Steering Wheel Upside Down

[cericd]

I recently took my 1970 C/10 to a shop to have a few things done and now the steering wheel is upside down. I'm being told "I think it was like that when you brought it in." but I'm sure it wasn't.

Here's a list of what was done to the front end.

• Convert from manual to power steering (using parts from a '72 C/10. Steering box, pump, pitman arm)

• Rebuild rag joint (I'm pretty sure it was rebuilt and not replaced but I'll double check with the shop)

• Replace ball joints

• Drum to disc swap using stock height conversion spindles

• Add brake booster and disc/drum prop valve

• Add front sway bar

I'd assume it has something to do with the steering gear or rag joint but I'm not sure how to figure it out. Any help is appreciated.

[57taskforce]

You can’t do all that work and not have it aligned. If that shop didn’t align it properly, than I’d say that’s why your wheel is off. To answer your question since your 2 wheel drive, the steering wheel position is adjusted in the tie rod ends. You’ll have to take both tie rods off at the wheels and adjust both rod ends the same number of turns in the same direction until you get the wheel where you want it. The other option is to take the steering wheel off with the front wheels straight and put it back on where you want it. Regardless I’d take it somewhere and make sure the front end is aligned correctly.

[68 P.O.S.]

I don't understand the problem. It's pretty easy to take the wheel off and correct it yourself in 2 mins. With all that stuff changed out it should ride a little better.

[57taskforce]

Originally Posted by 68 P.O.S.

I don't understand the problem. It's pretty easy to take the wheel off and correct it yourself in 2 mins. With all that stuff changed out it should ride a little better.

If the shop couldn’t figure out that the wheel was upside down, which is something a correctly performed alignment fixes, how could you really be confident that toe, caster, camber etc are correct.

[68 P.O.S.]

Originally Posted by 57taskforce

If the shop couldn’t figure out that the wheel was upside down, which is something a correctly performed alignment fixes, how could you really be confident that toe, caster, camber etc are correct.

You can't assume either way with the limited info given.

[cericd]

Originally Posted by 68 P.O.S.

You can't assume either way with the limited info given.

The shop that did the work I listed in the first post doesn't do alignments. I will be taking it elsewhere for that. I just didn't know if I needed to figure out the steering wheel & horn issue before or after having the front end aligned.

[weq92f]

Originally Posted by cericd

The shop that did the work I listed in the first post doesn't do alignments. I will be taking it elsewhere for that. I just didn't know if I needed to figure out the steering wheel & horn issue before or after having the front end aligned.

I'm confused a bit...did the shop align the front end after essentially rebuilding it or did they inform you that you needed to have it aligned before driving it?

If they farmed out the alignment to another shop, you can take it to that shop and have them take care of any issues ( your wheel being upside down and/or whether the truck goes straight and the other things mentioned ). In this case you've already paid for the service.

If they did not align then I suspect as others have, therein is the issue. Your chosen shop will be able to point out any major problems with the steering components.

-klb

[Willys_MB]

I agree with 68 POS. You can borrow (for free) a steering wheel puller at your local auto parts store and do it in about 5 minutes. I've had mine off 5-6 times this way. It's an easy fix, but I agree, the shop SHOULD have fixed it. They probably spun the shaft getting the rag joint and steering gear connected and didn't notice. If it's worth taking your truck there and leaving it for a day (or who knows how long...) then take it back. Otherwise just go to NAPA/O'Reilly/AutoZone/whatever and borrow a steering wheel puller. All it takes is a 5/8" (I might be wrong on that one...) socket and a socket wrench and you're done.

[Accelo]

The rag joint has provisions so it can't be mated incorrectly. That's why it has two different size bolts.
However, if it was rebuilt it could have been assembled wrong. Which is what I suspect they did.
If it was replace you should have gotten your old parts returned.
The steering shaft has a mark on the end of it that looks like a chisel mark and there is a matching one on the wheel.
That's how GM to assembled it, by matching the marks. My guess is they didn't pull the wheel.
If they did they wouldn't have put it back on upside down.
Some vehicles have the turn signal cam on the wheel so rotating the wheel can mess with the proper function of the turn signal canceling.

I just hate it when shops blame others "it came in that way" which you know but can't prove. Like one wouldn't notice if the wheel was upside down! If they fix it fine. If they don't take responsibly never go back.

[cericd]

Thanks for the info so far. I was told that they did not remove and reinstall the steering wheel and from looking at the steering wheel nut I can see that there is greasy dust that hasn't been disturbed so I'm sure they didn't take the wheel off. I will be having a front end alignment done but was wondering if there was something that should be taken care of first, i.e. the proper orientation of the rag joint or centering of the steering gear.

I also forgot to mention that the horn has stopped working since this work was done. We tested it with a with a piece of wire straight from the battery to the horn and it blows but pressing the button on the steering wheel doesn't work.

I'll have to test the blinkers.

[Willys_MB]

Originally Posted by cericd

Thanks for the info so far. I was told that they did not remove and reinstall the steering wheel and from looking at the steering wheel nut I can see that there is greasy dust that hasn't been disturbed so I'm sure they didn't take the wheel off. I will be having a front end alignment done but was wondering if there was something that should be taken care of first, i.e. the proper orientation of the rag joint or centering of the steering gear.

I also forgot to mention that the horn has stopped working since this work was done. We tested it with a with a piece of wire straight from the battery to the horn and it blows but pressing the button on the steering wheel doesn't work.

I'll have to test the blinkers.

There's a ground in the rag joint that I believe your horn needs to work. I could be totally wrong. Either way, that ground touches the steering shaft and if it was a rebuilt rag joint like you said, they may have just left it (and not even cleaned it).

I'd wait to mess with your steering wheel until the alignment gets done. I put my wheel on straight before getting it aligned and then had to do it again after getting the alignment done. Anything wrong with the steering components will get caught by the alignment shop. The rag joint is easy to inspect and see if it's installed properly, just turn your wheels to the left and get under there

[pjmoreland]

If your steering gearbox isn't in the center of its travel when you are driving straight down the road, then the geometry of your steering linkage is not right (tie rod ends set at different lengths on left and right sides). That doesn't seem like a good thing. With the wheels straight, does the Pitman arm appear to be at a perfect 90 degree angle to the centerlink?

You also might want to pop the horn button off to see if the mark stamped into the steering column shaft is aligned with 12 o'clock on your steering wheel.

[Tom70C20]

My guess is also the rag joint.

I had a similar situation on my 71 Camaro. The steering wheel looked correct but the blinkers wouldn't turn off automatically after a turn. Someone prior to me had assembled the rag joint so the upper shaft was upside down, but mounted the steering wheel right side up. Flipped both the rag joint and the wheel and all is fine.

[DeadheadNM]

Have the front end aligned. Once aligned, use a puller to remove the steering wheel then realign it on the column and reinstall it. Drive and enjoy.

[Steeveedee]

A decent alignment shop will center the steering wheel and verify that that position has equal turns lock to lock, and then set the toe if it doesn't. The shop that did the original work could have done that just as easily, except for possibly being a little out of toe if they don't have an alignment equipment. But I can set the toe to the proper range with a couple of straight boards and a tape measure. I hope you didn't pay too much, 'cuz those guys appear to be parts-changers, especially when you consider that the horn doesn't work, now.

[Boog]

A request to the alignment shop to be sure to inspect ALL of the steering components for proper assembly while they are in there would be prudent. And any good alignment shop will make sure the steering wheel is straight before releasing it to you.

[Andy4639]

If they took the rag joint loose to replace the box then they didn't line it up when they reinstalled it. That being said I wouldn't trust anything they did. That is a basic job that they should have looked at it marked it and made sure it went back together right.

Now with that said. Turn the wheels from lock to lock and count the number of turns and then go to the half way mark and see where the steering wheel is and how the tires look. Then pull the steering wheel off and realign it. Then take it to alignment shop. Once that is all done do it again and it should be fine.

[kwmech]

Originally Posted by Andy4639

If they took the rag joint loose to replace the box then they didn't line it up when they reinstalled it. That being said I wouldn't trust anything they did. That is a basic job that they should have looked at it marked it and made sure it went back together right.

Now with that said. Turn the wheels from lock to lock and count the number of turns and then go to the half way mark and see where the steering wheel is and how the tires look. Then pull the steering wheel off and realign it. Then take it to alignment shop. Once that is all done do it again and it should be fine.

This, but I have something to add. If you have to pull the steering wheel off, do not pay attention to where the wheels are. This is the steering box center and when they align, the steer wheel should be straight with the tires if they did it correctly. In fact when you pick it up, check the steering wheel center in the parking lot before you drive out. AND make sure the steering wheel is straight when you go down the road. I cannot understand how it could be so far off after taking to a "pro?"

[57taskforce]

I’m not sure about the 2wd boxes but the power 4x4 boxes have a master spline so the rag joint can only be put on one way. The rag joint will only bolt to the steering intermediate shaft one way as well.

[dmjlambert]

Not all rag joints have a flat spot in the inside splined part that goes on the input shaft of the steering gear. And not all steering gears have a flat spot on the input shaft. So if your rag joint has a round hole for the input shaft, it could have been put onto the input shaft in any orientation. You could pull the rag joint off and look at it, but as others mention you can easily take the steering wheel off and re-orient it. The shop where I got my alignment centered the steering wheel as the final part of doing the alignment.

[firedemon]

when i switched mine to power steering i had the same problem it turned out to be the rag joint the holes were drilled wrong in the new joint . the larger and smaller were swapped . did you use the kit from summit made by cpp? i think they sent the wrong rag joint . it worked but made the steering wheel upside down i just removed the steering wheel and put it on right side up . its been fine and i dont have any problems with the horn so im leaving it the way it is

[cericd]

The guy has been doing this stuff for a long time and has done some really nice work in the past. For instance the 1972 Chevy pickup pictured below which was featured in Custom Classic Trucks, so I'm sure he's more than capable. I would think a front disc brake swap and adding power steering to my truck would be a piece of cake for him. That's why I'm confused.

[Andy4639]

You would think so. Maybe they just had a bad day, who knows.
But they had to take it a part to swap in the power steering box, so they didn't look at the alignment of the steering wheel when they put it back together which to me is a basic step.
I would jack it up and do as I stated the first time. Turn it lock to lock counting the turns. Then center it and look at the wheels compared to steering wheel. Then leave it and lower it back down. Pull the steering wheel and re center it to the right spot. Just tighten the shaft nut enough to test drive it in a safe place and make sure the steering wheel and wheels are good and straight. Then tighten it up and drive it to have the front end done.

[kwmech]

Yeah, well the steering wheel in that pic isn't straight either. As I said, the steering wheel needs to be straight with the box centered. Then you align. That's the way I was taught

[Andy4639]

Originally Posted by kwmech

Yeah, well the steering wheel in that pic isn't straight either. As I said, the steering wheel needs to be straight with the box centered. Then you align. That's the way I was taught

Yea, but the wheels are turned though in the sitting still picture of the truck.