Muncie question

[SwitchbladeII]

Any of you Muncie transmission rebuilders have a seamed spacer tube from a 7/8" pin cluster? If someone has one and could measure it for me, I would appreciate it. I just took one apart and it had the tube without a seam but it had six spacers it should only have four. Before I put it together, I need to make sure it is longer than the seamed tube. Solid tubes are supposed to be longer but just want to make sure this one it is. Thanks in advance!

[AussieinNC]

Check inside the cluster gear bore and measure the distance from the step in front of bore to step in rear of bore. It should match the length of the spacer tube.

Its been a while but from memory, the six spacer units had two rows of needle bearings on each end of the cluster. So one spacer goes in against the tube end, then needle rollers, then another spacer followed by needle rollers, then final outer spacer ring.

[SwitchbladeII]

Originally Posted by AussieinNC

Check inside the cluster gear bore and measure the distance from the step in front of bore to step in rear of bore. It should match the length of the spacer tube.

Its been a while but from memory, the six spacer units had two rows of needle bearings on each end of the cluster. So one spacer goes in against the tube end, then needle rollers, then another spacer followed by needle rollers, then final outer spacer ring.

Thank you for your reply AussueinNC. You are correct about the 6 spacers but that sequence applies to the tube with a seam which is shorter. The seamless tube is longer and eliminates the spacers next to the tube. I found other issues in this box from the prior rebuild. I'm quite sure it doesn't need the six spacers. I just need to make sure this is the long tube. If I can't find the dimension of the seamed tube I will mock it up before I assemble it. I don't want to pack all those needle bearings to find the two end spacers sticking out of the cluster gear.

[AussieinNC]

Check the spacer tube diameter and look at the ends to see if they have wear marks from the ends of the rollers rubbing against it.

I dont want to tell you how to pack those needle rollers in the cluster bore, but for setup I would lay the cluster on its end, insert the cluster shaft dry, one ring dry, then pack say 3 rollers in grease around the shaft, push the needles down with the middle ring , add 3 more rollers in grease then push the last ring in place. Pick the cluster and shaft up, invert it and push the center tube down, load first spacer, 3 more rollers in grease, middle spacer, 3 more rollers in grease then the top ring. Note, the rings a usually about 1/16" down in the bore after being assembled correctly. They cannot be proud of the end face of the cluster.

I have seen solid tubes that do not use the inner most ring, but they are always hardened and show rub marks of the end faces.

I always pack cluster rollers and input shaft internal rollers with a light grease. Just makes it easier to keep them in place during assembly.

Hope this helps.

[SwitchbladeII]

Originally Posted by AussieinNC

Check the spacer tube diameter and look at the ends to see if they have wear marks from the ends of the rollers rubbing against it.

I dont want to tell you how to pack those needle rollers in the cluster bore, but for setup I would lay the cluster on its end, insert the cluster shaft dry, one ring dry, then pack say 3 rollers in grease around the shaft, push the needles down with the middle ring , add 3 more rollers in grease then push the last ring in place. Pick the cluster and shaft up, invert it and push the center tube down, load first spacer, 3 more rollers in grease, middle spacer, 3 more rollers in grease then the top ring. Note, the rings a usually about 1/16" down in the bore after being assembled correctly. They cannot be proud of the end face of the cluster.

I have seen solid tubes that do not use the inner most ring, but they are always hardened and show rub marks of the end faces.

I always pack cluster rollers and input shaft internal rollers with a light grease. Just makes it easier to keep them in place during assembly.

Hope this helps.

I don't know how long this was run with the 6 spacers the tube doesn't have marks other than those from the washer. When I took it apart one of the end washers fell off but I wasn't paying real close attention to see if it was beyond the face of the cluster gear. I still think that it should not have the inner washers against the tube. Still hope to get a seam tube dimension to be sure.

Thanks for your reply and the tip on loading the bearings. I normally don't do them that way but it's something I might try. Thanks again

[AussieinNC]

It is my understanding that you must use six spacer rings if the cluster tube has a seam in it.

Is the cluster shaft 1" OD or 7/8" OD?

I do know that only the 1" tube is available now, unless you find a used one somewhere.

If it was me, I would be doing the trial needle roller build as I detailed baove and see where the outer spacer rings finish. If they are below the end of the bore by about 1/16" to 1/8" you will be good to go.

They cannot be above the thrust face of the cluster.

Here is a link to a complete parts pdf. Check out page 5 for a full parts blow up of the cluster set parts.

https://www.autogear.net/wp-content/.../Muncie_v5.pdf

[SwitchbladeII]

Originally Posted by AussieinNC

It is my understanding that you must use six spacer rings if the cluster tube has a seam in it.

Is the cluster shaft 1" OD or 7/8" OD?

I do know that only the 1" tube is available now, unless you find a used one somewhere.

If it was me, I would be doing the trial needle roller build as I detailed baove and see where the outer spacer rings finish. If they are below the end of the bore by about 1/16" to 1/8" you will be good to go.

They cannot be above the thrust face of the cluster.

Here is a link to a complete parts pdf. Check out page 5 for a full parts blow up of the cluster set parts.

https://www.autogear.net/wp-content/.../Muncie_v5.pdf

It's a 7/8" shaft. I do know that the washers shouldn't extend the gear on the ends. This is my concern and feel it should only have 4 not 6. Whoever rebuilt this box really didn't know what they were doing as I have found other serious issues. They may have replaced the seamed tube with this one and used 6 spacers. I still hope to find someone out there with a seamed tube that will measure it for me. If I don't find the dimension I will do a mock up before I do the final assembly. Thanks for the link and your input, I appreciate it!