55.2-59 New to the 47-59 Trucks

[damnyankee36]

I have restored a few vehicles, one, a 66 C10. I am now looking for a new truck project and have narrowed it down to a 54 or 55 3100.

I have seen a few 3600's for sale. Besides the suspension is the 3600 frame similar enough to a 3100 to allow me to do a typical suspension drop with a 2nd Gen F-Body subframe and a four link, (or maybe drop leaf springs)?

I am also comfortable with shortening the frame and bed if necessary to make it identical to a short bed 3100.

Is there anything I am missing with this idea?

[dsraven]

you might already have read up these trucks but in case you haven't here is a wikipedia thing. it explains a few differences that only the 54 and 55.1 will have. doing this will be cool but also make it a little harder to find parts.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chev...Advance_Design
3600 is a 3/4 ton, correct? so not the big truck front end.
try to find an assembly manual. it will have frame dimensions, cab dimensions, where spot welds are located, all sorts of things that you can reference during take apart, repair, modification and assembly.

[damnyankee36]

Thanks I'll look into that. And, just to show how little I know, I meant to say 55-56. I like the second design's grille and dash but not the dual headlights of the 58-59. The 57's grille doesn't appeal to me either.

Even though I don't want to get too complicated I wonder how hard it would be to install the front sheet metal, firewall forward, of a 55-56 on a 57-59. If there advances to the 57-59 compared to the 55-56 then this might be a win-win situation.

So, I think I got that straight. I'll be looking around and getting used to the differences of the years.

[dsraven]

i gotta say, if you have a task force truck then you need to go to trifive.com and download their free assembly manual. also bookmark the address for the old car manuals project.
sorry, I dont have the link for the trifive site, but you could simply google "55-59 chevrolet truck factory assembly manual" and click their site. you can peruse online or download. I suggest download for easy lookups plus you never know how long these sites keep stuff online. the old car manuals project has specs on all kinds of old chevy stuff but some is not compete. some of it is the same for several years so I simply check a year with the same body style usually.
55-56-57 are single headlight trucks. 58-59 are 4 headlight trucks. the front end sheet metal is different on the last 2 years and also that part of the truck is longer than the previous 3 years. the assembly manual has frame and body dimensions for the whole series so you could look at that. installing the early sheet metal on the later frame and cab can be done since the frame is longer and could be cut off to fit. the spring hangers etc are in the same place on the frame but not the rad support mounts which would have to be moved. there are other subtle differences between the years, like firewall bumps for different wiper motors etc, but nothing that can't be overcome if desired. the hood hinges mount differently between the 2 eyed and 4 eyed trucks but that is also a pretty easy fix if you set your mind to it. 57 seems to be a year that has a few body items that are different than the previous 2 years. mostly around the front fender grille opening area.
the biggest issue with the task force trucks is that the vent in front of the windshield takes on rain, snow, sleet and hail, but it alo takes in pine needles, leaves etc. this drains down each side's inner cowl to a small drain hole at the bottom of the inner cowls on each side. problem is pine needles, leaves etc plug the drain so any rain water etc can run out on the truck floor and drain across to the steps and hnge pillars. this tends to rot out the floor, cab mounts, steps, rockers, hinge pillars,front fender lower rear mount brackets, inner cowls etc. rear cab corners is a given. rear cab mount area can be soft. the roof around the drip rail can be suspect as well as the area above the windshield, referred to as the eyebrow. common mouse nest loaction
anyway, its always good to do a thorough check over on any new project and then do a feasability work up to see how far you wanna go. one thing I do is check online to see what patch panels are made for the vehicle I am working on and then take extra care to ensure I check those areas carefully. they usually make patch panels due to a demand for them.

post up some pics of what you have to start with when the time comes. don't be shy, we have seen some pretty bad stuff be transformed into some pretty nice stuff.

http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com...esto/index.htm

[damnyankee36]

Thanks for the in-depth info!

[mr48chev]

In truth F body suspension on an AD truck is obsolete technology. You have to do way more cutting on the front end sheet metal to make it work than with a TF. Some will say it is a bit wide for an AD too.

There are plenty of decent MII setups, the Industrial chassis crossmember that uses Dodge Dakota pieces where the crossmember is a tad on the spendy side but the suspension pieces are pretty reasonable. https://www.industrialchassisinc.com/ That crossmember is serously stout and the suspension is real truck stuff.
There is also the Jag XJ from the 70's/80's that isn't too spendy to buy but parts can cost, is off a 4000 lb car and you don't have to cut or trim any sheet metal and the only indicator is the routing of the steering column to the rack.

I should note that I was one of the earlier guys subframing an AD doing it over the winter of 1980/81. I would have done it earlier but my buddy talked me out of it after I had been in a wreck with my 48. He would have to have done all the welding so that might have been part of the reason. My truck drove great and right out of the box I put a 5000 mile road trip on it in 1981. Trouble is that I had to do a lot of cutting on the inner fenders and inside front end sheet metal to get it to work., that was with a First Gen Camaro Stub with rear steer and front steer would have called for more hacking.

[dsraven]

I think you would find that the 3/4 ton frame is the same outline shape as the 1/2 ton frame with the eception of possibly a thicker material.
all the frame dimensional drawings can be found in the assembly manual.
I have placed an early design body onto a late design frame before. it's not that tough, you just need to do a few dimensional checks and layouts, drill a couple holes and then move the rad support brackets back a couple inches. the bumper bolt holes would be the same, layout, drill, then cut off the few inches of frame that isn't needed anymore.

[damnyankee36]

Originally Posted by mr48chev

In truth F body suspension on an AD truck is obsolete technology. You have to do way more cutting on the front end sheet metal to make it work than with a TF. Some will say it is a bit wide for an AD too.

...That was with a First Gen Camaro Stub with rear steer and front steer would have called for more hacking.

…There are plenty of decent MII setups....

Interesting...

I never got that far in determined how much sheet metal cutting would be required. The 2nd gen F-body subframe is the only method I have seen so far. I figure the Camaro subframe is way better than a straight axle even if there are other alternatives out there. I am comfortable and familiar with Camaros anyway.

I always figured the Camaro's suspension would be strong enough for just cruising around in a 1/2 ton. And going with a MII system just doesn't sit well with me. (Ford...), along with my perceived view of it being weaker than a Camaro.

I did see another method using just the Camaro's crossmember inserted between the truck's main and front frame sections. Harder to do but it looks better than having the entire rear section of the subframe stuck to the underside of the truck's frame. The front sheet metal then would apparently be simply bolted on.

I was also wondering how a 1st Gen would fit. I never have compared dimensions between the two. I was also wondering how the different steering systems would align with the truck's column.

[damnyankee36]

Originally Posted by dsraven

I think you would find that the 3/4 ton frame is the same outline shape as the 1/2 ton frame with the eception of possibly a thicker material.
all the frame dimensional drawings can be found in the assembly manual.
I have placed an early design body onto a late design frame before. it's not that tough, you just need to do a few dimensional checks and layouts, drill a couple holes and then move the rad support brackets back a couple inches. the bumper bolt holes would be the same, layout, drill, then cut off the few inches of frame that isn't needed anymore.

That's good to know. I plan to modify the front and rear suspensions to 1/2 ton/passenger car specs anyway.

So, if I do find a 3/4T truck and the frame isn't taller or otherwise radically different than a 1/2T then it should look OK in the end.

[mr48chev]

I had a rather lengthy post written up and put together when my computer decided that it wasn't happy.

3600 AD truck frames are .040 thicker than 3100 frames per the specs in the GM heritage archives for 1954 Chevy trucks.



3100 AD truck frames unlike TF frames taper from between 27 and 28 inches at the front of the frame horns to right at 47 inches at the rear of the frame.



3600 frames run straight back from just behind the crossmember under the cab to the back end of the frame with the rails being parallell. What works on a TF will pretty well
Work on the back end of a 3600.

My 47/54 assembly manual is out in the shop and I don't have the 3600 frame diagram on the computer at this time.

When you shorten a 3600 frame I am thinking that part of the bed length is behind the wheels. You have 9-1/4 inch extra wheelbase and the bed is a bit longer behind the axle center line.

the inside of the bed on a 3100 is 78.12 and the distance from axle center line to back of bed is 41.94 while the inside of the bed on a 3600 is 90 inches and the distance from axle centerline is 44.59 for a difference of 2.65 inches at the rear. A lot of guys don't mess with that if they cut the box down and just add that 2.65 to the length of the new bed wood. Their short box is just a bit longer behind the rear fender than other guys short boxes.

This page from the GM heritage center archives has quite a bit of info on the 54 trucks https://www.gm.com/content/dam/compa...olet-Truck.pdf

[R&B51]

Originally Posted by mr48chev

I had a rather lengthy post written up and put together when my computer decided that it wasn't happy.

3600 AD truck frames are .040 thicker than 3100 frames per the specs in the GM heritage archives for 1954 Chevy trucks.



3100 AD truck frames unlike TF frames taper from between 27 and 28 inches at the front of the frame horns to right at 47 inches at the rear of the frame.



3600 frames run straight back from just behind the crossmember under the cab to the back end of the frame with the rails being parallell. What works on a TF will pretty well
Work on the back end of a 3600.

My 47/54 assembly manual is out in the shop and I don't have the 3600 frame diagram on the computer at this time.

When you shorten a 3600 frame I am thinking that part of the bed length is behind the wheels. You have 9-1/4 inch extra wheelbase and the bed is a bit longer behind the axle center line.

the inside of the bed on a 3100 is 78.12 and the distance from axle center line to back of bed is 41.94 while the inside of the bed on a 3600 is 90 inches and the distance from axle centerline is 44.59 for a difference of 2.65 inches at the rear. A lot of guys don't mess with that if they cut the box down and just add that 2.65 to the length of the new bed wood. Their short box is just a bit longer behind the rear fender than other guys short boxes.

This page from the GM heritage center archives has quite a bit of info on the 54 trucks https://www.gm.com/content/dam/compa...olet-Truck.pdf

This is working for me, you could check out his site (Dobbertin) and give him a call. PM me and I can send you diagrams for my frame to use C6 driveline.
https://www.ridetech.com/legendary-builder-rick-dobbertin-makes-suspension-kit/
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[dsraven]

mr48, I think the OP is looking at a task force truck rather than an AD truck. mistake noted in post 3. great info for others though. you're a wealth of knowledge, especially on the AD stuff.
yankee, I think you prolly need to think about your ride height and what you want to do with the truck. lots of guys cut the front frame off and weld on a subframe from something else for front suspension, then cut the back off and weld on a big C notch for a low stance. then install frame stiffener tubes and strong crossmembers etc etc. if you look at it, really, the only stock section of frame is the part under the cab. it may be better to start from scratch and build a whole new frame. or buy a new frame from somebody like Canadian hotrods (worth a look at the website if thats what you might consider because USD to CAD means a big savings). another option is a bolt in IFS up front and then do a C notch out back.it depends on what you want the truck to look like and what you wanna do with it after it's built. cruise the strip, daily driver, trailer queen, stock look ride height, canyon carver etc etc.

[damnyankee36]

Yes, sorry I didn't start out my questions correctly. I had just started figuring out what I liked and wasn't too sharp on the designs. I am looking for a Task Force truck. I like the 55-56, maybe the 57.

I don't think I need anything fancy; just a comfortable cruiser. In my mind some sort of IFS welded on and leave the rear section alone except for some springs for maybe a 3" drop. Swapping in a GM 10 bolt would seem to be the best bet to round out a modern drivetrain.

My 66 had all kinds of bells and whistles and I want to keep it simple this time. The extra work of seeing if a 55-56 front clip, (the styles I like), could be bolted on a 57-59 chassis w/o too much work was only if the these later years had anything to offer as far as upgrades/better design. Then I could get the best of both worlds. I need to see what the differences were, if any. And, if a 3600 could reworked as easily as a 3100 I would do that too.

Thanks to all for taking the time to get me started!

[dsraven]

just a heads up on lowering the rear suspension, if you weld in a IFS up front that will usually lower the truck. the problem is that the rear can only be lowered a certain amount until the axle will hit the frame. i suggest to leave at least 3 inches above the axle or else take out some good dental insurance. of course a good jounce stop will also be a good idea at that point.
you could check ogre's build as he has pics of the rear suspension with about the 3 inch limit above. there are some pics of the truck from the side as well so you can check out the ride height.
there are bolt in IFS kits as well. that allows the possibility of some rake angle changes if needed
another thing to know is that the front wheel opening in the fender is tapered at the rear but more rounded at the front so as the truck is lowered the wheel tends to look like it is not centred in the opening. most guys move the axle centre line ahead some to compensate for this. it can make a big difference for choosing your tire outside diameter as well. best to have the tire size chosen and some "project" wheels so you can get the look you're after.
best of luck finding a good donor vehicle, it seems like the larger trucks can be in better shape body wise but if they have the big fender front end then some other stuff will also be a little different. ,maybe best to keep with the standard sized front fenders, like a 3/4 ton down. some guys, however, buy a big truck, because they sometimes don't see much driving especially in winter, and then use the good cab on the smaller truck frame and fender set up.

[damnyankee36]

If I see myself getting the rear too low for clearance I figured a "C" notch would work as usual, correct? Yes, I remember seeing something about re-centering the front wheels. I will keep that in mind.

I will also check out Ogre's build thread.

[damnyankee36]

Hmmm, the only Ogre that shows up in search is in the square body section. Is that him?

In the meantime, I am looking at the 47-59 build threads to see what others are doing.

[dsraven]

here he is. post 2 shows rear axle and post 6 shows the ride height

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=501998

somebody else on here installed a early task force front end onto the late version frame, just lately, but I can't seem to find the thread.

[dsraven]

kabwe aka bam's build did the sheet metal swap on his. he also has some cool ideas for other stuff.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s....php?t=440079/

[dsraven]

ok, found it. maybe private message this fella who put the early sheet metal on the later frame.

https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/...=832309&page=3

[_Ogre]

Technically I'm _ogre, my build thread is in my signature
The 3400 ½T LWB frame and the 3600 ¾T frame are identical. They are the same in the FAM Factory Assembly Manual, all documentation refers to the 3400 & 3600 frames together. I strongly recommend buying the fam from any vendor if you chose to build a TF truck.
All mods done for ½T trucks can be done to the ¾T trucks without any modification. If you lower your truck, definitely C-notch the frame over the rear axle. TRUK has approx 3" c-notch but could have used more. Rubber bump stops and air shocks keep it off the frame in all but extreme cases
I'm snowbirding in Texas for the next 4-5 months and have limited brain power on the beach, but I do check in every few days