14 bolt for $400?

[jumpsoffrock]

I have a 1 ton SRW with an H072 that works fine and the brakes work fine; I have no need to tear the truck apart yet. However I'd like to prepare for the future and swap in a 14 bolt at my leisure.

The local junkyard has a 2000 C3500 SRW with what should be a 14 bolt.....right?, the yard wants $410 for it complete with brakes.

(The truck was smashed HARD in the front and pushed the drivetrain back quite a bit, the front frame was collapsed back a foot, and it disconnected the driveshaft at the rear pinion yoke, I'm a little worried it might have screwed up the diff if it hit hard enough)

[Warrens69GMC]

Check around the u-pull-it yards. The Tucson yard has 5 8-lug in stock that haven't been messed with. That's one yard.

I have a 1976 C20 14 bolt FF that I had on Facebook for 300. Too many texts not associated with my listing, so I took it down

Car-part.com can help you find one local

[special-K]

Yes, it will be a 14-bolt full floater. I have a Power Lok Dana 60 in my '72 K2500. Also have an HO52 No-Spin, a DRW HO72, and a 14-bolt from a mid-80s truck. As you can tell, I agree with having a spare rear (or two or three) around. Many years ago I knew a guy, Peter Case, who named his son Justin. I think that had a lasting effect on me.

[jumpsoffrock]

Originally Posted by Warrens69GMC

Check around the u-pull-it yards. The Tucson yard has 5 8-lug in stock that haven't been messed with. That's one yard.

I have a 1976 C20 14 bolt FF that I had on Facebook for 300. Too many texts not associated with my listing, so I took it down

Car-part.com can help you find one local

Would the 14 bolts in a 3/4 ton truck be weaker or have smaller brakes than a 14 bolt from a 1 ton?
If so than I'd really like a 1 ton style 14 bolt. Thanks for letting me know that they are fairly common though; and your pricing info.



How easy is it to swap a 1990's pickup 14 bolt into a 67-72? I seem to remember that if you find a 14 bolt from the 70's it slips right in. I guess I need to measure spring perches and shock mounts.

[Warrens69GMC]

Someone more knowledgeable than me will chime in.
I have no experience in anything larger than half ton.

I have bought and sold, but not modified.

[57taskforce]

If it’s a full floating 14, strength wise they are the same. Some of the 3/4 ton floaters had 2” or so wide brakes and others had the 1 ton 3.5” wide brakes. They can be interchanged with the right parts.

[wrangler94]

Originally Posted by jumpsoffrock

Would the 14 bolts in a 3/4 ton truck be weaker or have smaller brakes than a 14 bolt from a 1 ton?
If so than I'd really like a 1 ton style 14 bolt. Thanks for letting me know that they are fairly common though; and your pricing info.



How easy is it to swap a 1990's pickup 14 bolt into a 67-72? I seem to remember that if you find a 14 bolt from the 70's it slips right in. I guess I need to measure spring perches and shock mounts.

Basically a 14 bolt is a 14 bolt unless you get the semi float 14 which is 6 lug. Those came in some 2500s i think and maybe like a 1500 HD.
The biggest thing to check on is axle width, which if it's a single rear wheel 1 ton truck, should be in the neighborhood of right. Dually 14 bolts are a different width (I think) but definitely different hubs. Then Cab and chassis 14 bolts are different, and the van 14 bolts might be also different.
Here is a link to basically everything you could ever want to know, and probably more than most want to know, about 14 bolts. http://www.billavista.com/tech/Artic...ble/index.html

Just asking though, why would you want to remove the HO72? Unless you just want to change gear ratios or something, there is nothing stronger about a 14 bolt, and in the offroading world a few rare stubborn people like me buy the Eaton axles and run those.
If you'd like a link to a kinda tech bible about the HO72 I can send a link, but it's from a forum, so I don't want to post any link that maybe i'm not supposed to, etc..

[wrangler94]

here's a quote about HO72s

I will just give a short recap on the axle.
-Axles were used from 1947 to 1972.
-The difference between the HO72 and HO52 is the factory load bolt.
-Axle shafts are 1.5in coarse 17 spline. Many argue whether if they are stronger or weaker then 14 bolt shafts.
-14 bolt axle shafts and the drop in (detroit, grizzly) locker fits in the HO72. There are some exceptions, on some older open carriers they are a tad narrower and do not let the 14 bolt locker unlock. Some have fixed this with washers between the carrier or machining a few thousandths off the side gear. I machined .008 off each side gear for a total of .016 and it now locks/unlocks like it should.
-some carriers are a few thousandths tight and the 14 bolt shaft wont fit. Bore it out a few thousandths to fit….it seems newer (closer to 1970 HO72s have larger IDs and 14 bolt shafts fit with ease
-14 bolt disc brake kits work
-Diff covers, I have found mine on ebay. Some guy makes a HD diff cover. Ruffstuff made a short run of them
-Some did come with factory 17 spline detroit lockers
-Factory gear ratios are 4.10, 4.57 and 5.14. Supposedly there is an elusive 5.86 and if I can get my damn hands on one I would.
-No gear sets are available from the aftermarket
-pinon bearings are expensive.
-Pinion shaft is BEEF at almost 2in in diameter with zero neckdown.
-Ring gear size is 10 1/8 (some conflicting info on this but its between 10 and 10.5)
-Yoke is 1350
-I havent weighed an Eaton HO72 but they are much easier and lighter to move around compared to a 14 bolt.
-Ground clearance is better when comparing unshaved 14 bolts to unshaved Eatons.
-WMS is 63 or 65in and determined by the hub
-2 types of pinion bearings, ball bearing and tapered roller bearing, the tapered roller is better.

[SunSoaked]

Originally Posted by wrangler94

Basically a 14 bolt is a 14 bolt unless you get the semi float 14 which is 6 lug. Those came in some 2500s i think and maybe like a 1500 HD.
The biggest thing to check on is axle width, which if it's a single rear wheel 1 ton truck, should be in the neighborhood of right. Dually 14 bolts are a different width (I think) but definitely different hubs. Then Cab and chassis 14 bolts are different, and the van 14 bolts might be also different.
Here is a link to basically everything you could ever want to know, and probably more than most want to know, about 14 bolts. http://www.billavista.com/tech/Artic...ble/index.html

Just asking though, why would you want to remove the HO72? Unless you just want to change gear ratios or something, there is nothing stronger about a 14 bolt, and in the offroading world a few rare stubborn people like me buy the Eaton axles and run those.
If you'd like a link to a kinda tech bible about the HO72 I can send a link, but it's from a forum, so I don't want to post any link that maybe i'm not supposed to, etc..

Semi Floats are 8 lug.

[wrangler94]

Originally Posted by SunSoaked

Semi Floats are 8 lug.

It can be either, but you're right, 8 lug doesn't means it's full float.

NOTE: Some semi-float axles have 8-lug nuts. So, if you have 8 lugs but no visible axle end, you have a 14-bolt semi-float axle.

[jumpsoffrock]

Wow thank you all so much for the info.

Originally Posted by wrangler94

Just asking though, why would you want to remove the HO72? Unless you just want to change gear ratios or something, there is nothing stronger about a 14 bolt, and in the offroading world a few rare stubborn people like me buy the Eaton axles and run those.
If you'd like a link to a kinda tech bible about the HO72 I can send a link, but it's from a forum, so I don't want to post any link that maybe i'm not supposed to, etc..

There is only one single reason I have ever looked into replacing my H072: rear brake drums.
I also have another reason but that is more of a "bonus" than an acttual reason: serviceability, parts availability, and knowledge of 14 bolts if I were to be stranded in another state while traveling for some reason.


I don't believe there are any rules for posting links to other forums. I'd love that link if you want to PM me instead.




Like I said before,it appears my rear end/brakes all work perfectly fine; I am just keeping my eye out for a suitable 14 bolt at my leisure so I can be ready if I ever need to make the change. I am intending on daily driving this 1 ton when it is finished.

[67 twins]

The brakes from a 14bolt full float will bolt right onto a HO52/72
That's what I did on my C20

[jumpsoffrock]

Originally Posted by 67 twins

The brakes from a 14bolt full float will bolt right onto a HO52/72
That's what I did on my C20

Hmmmmm you know what, I forgot about that: some folks just swap the breaks.

Maybe I can try that first.
What year rear end did your parts come from?

[67 twins]

I was told they came off of a 79. I bought them from someone that was swapping to rear disc. The only modification I had to make was to ream the holes larger in my hubs for the larger lug studs from the 14 bolt. From what I understand if you have a 71 or 72 they already have the larger studs.

[MARKDTN]

Interesting on price. Our LKQ is $250 plus a $40 core on "axle assy rear truck dually less brakes" then brakes that are hard to price on the site. It's only $226 plus $35 core for non-dually truck.

[mr48chev]

It's hard for anyone to tell on condition without looking at the actual rear end.

Price, on a lot of stuff local going prices vary a lot from one part of the country to another. 400 doesn't sound outrageous but I haven't checked local prices on that model or rear axle. So Cal prices seem to be a bit higher on older truck stuff but I don't know on late model pieces. Supply and demand usually dictate prices for newer stuff in most parts of the country.

[special-K]

The value for 14-bolt, and most other rears is $300 all days long and has been for many years. I didn't comment on $400 because that's not out of line and the $300 range has been stuck for a long long time. You can always find a better deal somewhere. With LKQ being nationwide, but I believe locally run (like a franchise, maybe?) I can see their prices varying from region to region. I have quite a few rears that were given to me. Really can't beat that!

[Ironangel]

The local U-Pull-It sells their FF 14-bolts for $255. I think they get an even $300 if they pull it for you. A 14-bolt with a locker from a later model truck might be worth $400...

[57taskforce]

The later model disk brake axles bring more than 400 here complete. They bring $500-600 easy, especially if it’s a G80.

[wrangler94]

Originally Posted by jumpsoffrock

Wow thank you all so much for the info.



There is only one single reason I have ever looked into replacing my H072: rear brake drums.
I also have another reason but that is more of a "bonus" than an acttual reason: serviceability, parts availability, and knowledge of 14 bolts if I were to be stranded in another state while traveling for some reason.


I don't believe there are any rules for posting links to other forums. I'd love that link if you want to PM me instead.




Like I said before,it appears my rear end/brakes all work perfectly fine; I am just keeping my eye out for a suitable 14 bolt at my leisure so I can be ready if I ever need to make the change. I am intending on daily driving this 1 ton when it is finished.

Here is the link, which will show you all the reasons why alot of people think it was the best axle ever produced. 14 bolts are great, I put one in the 1994 jeep I built for rock crawling, but all the greatness of the 14 bolt was built on the back of the HO72. They dropped the idea of the removable third member though for some reason. As mentioned before you can swap 14 bolt brakes on your HO72, or even disk brake swap it. I wouldn't remove it.
https://irate4x4.com/threads/eaton-h...thread.379709/

quotes from that link

I have seen many comments on the HO72 thread at the old place like
"I ran 44in tires and 400HP with no problem"
"I filled it with mud and the thing didnt care"

parts availability has been an iffy topic. The only thing I can say I have personal experience with is the wheel bearings. I changed those out when I did mine. I ordered them in the AM and they were at the parts store that afternoon. I forgot which one, but the inner or outer wheel bearing is the same as the carrier bearing. From a carrier bearing and wheel bearing/seal standpoint I have had no issues getting parts. (This was 5 years ago though)

pinion bearings are a different story, I never had to order them. For ****s and giggles I called around one day and I was told a warehouse in LA had some. They were expensive (like $300) but they had em....But who knows if that’s just the last one on the shelf, never to be made again type of scenario, or they can get more.

you cant get new R&P’s but they don’t break :flipoff2: and come in offroad friendly ratios.

One of the big things about these axles that gives them the strength and durability is the original use of hemispherical style cone bearings, ie the Hyatt stuff that is machined in an orbital. This allows deformation of various surfaces under high load but doesn't alter the surface area of the bearing in contact with the race, ie, no single pointing or shoulder loading a square edge modern style taper bearing because the orbital match of the bearing makes up for the changes.
I've run one of these with the gears so pitted that you'd swear someone was arc -gouging the teeth of the ring, and it never let me down.

For the weight to strength ratio, and clearance gains from shaving. Disc brake options, etc... I'd put this as one of the best built axles ever. The quality of the machine and casting work in most of the ones I've opened is far far superior to anything Dana I've been into.

[jumpsoffrock]

Ok so it sounds like the price is on the upper-side of "reasonable".

Originally Posted by special-K

I have quite a few rears that were given to me. Really can't beat that!

I'm quoting this because it's the right thing to do lol
(I didn't know you were such a ladies man, Tim)





Wrangler, thank you for the link and quotes, very nice of you. A friend of mine spend a few years in the "super overlanding" world, he did some minor rockcrawling and we talked plenty about the "1-ton 14 bb" axle swap that is apparently the holy grail in the rock crawling world.
I think it's kinda funny that a tough-as-nails work truck rear axle was turned into a legend by a bunch of offroading guys. The aftermarket support is like something in the realm of LS engines, and all that support has nothing to do with the work-truck world--it all came because of offroaders.

But it sounds like my H072 can be a force to be reckoned with, so let me try a brake parts swap first.

[special-K]

From what I've seen, prices in CA tend to run higher, especially from a formal business. Since you're not dead in the water, I'd say slow it down and keep looking, checking other sources like Craigslist and Marketplace. You can also post a wanted to buy listing in either of those. I did that for cinder blocks and got one load for free and the rest (larger quantity) for $80. I worded my listing a me needing as well as helping remove unwanted. Like the rears I've had given to me, most people would rather have someone else load and haul one away than do that themselves. When I hear someone say they're ready to scrap something like that I tell them "I'll take it". I think me taking one away for free is better for them than all the work and time for what little money they'll get. There are 14-bolts from 73-87s that will have the save spring pad spread and GMT400s were all wider, I believe. Just another tgought