gregski 06-12-2018 09:48 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
You know you got a Chevy when you buy your parts by the bucket, ha ha

these are new upper control arm shaft (assemblies) I just needed the metal shafts but NAPA only sold them as sets or kits which included the bushings, oh great, now I have three sets of bushings per side, lol

my passenger side shaft was mangled so I decided to replace both of them for evenability


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