Gonna start drag racing with my pulling engine...need assistance

[DieselEater]

I've got a solid roller 470 that hits 8000 RPM with no problem! It's pushing around 700 HP, but has no bottom end so to speak...LOL

The pulling sport has been super cool, but all the events are at least 4 hours drive from me, and the schedule is like maybe 4 events per year that I can attend...(weekends).

I've been toying with the idea of building a drag truck, and have even bought a couple short fleets...but they have just sat, and been sold off.

Now I am totally serious about building a drag truck in a 67-72 short fleet format, since there is a strip just an hour north of me in Pueblo, CO...

Question 1:

What kind of times could I run with a 700 horse 69 SWB? This will give me an indication of what class I would fall into, and what safety requirement I should prepare for.

Question 2:

Should I run a manual or automatic? I don't care which one, as long as it has a justifiable benefit over the other.

Question 3:

Will my power output require a bigger rear end then a stock 12 bolt with upgraded axles, ring, and pinion?

Question 4:

I can get a 67 truck for CHEAP...what are the differences between the 67-68, and the 69-72 frames? Does it matter? I prefer the 69-70 look.



That should get me started, and thanks in advance for your responses!!!



Adrian Flores
Team FRANKENSTEIN Motorsports

YouTube - Team FRANKENSTEIN Motorsports...2

[Super73]

Question 1:

What kind of times could I run with a 700 horse 69 SWB? This will give me an indication of what class I would fall into, and what safety requirement I should prepare for.

Weight and hook dependant I'd guess 10.50 would ba a decent goal to start. I think it could go faster, but that's a nice number to shoot for.




Question 2:

Should I run a manual or automatic? I don't care which one, as long as it has a justifiable benefit over the other.

Auto is going to be more consistant and most likely faster. It's also usually easier on parts.



Question 3:

Will my power output require a bigger rear end then a stock 12 bolt with upgraded axles, ring, and pinion?

I'm going to guess most will say yes. I have a 12 bolt in mine and we'll see how well it holds up. I only make about 430rwhp on motor though and will be spraying it with a 300 hit. But most likely that won't be out of the hole so it will help the rears life some.



Question 4:

I can get a 67 truck for CHEAP...what are the differences between the 67-68, and the 69-72 frames? Does it matter? I prefer the 69-70 look.


63-72 frames are the same. Don't change a thing on the suspension until you get the motor and trans in, weight shifted/reduced. This way you can scale it and get the apropriate spring rates and shock lengths.

[Marv D]

About all I can add to that is,,, STAY 10.00 and slower. If you want to start throwing a BUNCH of money at it,, lighten things up and target 9.99 or quicker. Chassis cert, full roll cage, NHRA medical and license, fire suit (maybe not a issue in Colorado but really SUCKS @$$ here in Phx.), trans shield, SFI this, and SFI that, and engine diapers and,,, and,,, and.
9.99 and quicker is a major expense. But coming from pulling your probably not a stranger to parts breaking and things being a major expense.

[RatPwrd72]

Originally Posted by Marv D

About all I can add to that is,,, STAY 10.00 and slower. If you want to start throwing a BUNCH of money at it,, lighten things up and target 9.99 or quicker. Chassis cert, full roll cage, NHRA medical and license, fire suit (maybe not a issue in Colorado but really SUCKS @$$ here in Phx.), trans shield, SFI this, and SFI that, and engine diapers and,,, and,,, and.
9.99 and quicker is a major expense. But coming from pulling your probably not a stranger to parts breaking and things being a major expense.

Marv, that's exactly why my truck runs 10.30's......All of the safety and licensing stuff isn't worth it for the average bracket racer.

[DieselEater]

I really appreciate the feedback from you all....



Question 5:

Automatic seems to be the the consensus, so which one should I get?

Question 6:

What tire size, and gears should I be running if my engine likes 7500+ RPM?

Question 7:

What safety requirements will I have to have with times in the mid 10's? Also, what class/classes should I be in? I run Iron heads...


Check out my myspace for pics of my engine....

http://www.myspace.com/chevypullin


Thanks,


A.......

[Marv D]

As for trans,, all I can say is stay AWAY from BTE,, bit me in the butt for $3k. I run a Hughes dedenbear case glide in the Nova, and a Hughes TH350 w/ sportsman brake in the truck. Both have worked flawlessly. General rule of thumb is.... 130mph or 3000 pounds race weight is a break point where a glide is better, or you could benifit from the low gear of a 3speed in a slower vehicle. BUT,, that's just a general guide. Not a hard and fast fact.

There are a LOT of hidden rules that you need to get familiar with. i.e. If you remove / alter more than 2 sq ft of stock floorboard, or alter the firewall, you have to have a full roll cage. If you are required buy the rules to have a full cage, you MUST use a SFI window net. Lot's of 'if / then' things in the rule book. You really need to get a book and get initimate with it.

You will absolutely have to have a roll bar at 11.49. Because you have a full frame under the truck, you MUST tie the bar into the frame, not the body or rocker panels like on a unibody car. The main hoop must be no more than 6" behind the helmet, and at least 3" above the helmet and AT LEAST as wide as the drivers shoulders. The rear supports must be attached NO MORE than 5" from the top of the bar. Even if you find some creative way to do this, your most likely going to be cutting holes in the back of the cab. The forward side bar must pass within 1" of the driver, and pass between the drivers shoulder and elbow. The back brace must be no more than 4" below (and not above) the drivers shoulders. Aftermarket seats MUST be supported by, and attached to the back brace. .....
See where I'm going,,, GET A BOOK. You will save yourself a lot of headace and money doing it right the first time.


Tire / gear etc is a crap shoot at this point. You really need a dyno sheet and race weight, trans configuration, convertor choice to even get close. But just keep this in mind. The taller and wider the tire, the more consistant the short times will be. If your going bracket racing,, CONSISTANCY WINS, not the fastest car.

Then too,, there is a point of stupidity. I run a 33x22.50-15 DOT slick on the back of my truck. The rolling resistance of that much tire is just part of the reason I can go race and not have to worry about the illegal roll bar. It won't go fast enough to brake the 11.49 barrier!

A race car is a combination of parts. Myself I have never built one that stayed exactly as I built it. Once you have some track info you find the things you did wrong, and start changing components to make it faster,faster,faster,, and hopefully find some consistancy in there too,

[71'tahoe]

Adrian,

Every one is right so far. In my experiences...You may want to look into getting a tube chassis built and sitting the cab over the frame. That way you can install your own floors,bed sides,other body panels. I say this as I help a very close friend of mine build a bracket car from a stone stock 100 pts resto 66 chevelle. we went from ladder bars and 10" slicks to 14x32 drag tires in a matter of 2 years. Its better money spent if you start with a tube chassis and go from there. If you use stock frame and suspension and you modify it exstensivly then when you eventually step up to a tube chassis, all you have left is a frame you can sale for a street truck no more and it is only worth scrap price. If you do go stock chassis they are heavy..heavy means more strain on parts to get you moving..big stall converter,big gear(4:56 just an example) harder launches. If you start with a some what light chassis you dont have to run as hard. I know my opinion may cause a stir but it is how I feel. I have been building cars since I was in high school with a guy who super stock raced in the 60's and 70's. I have built many cars with him..All I can say is if you are going to do it and your serious...then think about what I said. I agree with every one else as far as using a glide for a trnsmisson.They sell new cases but if you go looking for a factory one they have 2 different gears for first depending on the year..Ill get that info for you. I just hate to see you go through all the work and eventually end up with a tube chassis... hope this helps..

[jgh64pkup]

Originally Posted by Marv D

As for trans,, all I can say is stay AWAY from BTE,, bit me in the butt for $3k. I run a Hughes dedenbear case glide in the Nova, and a Hughes TH350 w/ sportsman brake in the truck. Both have worked flawlessly. General rule of thumb is.... 130mph or 3000 pounds race weight is a break point where a glide is better, or you could benifit from the low gear of a 3speed in a slower vehicle. BUT,, that's just a general guide. Not a hard and fast fact.

There are a LOT of hidden rules that you need to get familiar with. i.e. If you remove / alter more than 2 sq ft of stock floorboard, or alter the firewall, you have to have a full roll cage. If you are required buy the rules to have a full cage, you MUST use a SFI window net. Lot's of 'if / then' things in the rule book. You really need to get a book and get initimate with it.

You will absolutely have to have a roll bar at 11.49. Because you have a full frame under the truck, you MUST tie the bar into the frame, not the body or rocker panels like on a unibody car. The main hoop must be no more than 6" behind the helmet, and at least 3" above the helmet and AT LEAST as wide as the drivers shoulders. The rear supports must be attached NO MORE than 5" from the top of the bar. Even if you find some creative way to do this, your most likely going to be cutting holes in the back of the cab. The forward side bar must pass within 1" of the driver, and pass between the drivers shoulder and elbow. The back brace must be no more than 4" below (and not above) the drivers shoulders. Aftermarket seats MUST be supported by, and attached to the back brace. .....
See where I'm going,,, GET A BOOK. You will save yourself a lot of headace and money doing it right the first time.


Tire / gear etc is a crap shoot at this point. You really need a dyno sheet and race weight, trans configuration, convertor choice to even get close. But just keep this in mind. The taller and wider the tire, the more consistant the short times will be. If your going bracket racing,, CONSISTANCY WINS, not the fastest car.

Then too,, there is a point of stupidity. I run a 33x22.50-15 DOT slick on the back of my truck. The rolling resistance of that much tire is just part of the reason I can go race and not have to worry about the illegal roll bar. It won't go fast enough to brake the 11.49 barrier!

A race car is a combination of parts. Myself I have never built one that stayed exactly as I built it. Once you have some track info you find the things you did wrong, and start changing components to make it faster,faster,faster,, and hopefully find some consistancy in there too,

do you have to have the rear bars

[DieselEater]

OK...things have changed a bit.

I just bought a 67 short step for next to nothing!!!

I'll be starting from the bottom up on this truck, but am going to try and keep it running at all times, and repair/replace small stuff here and there until its time to drop serious stuff into it.

I just got a frame and a couple sets of 5-lug stuff that I will probably not use now, so if anyone needs it let me know.

I will switch the 67 to 5-lug and discs.

I also have a 450ish HP 461 that I will be putting into this truck. Very streetable, and perfect mock up for when Its ready to drop in the 470!!!


Any ideas on driveline? Would a one piece be too long?


A..........

[blowncrazyer]

look at my thread....468- crower stack injection -turbo400-8" converter-on alky-full roller-will turn 7s in 1/8-and thats all steel with heavy cage

[DieselEater]

whats the link blowncrazyer???


I'll check it out...


A......

[blowncrazyer]

Originally Posted by DieselEater

whats the link blowncrazyer???


I'll check it out...


A......

check it out go to the top of page
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...5&goto=newpost

[WyoGMC]

The times posted above is wrong. Your truck will not be a 10 second truck in Pueblo. You will probably run high 11's there.

[DieselEater]

Just out of pure curiosity............

Would my dual disk slipper clutch work for drag racing? It is stiff as hell, so I could set it up with a hydraulic system if necessary.

Sorry, to be a noob....But, would save me some dinero if I could use it!


A.............

[71'tahoe]

Hey Adrrian! Hows everything in trinidad? Duall disc slipper i have no idea.I have never heard of one being used in drag racing..doesnt mean it cant be done.. Hvae you nailed down a chassis idea yet?

[DieselEater]

Gonnna go stock frame, cause I should be able to have lots of fun and stay slower than 10's in CO....

As far as suspension and rear end....haven't gotten that far yet.

My current dual disk slipper clutch is a pricey item enclosed in a SFI bell housing, so I figured if it would work, than why not!

The goal here is to have lots of fun, as often as possible, cause pulling schedule this last year SUCKED! Only 1 hook!!!


A.........

[Super73]

Keep in mind if you want to have lots of fun very often, you might want to consider an auto trans. Stick can beat up on parts a lot more. But if your ok with that, then go for it. Shifting is a lot of fun.

[cableguy0]

I vote auto as well. a properly setup auto trans will be faster and more consistent that a manual. A th400 with a brake and big converter will do great. As stated the driveline shock with a manual trans is huge when you dump the clutch which leads to twisted driveshafts broken u joints axles etc.

[DieselEater]

OK auto it is.....


Now for the stock suspension...strip it all, or use the trailing arms? Front suspension seems pretty heavy? I just happen to have an early 80's little mustang II....should I get all serious and convert some stuff, or just run what I got and see what the engine has?


Thanks,


A..........

[cableguy0]

run the stock rear setup. the most you should ever have to do is upgrade to coil overs. the front is up to you if you want to save the weight. Its not really neccessary though just change the springs and shocks. Theres quite a few guys here that can probably help you pin down the suspension but the best thing to do will be to just try it out as is and change things as needed that way you keep it as low cost as possible

[Super73]

I'm assumming it is not together enough to get it on a scale and provide axle weights?

[DieselEater]

I just received my short frame this weekend....So with some sandblasting and painting....and a little brake/bering work I should be ready to start with the rear end, and progress to the tranny driveline stuff. Engine is a badd some bit** just waiting for its next tour of duty!!!


A.........

[djracer]

Unless you really lighten it up a bunch I would run a turbo 400. An automatic will be more consistant and thats helps win races. I would stay stock frame and rear suspension. Just add coilovers and an anti roll with a nine inch ford or dana 60 rear with about a 5.13 gear. I would run a 33 x 10.5w tire and a 12 or 14 inch wide rear wheel. With a steel headed big block I would move the motor back as far as possible. Mine has a notch for the mid plate that probably adds a little room.
The mustang II stuff would take a decent amount of weight off the truck. Mine is a Fatman bolt on Mustang II kit that bolts on. It allows me to run some stock suspended stuff since its not welded on. Here's a link to my build thread. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=151718

Let me know if I can help,
Kevin

[joeys66pickup]

i have a one piece... heavy as hell but one solid som*****

[BossHogg69]

I have a one piece driveshaft in my '69 shortstepper as well, had it built at Superior Spring here in North Little Rock will all Spicer stuff. I'm running a 468/TREMEC 5 spd in case that matters.