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-   -   Restoring Rusty (https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=645440)

Gregski 04-10-2016 10:02 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
ladies and gentelmen, I may have pointed this out before, but it's worth saying again, I have picked out my truck for as much as it didn't have as for what it had

I did not want a 4x4, I did not want an Automatic, I did not want Air Conditioning, I did not want 3/4 ton or a 1 ton truck, nor did I want a long bed.

I wanted a 2WD, 350 V8, manual, short bed, plain Jane, dime a doze (or so I thought, but these plain trucks are harder to find than you know), simple and easy to work on.

And I pretty much got all that, but one thing. Ok, two things I wish the truck had.
1. OVERDRIVE TRANSMISSION, I had no idea going beyond 1:1 ratio wouldn't become the norm till the 80's lol when I bought my beloved '74

2. POSI rear end, I mean paleaze One Wheel Peels are for kidz, ha ha, more on that later [spoiler alert]
and so The Greg went Big Game a hunting for a very rare albino samoan polar bear unit called the New Process 833 trans-a-mission

and on one faithful day back in December '15 he found one

AND WHAT AN ABSOLUTE BEAUTY SHE WAS ~ TAKE A LOOK ~

Craigslist Condition: "Mint"

Gregski 04-10-2016 10:10 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
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now there may be some overlap coming up with my other thread called What can be said about the 4-speed New Process NV833 overdrive manual transmission? which you may or may not have seen, I apologize for the redundancy and will try to keep this more on point of the upgrade and installation process and not bore you to death with regurgitated "facts" and "specs" of that unit that I just happened to gleen off the InterWebs pretending to be a self proclaimed expert on the topic, ha ha

so how much did The Greg drop on this thing? $300 bucks, $500 dollars, surely no more than $750 bones? WHAT? he paid NINE HUNDRED AND FIFTY DOLLARS for it, what a dope!!!

Wait, and he drove over 350 miles one way to pick it up! ah jeez, I gotta hear him explain his way out of this one, lemme pull up a chair

Gregski 04-10-2016 10:21 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
wow, tough crowd, tough crowd

well guys let me share some insight with you, things I learned along the way while researching this trans, as it may help you

I went the Saginaw 4 speed route and the Muncie 4 speed route first and learned those transmissions were not overdrive transmissions, I was surprised, I did not realize there was no overdrive in the 60's (you know what I mean, I mean not every car had it, I'm sure some did) not even in the 70's

cars ran around with 2 speed automatics for crying out loud with names like Powerglide, and then the 3 speed automatics called Turbo this and that, (non of it being Turbo in any way mind you) then there were 3 on the Tree manuals, wow THREE GEARS really, sounds cool Three on The Tree, but honestly wheres the other gear, LOL

OK, so I punted on the 60s/70s technology and fast forwarded to the 90s ok I will get an NV3500, wait what? they are weak, they come on six banger trucks, ok what about their big brother the NV4500, ok better, but wait the case is longer the stick is going to be between my girlfriends legs, and then theres the whole Getrag mix up confusion (say what? GetWho?) yeah there's the German overbuilt overcomplicated unit that looks like the NV4500 to the uninitiated [pronounced] ME and if you pull the wrong one at the junkyard no one in the States will touch it - go ahead Google it [we'll wait]...

... and then there's the speedo electronic connection instead of the cable, and this and thats, and nope, we'll punt on the 90's tech

OK, back to the 80s, hmmm wonder if these trucks ever came with Overdrive transmissions from the factory? Say what? They did? Thank you Wikipedia.

and that's how we got ourselves one of them 1980-85ish ... (87ish) New Process 833 units

enaberif 04-10-2016 10:28 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Its funny how we want so many options out of a truck but always have to settle simply because what we want isn't available. Where I live short box trucks are almost impossible to find in the 73-87 and 88-98 era so you usually end up with a long box unfortunately.

As you also have found the NV3500/4500 are not that great of transmissions as the stated reasons about but one thing about the 4500 that is even worse is it requires a special type of fluid that is STUPID expensive from the dealership. NV3500s have an issue with the 5th/Reverse nut coming off randomly and losing those gears.

For the 73-87 era and 2wd trucks the A833 is a perfect choice IF you can find them and for the 88-98 era the T56 is a good choice as well.

Gregski 04-10-2016 10:38 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
5 Attachment(s)
so after looking for one for over a year, sure missing a good deal here and there, you know how that goes, you hesitate to pull the trigger than you wish you had - I finally found one, the guy wanted $950 for it and would not budge on the price (I know I tried to negotiate, honest I did, I'm not made of money)

but to sweeten the deal and justify the cost he inclduded / threw in the following
1. The HURST shifter and linkage (later we found out one rod was missing, and the threads on the stick were broken)

2. The dual bolt pattern bellhousing (we thought it was for the hydraulic clutch but it wasn't, and later we found out the trans was dual bolt pattern also)

3. The crossmember (that we needed)

4. The clutch disc and pressure plate (who uses used parts anyways)

5. The pedals (we thought it uses different pedals cause of the hydraulic clutch)

Oberon67 04-10-2016 10:44 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 7555132)
wow, tough crowd, tough crowd

well guys let me share some insight with you, things I learned along the way while researching this trans, as it may help you

I went the Saginaw 4 speed route and the Muncie 4 speed route first and learned those transmissions were not overdrive transmissions, I was surprised, I did not realize there was no overdrive in the 60's (you know what I mean, I mean not every car had it, I'm sure some did) not even in the 70's

cars ran around with 2 speed automatics for crying out loud with names like Powerglide, and then the 3 speed automatics called Turbo this and that, (non of it being Turbo in any way mind you) then there were 3 on the Tree manuals, wow THREE GEARS really, sounds cool Three on The Tree, but honestly wheres the other gear, LOL

OK, so I punted on the 60s/70s technology and fast forwarded to the 90s ok I will get an NV3500, wait what? they are weak, they come on six banger trucks, ok what about their big brother the NV4500, ok better, but wait the case is longer the stick is going to be between my girlfriends legs, and then theres the whole Getrag mix up confusion (say what? GetWho?) yeah there's the German overbuilt overcomplicated unit that looks like the NV4500 to the uninitiated [pronounced] ME and if you pull the wrong one at the junkyard no one in the States will touch it - go ahead Google it [we'll wait]...

... and then there's the speedo electronic connection instead of the cable, and this and thats, and nope, we'll punt on the 90's tech

OK, back to the 80s, hmmm wonder if these trucks ever came with Overdrive transmissions from the factory? Say what? They did? Thank you Wikipedia.

and that's how we got ourselves one of them 1980-85ish ... (87ish) New Process 833 units

Was there a reason why you didn't just go with the Muncie, and put a lower rear-end ratio in it?

Gregski 04-10-2016 10:48 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon67 (Post 7555151)
Was there a reason why you didn't just go with the Muncie, and put a lower rear-end ratio in it?

Honestly, cause I'm not that smart, but I'm learning, and wouldn't that effect my gitty up, in other words if I put in highway gears in the diff to cruise at 75 MPH at about 2500 RPM wouldn't my truck be slower off the line, yet with an overdrive trans I get the best of both worlds a "quick" and I use that term loosely, LOL truck off the line and a happy truck on the freeway

Gregski 04-10-2016 11:00 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
4 Attachment(s)
so The Greg began cleaning the parts for the new transmission, starting with the new cross member, I have not pulled out my old cross member yet for a stare and compare but I think they is different

the new one I think is multi talented in that it (I'm taking a guess here) can support the TH350 Trubo 350 automatic as well as the 833 manual, correct me if I am wrong, I think it is also rubber mounted, oh yeah this is where I tell you the donor truck was a 1984 supposedly (I never saw it)

Gregski 04-10-2016 11:01 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
2 Attachment(s)
and into the paint booth it went, actually used POR15 on this baby for durability, I like painting things with a brush, need to do that more, spraying wastes a lot more prodcut

Titomars 04-10-2016 11:18 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 7555122)

so how much did The Greg drop on this thing? $300 bucks, $500 dollars, surely no more than $750 bones? WHAT? he paid NINE HUNDRED AND FIFTY DOLLARS for it, what a dope!!!

Wait, and he drove over 350 miles one way to pick it up! ah jeez, I gotta hear him explain his way out of this one, lemme pull up a chair

Hummm, I have been following your other thread. Low and behold the other night I saw a GM 833 on C/L the guy is asking $400.00
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/pts/5513697175.html

At one time I really wanted to convert mine over to a 4 spd. But not a truck 4 spd. being a big block only one 4 spd. would do me. The rare and disgustingly expensive M22 rock-crusher. I finally decided that a built TH400 would do me.

Titomars 04-10-2016 11:21 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 7555167)
so The Greg began cleaning the parts for the new transmission, starting with the new cross member, I have not pulled out my old cross member yet for a stare and compare but I think they is different

the new one I think is multi talented in that it (I'm taking a guess here) can support the TH350 Trubo 350 automatic as well as the 833 manual, correct me if I am wrong, I think it is also rubber mounted, oh yeah this is where I tell you the donor truck was a 1984 supposedly (I never saw it)

That is multi talented looks just like a 4X4 cross member.

Gregski 04-10-2016 11:24 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
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the transmission bracket that goes between the transmission and the crossmember looks different than the one for the SM465 granny gear Muncie, slightly different, they both attach to the trans with two bolts and that top part matches, but the bottom is different the Muncie attaches with two bolts, the 833 uses just one

top Muncie bracket

bottom 833 bracket

keep in mind I have not done this swap yet, I am in the process so if I state or make any mistakes, please correct me

Gregski 04-10-2016 11:31 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Titomars (Post 7555185)
Hummm, I have been following your other thread. Low and behold the other night I saw a GM 833 on C/L the guy is asking $400.00
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/pts/5513697175.html

Oh my, that is an EXCELLENT deal especially since it comes with the linkage and shifter and bell housing, someone ought to snatch it up!

and I was just in the Bay yesterday dang it

Titomars 04-10-2016 11:31 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 7555191)
the transmission bracket that goes between the transmission and the crossmember looks different than the one for the SM465 granny gear Muncie, slightly different, they both attach to the trans with two bolts and that top part matches, but the bottom is different the Muncie attaches with two bolts, the 833 uses just one

top Muncie bracket

bottom 833 bracket

keep in mind I have not done this swap yet, I am in the process so if I state or make any mistakes, please correct me

you can use the 2 bolt if you like dependent on your cross member. Or if you have a preference of one or two bolts. mount height is the only thing you might need to watch for. GM used basically 2 different heights. the difference is about 1 inch between the two

Titomars 04-10-2016 11:36 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 7555201)
Oh my, that is an EXCELLENT deal especially since it comes with the linkage and shifter and bell housing, someone ought to snatch it up!

and I was just in the Bay yesterday dang it

I had thought about one of these back when I was wanting a manual transmission. But I deemed it not strong enough for my 454. ;)

Gregski 04-10-2016 11:36 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
alright lets see these beauties side by side

833 on top

Muncie on bottom

Gregski 04-10-2016 11:42 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Titomars (Post 7555206)
I had thought about one of these back when I was wanting a manual transmission. But I deemed it not strong enough for my 454. ;)

are you saying it may work with my old Muncie crossmember? this one with that big drop in the middle?

Gregski 04-10-2016 11:46 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
3 Attachment(s)
I think I am going to use the new bell housing just because I don't like the pointy Bermuda triangle in my old one, it just gets in the way, no idea what it's for

plus since both the bell and the trans have the dual bolt patterns I may put in a few extra bolts just for good measure, to control that torque monster, ha ha

Titomars 04-10-2016 11:51 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 7555218)
are you saying it may work with my old Muncie crossmember? this one with that big drop in the middle?

Looking at your photos...... Yes it appears you could. the 833 member bolts to the bottom of the frame rails and the Muncie obviously bolts to the top. if you look closely you will see your frame has extra cross member holes in it for the many different trans options. Also the 833 member bolts to the underside of the rail flange

Gregski 04-10-2016 11:57 AM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Titomars (Post 7555189)
That is multi talented looks just like a 4X4 cross member.

OK, that makes sense. But wait a minute. The seller said his boys were going to convert an automatic 4x4 truck to the 833 manual, and I pulled this crossmember off of the 4x4 automatic truck not quite understanding what the dad was telling me I was just grabbing what ever parts he was willing to part with. So maybe this crossmember will work with my trans, or maybe I didn't even need it.

One thing I just learned looking at my old pics of my crossmember, is that mine is mounted high to the top frame rail ie C channel where as the new crossmember I believe was mounted down low to the bottom of the frame rail C channel.

Gregski 04-10-2016 12:01 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
5 Attachment(s)
and so the Greg cleaned and clear coated another bell housing

Gregski 04-10-2016 12:09 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
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as a matter of fact got the entire new trans into the cleaning and clearing facility, who says patio tables don't make excellent transmission stands, LOL

man and I've always wondered what that round hole in the middle of that table was for while sippin' on my umbrella drink by the pool side!

Rob C 04-10-2016 12:15 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Go Go Go Gregski!! :metal:

Gregski 04-10-2016 12:24 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
3 Attachment(s)
alright lets talk shifters, linkages, sticks and all things HURST as this is the brains of the entire operation

first let me just say that HURST was the Apple before APPLE existed (yes I am talking about the makes of the white phones)

if you think about it HURST created a need, well actually a want, I mean were people really tripping over themselves for external complicated linkages to change their gears, I mean they leave the shifter exposed to the elements under the gosh darn car, dirt, grime, water, snow, rain, it all gets up in there, why not just put the stick in the transmission where it is nicely covered up, but I degress

so the GM HURST shifter, which Lesson Number 1 is no HURST shifter at all, well it kinda is, let me explain

GM bought the shifter mechanism from HURST the bottom / the base part but being a Car Company [pronounced] "Cheap" thats all they bought, they did NOT buy the HURST stick, that's right they made their own Generic sticks and shoved them in there, so when you pull up those three pages of HURST shifters on the InterWebs you will not see our shifter on there, sure you'll see a couple that may look like it but it aint ours, that's all I am sayin'

on to Lesson # 2 make sure you get the linkage with the transmission when you buy it, when in doubt read Lesson Number 2 again. This again is not HURST linkage so don't bother looking for these sticks or fingers what ever you want to call them on the HURST's website you aint gonna find them, and if you is missing one like the Greg was you will have to argue with a know it all eBayer that what he has is not for a 4x4 only truck and that indeed it will work on a 2WD so please just sell it to me already, ha ha

yes I had to pay $100 bucks for a set of three fingers of which I really only needed one, but hey I had to get the right proprietery GM ones, know what I'm sayin' because that's how I roll

Gregski 04-10-2016 12:30 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
3 Attachment(s)
here's what the GM finger brackets tabbies say on them, notice the 3 & OD one that is money, the Mopar ones say 3 & 4

Gregski 04-10-2016 12:36 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
3 Attachment(s)
now some may say dude it don't matter, but if you look at those pesky brackets they have notches cut out in them so they go no the bolt a certain way, and let me tell you, you young whipper snappers those pesky notches have different angles so I don't think you can just snag a set of the Mopar A833 brackets and just bolt them up, plus one be upside down to make the Overdrive magic happen, but again we won't get into that here, that's what my other thread was for

I'm just going to PAUSE here for a moment and ask you this: Do you appreciate the great detail The Greg shares with you hear? Do you? LOL

Gregski 04-10-2016 12:45 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
4 Attachment(s)
which brings us to Lesson Numero Tres in the self help guide to the GM HURST sticks

actually here is something I want to share that I learned about the HURST shifters, there are two different kind, well in terms of mating the stick to the shifter mechanism, 90% of them are the Bolt On type, you know you have the stick, it has two holes on the bottom, you use two bolts to bolt it up to the shifter box thingie and Bob's your uncle... well then there's the other kind, the Slip In type. Say what? This is the type where there is no bolts holding the stick to the shifter mechanism, instead the stick only has one hole at the bottom and you are supposed to use two rubber pieces and two metal clips like the ones below to lock it into place

why that's crazy talk Greg!?

Gregski 04-10-2016 12:53 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
3 Attachment(s)
so can you guess which type GM decided to use on our trucks?

that's right the rarererer Slip-In kind, and to show how confident they were in that ideaology they decided to weld the darn thing to the receiver, that's right GM welded their proprietery "generic" sticks to the base of the shifter mechanism, I suspect cause they were falling out, I suspect because GM forgot to drill a hole in the base of their sticks to allow the metal clips to clip them in and lock them in place like HURST intended, but I may be totally wrong - which I'm not, JK

People's Exhibit A, an excavated GM stick from said Slip In receiver, notice the lack of a hole in the base

Gregski 04-10-2016 01:00 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
3 Attachment(s)
alright having liberated the headless "generic" stick from the HURST receiver (and by headless I mean it aint got a ball on it cause it aint got threads on it) now we could go a shopping for the real deal and so we did

ta da, we got ourselves a real deal Hurst shifter part number 4331

will it work? will it clear the dash? the bench seat?

who cares man, its a real HURST stick, ha ha

Gregski 04-10-2016 01:04 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Do you know what I like most about HURST shifters?
  • how gosh darn modular they are, everything is it's own part, there are a million pieces there to join together

Do you know what I like the least about HURST shifters?
  • how gosh darn modular they are, everything is it's own part, there are a million pieces there to join together

Gregski 04-10-2016 01:11 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
2 Attachment(s)
which brings us to today, now I could just drill the two holes in my stick bottom to bolt up the new shifter but in order to do things right so that the Greg can sleep at night I need to order the proper bottom piece for the Bolt On stick fortunately it's only $15 bucks but wait its a HURST component or one of a million parts that you'll need so we also need the Hurst 1950053 Manual Shifter Stiffener Mounting Plate w Bolts

HURST Straight Stick Bottom for Bolt On Shifter Handle Part #s H0008, 2390008

enaberif 04-10-2016 03:44 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
FYI.. Early NP203 transfer cases used a Hurst labelled shifter like in your pics.

Gregski 04-10-2016 05:31 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
3 Attachment(s)
one of the things that be different about the 833 trans and the SM465 is the Backup Switch the 833 uses a more modern looking type, like so

Gregski 04-10-2016 05:34 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
3 Attachment(s)
which in turn requires a new pig tail connector for which my local parts houses want [wait for it] .... $25 BUCKS!!! [pronounced] Highway Robbery - technological progress be damned

man I am gonna git one from the junk yard this week, we'll see how much they want for a used one, ha ha

400/400 04-10-2016 05:45 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
At my local auto parts store they sell the components of those connectors individually for far less than a pigtail. You just need the two pins, two weather seals and the plastic connector. You can also order the pieces online.

400/400 04-10-2016 05:53 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
Here's what they look like disassembled. This is a three wire version.

Gregski 04-10-2016 06:08 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 400/400 (Post 7555627)
Here's what they look like disassembled. This is a three wire version.

Interesting and very cool, thank you for sharing, what's the name of the parts house up in "sunny" Minnesota?

Gregski 04-10-2016 06:13 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
well chiverly timbers, I sure wished I paid more attention when I took off these enjin cross member support brackets as they come with two longer bolts and two shorter ones, anybody knows where which ones go, top or bottom type a thing - they looked the same to me as I removed them and tossed them on the garage floor carefully, LOL

not sure I knew the different sizes when I laid them our for this there anatomy photo

400/400 04-10-2016 06:21 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 7555643)
Interesting and very cool, thank you for sharing, what's the name of the parts house up in "sunny" Minnesota?

No problem. It's a NAPA. Although it my be "sunny" up here it's still chilly. Yesterday morning was 16 degrees. Can't wait for it to start warming up.

hatzie 04-10-2016 06:30 PM

Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 7555608)
which in turn requires a new pig tail connector for which my local parts houses want [wait for it] .... $25 BUCKS!!! [pronounced] Highway Robbery - technological progress be damned

man I am gonna git one from the junk yard this week, we'll see how much they want for a used one, ha ha

Good lord. That's $2.15 in parts and shipping is $5-$8. Less than half that pigtail and you can use SXL wire rather than the GP series wire they used.
Mouser Electronics sells Weatherpack terminals and shells.
12015792 two position tower shell $1.33 x 1
12089188 Terminals $0.31 x 2
15324982 Green seals $0.10 x 2
You can get kits on Amazon for $7.99 with Prime shipping.www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004DVM7RG
A $30 crimp tool will do the job if you aren't doing a bunch of them. http://www.amazon.com/Delphi-Packard-Weatherpack-C... http://www.amazon.com/Delphi-Packard-Weatherpack-C... If you're playing with antique GM vehicles you'll do more.
The Delphi Ratchet Crimping Tool 12085270 is a very nice tool that will handle Weatherpack, Packard 56 & 59, along with Metripack 150-280 connectors. It's also $90


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