My LQ4/T56 build thread

[Qwk]

Very cool build! Subscribing for updates!

[Overdriven]

Originally Posted by ChuckLee

Not sure what I'm going to do with this clutch pedal setup I plan on re-purposing. It was mated to an el cheapo clutch MC that was connected to my old T5 setup in the truck. I need to fabricate something that gives me a nice long clutch pedal throw/feel while only allowing the clutch master pushrod to actuate at the correct length via some type of lever or something. hmmm. any suggestions feel free to post your solutions.

Untitled by FlickrAccount83, on Flickr

I guess the current setup doesn't offer enough pedal throw for your tastes? Easiest way is to increase throw would be to put the actuating rod closer to the pedal pivot point to change the pedal ratio but yours is already pretty close to the pivot point.

Another option is using a clutch master with a different bore size. Problem here is you're changing the slave cylinder from the external T5 to the LS style internal integrated throwout bearing/slave cylinder T56 combo. The bore size on your current clutch master may be better or worse for your new slave cylinder. Without knowing if it truly is better or worse you won't know whether to increase or decrease clutch master bore size.

Best thing to do is try and lookup what clutch master is used in a particular application (say Camaro) with your slave cylinder and see if you can figure out the pedal ratio for that application. Then with a little measuring you can replicate that pedal ratio and get the same amount of throw that you would in the original application. The only other thing you would have to do is adjust the length of the pushrod to set the pedal height, maybe install a clutch pedal stop and you'd be good to go.

If that's not complicated enough for you, adding a bellcrank will allow you to change the pedal ratio to whatever you want. Beware the math and/or trial and error involved, let alone mounting and making the thing beefy enough! Forgive my crude drawing and the fancy Lokar pedals but it does illustrate the basics. The green line is the bellcrank, red dot is the pivot point. Changing the distance of the link mounting point from the pivot point on the bellcrank changes the pedal ratio.

[ChuckLee]

Originally Posted by NC_John

You ought not buy springs or pushrods until you have your cam picked out.

I'd avoid the comp lifters.

You are going to need to upsize your intake and injectors for that cam.

Good advice John, thank you. I definitely am sold on the cam you got, the more I read about it, the more I think it is exactly what i want. I noticed a lot of bad reviews on comp cams stuff. i thought the truck intake would flow plenty good enough for this cam and ported heads, no? As for injectors, you think 39#ers is what i need? I wish I had someone local i knew that could "guide me" in purchasing motor stuff so I know i can just bolt up, cam up, and start it up.

On another note, I'm considering buying these heads now....the fully assembled 799's you see on this listing. what you think? seems like a really good deal, but not sure what else i would need to make these heads work with that cam i want. i'm trying to avoid having to buy every part piece by piece as that gets too expensive, and quick!
http://ls1tech.com/forums/parts-clas...ine-parts.html

Originally Posted by Qwk

Very cool build! Subscribing for updates!

Thank you very much for the encouragement. I'm having fun planning and building. This is all new to me. I'm not too high-minded to take some advice so feel free to chime in any time. Your t56 build is sweet!

Originally Posted by Overdriven

I guess the current setup doesn't offer enough pedal throw for your tastes?

Best thing to do is try and lookup what clutch master is used in a particular application (say Camaro) with your slave cylinder and see if you can figure out the pedal ratio for that application. Then with a little measuring you can replicate that pedal ratio and get the same amount of throw that you would in the original application. The only other thing you would have to do is adjust the length of the pushrod to set the pedal height, maybe install a clutch pedal stop and you'd be good to go.

Thanks for all the good advice here Overdriven. I'm definitely happy with my current pedal travel, just not certain as to which clutch MC to purchase. Maybe i should just measure what pushrod throw i have right now with the current setup and try to get the bore size that will allow me to keep the current pivot point on my pedal/pushrod. That seems easiest....but the thing i'll need to learn is how to come up with correct bore size.

[Overdriven]

I forget the specifics on bore size vs travel, had it in my head but lost it. Probably easier to just lookup the bore size for your current master and compare to other applications that use your slave cylinder. If they're different then maybe you should measure pushrod travel and do some math to find a size that'll work.

[Qwk]

Originally Posted by ChuckLee

Thank you very much for the encouragement. I'm having fun planning and building. This is all new to me. I'm not too high-minded to take some advice so feel free to chime in any time. Your t56 build is sweet!

Thanks! You are going to LOVE driving your truck with a T56/LS combo. What rear gear & tire size will you be running?

[ChuckLee]

starting to "finalize" in my mind what i am going to do with motor. how's this sound?

1) ported 799 heads (DelWest Titanium valves, PSI springs, tool steel retainers. 64cc chamber, CNC ported by Wegner Motorsports)
2) tick torquemax stage 2 cam
3) hardened pushrods (length to be determined)
4) ls7 lifters and ls2 trays
5) trunion kit on stock rockers
6) Manley 8mm lash caps
7) ls6 injectors on my stock truck intake? (i already purchased my fuel fittings/lines/ etc for a return style truck intake)

[dayj1]

Originally Posted by ChuckLee

how's this sound?

ls6 injectors on my stock truck intake? (i already purchased my fuel fittings/lines/ etc for a return style truck intake)

The LS6 injectors are 28.6 lbs/hr and the stock LQ4 injectors are 24.7. That's not a lot of difference (about 13%). If you're going through the trouble of changing them, you may want to consider what future mods you might do and plan accordingly.

[ChuckLee]

good point, probably going to go 39#ers then.

any thoughts on the intake situation? I read all over the place that the truck intake is a great performer (though ugly) up until 5500rpm, then it falls flat. I'll barely every be in that rpm range. I want low-mid range torque. More than anything I don't want to admit defeat and return a bunch of return style fuel fittings and stuff. lol

[dayj1]

Originally Posted by ChuckLee

good point, probably going to go 39#ers then.

any thoughts on the intake situation? I read all over the place that the truck intake is a great performer (though ugly) up until 5500rpm, then it falls flat. I'll barely every be in that rpm range. I want low-mid range torque. More than anything I don't want to admit defeat and return a bunch of return style fuel fittings and stuff. lol

I would agree that the truck intake performs fine. The car intakes definitely look better, but you have to factor into the cost of things like relocating accessories to clear the throttle body. If you really want a car intake and you want to keep the return fuel rail, a '97 or '98 'vette fuel rail is return style and it bolts right on all the ls1 and ls6 intakes.

Here's a link to an article comparing several OE manifolds and an aftermarket FAST one: http://www.powerperformancenews.com/...fast-ls-intake Scroll almost to the bottom of the linked article and there's a graph of all the intake results.

[NC_John]

Originally Posted by ChuckLee

good point, probably going to go 39#ers then.

any thoughts on the intake situation? I read all over the place that the truck intake is a great performer (though ugly) up until 5500rpm, then it falls flat. I'll barely every be in that rpm range. I want low-mid range torque. More than anything I don't want to admit defeat and return a bunch of return style fuel fittings and stuff. lol

Depends on what year intake you have. The later intakes have bigger ports, bigger throttle bodies and typically bigger injectors. Tick said my 04 was going to be undersized for real power on my LQ4 so I bought a takeoff '11 LC9 setup off the lstech board. Its the same intake as the trailblazer ss and has bigger everything while still allowing me to keep the truck accessories. I was told by Tick that it'd be a good match for the cam.

[NC_John]

Originally Posted by dayj1

The LS6 injectors are 28.6 lbs/hr and the stock LQ4 injectors are 24.7. That's not a lot of difference (about 13%). If you're going through the trouble of changing them, you may want to consider what future mods you might do and plan accordingly.

The LC9 injectors I picked up are PN 12613411 and rated at 36 lbs/hr. The flex fuel injectors are typically rated pretty high for when they are on the ethanol crap (lower BTU than gasoline so they have to flow a lot higher to make the same power)

[NC_John]

Originally Posted by ChuckLee

Good advice John, thank you. I definitely am sold on the cam you got, the more I read about it, the more I think it is exactly what i want. I noticed a lot of bad reviews on comp cams stuff. i thought the truck intake would flow plenty good enough for this cam and ported heads, no? As for injectors, you think 39#ers is what i need? I wish I had someone local i knew that could "guide me" in purchasing motor stuff so I know i can just bolt up, cam up, and start it up.

On another note, I'm considering buying these heads now....the fully assembled 799's you see on this listing. what you think? seems like a really good deal, but not sure what else i would need to make these heads work with that cam i want. i'm trying to avoid having to buy every part piece by piece as that gets too expensive, and quick!
http://ls1tech.com/forums/parts-clas...ine-parts.html


Thank you very much for the encouragement. I'm having fun planning and building. This is all new to me. I'm not too high-minded to take some advice so feel free to chime in any time. Your t56 build is sweet!



Thanks for all the good advice here Overdriven. I'm definitely happy with my current pedal travel, just not certain as to which clutch MC to purchase. Maybe i should just measure what pushrod throw i have right now with the current setup and try to get the bore size that will allow me to keep the current pivot point on my pedal/pushrod. That seems easiest....but the thing i'll need to learn is how to come up with correct bore size.

see my other post about injectors... and for the intake - if yours is early, look for a later model takeoff intake setup on lstech (all the guys are upgrading the FAST intakes, especially if they are trying to get an LQ4/9 under the hood of an f-body.

I saw those heads of lstech but I would probably avoid them. First of all, you can't really verify the condition and they could be shagged out (not likely but possible). Second of all, being "NASCAR" heads, if they in fact are, they are built for top end RPM only and probably won't work at all with the cam selected. They give up a lot down low to max the power up high. Third, I've never even heard of the builder. Could be a third or fourth tier level builder for a minor-league series.

Personally I think you'd be better off getting a set of clean 243s and getting them built yourself to suit your own build. (243s are better than 799s - the 799s are mostly made in mexico and the casting quality is said to be not as good as the 243s)

I know what you mean about buying everything- its nickel and diming me to death, but I am confident I am going to have the engine I want the first time.

For your clutch setup you need to find out what size master cylinder you need for the slave (monster will probably know if they supplied it). I have to find out if my wilwood master is still the right size since I changed slaves.

[ChuckLee]

Well, I haven't decided what I'm going to do with this LQ4 yet. I just don't want to say, "meh" after i stomp on it the first time. I am determined not to go with a car intake, and also determined not to switch to TBSS intake because I have already committed to the return style rail. (i suppose that's the frugality and stubbornness coming out in me).

Got distracted when my hood finally showed up for my ls swapped rx7. that's gonna look sweet.
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And then i got a sweet deal on a cheapo Longevity 40d plasma cutter
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Then a buddy gave me a honking piece of steel plate (3/8"x4'x9') so i'm going to make some welding/work tables i think
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Back to the truck...so this is my first metal fab job. It's not near done, but this gives you an idea. I'll have to strengthen this with some triangulated support once my exhaust is finished. Right now, it flexes when you rest the weight of the tranny on it (i expected that and trust it won't after i strengthen it. fingers crossed. No need to attack my welding skills, I'm a complete beginner just playing around for now.
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[binford]

Will be watching this build

I assume you just don't want the exhaust to go over the stock cross member?
In your design, you could eliminate a few welds if you just bolted it to the top of the frame rail C vs the bottom which would help with strength.

Analogy: You want to create a good 3 legged stool for the engine and transmission to sit on. 2 motor mounts and 1 transmission mount make up the legs of the stool. This way as the frame flexes your motor and trans are supported evenly. If your transmission cross member is flexing in addition to the rubber/poly mount, the engine motor mounts will suffer as they will be trying resist the extra flex.

Look for something you like and copy it. You don't have to use pipe/tube, but suspects it's 3/16" thick so it won't flex as much.

[ChuckLee]

Thanks for the advice. My plan was to put some angled pieces in that shortens up the long runs between the frame and the tranny from each side. I was also planning on bolting this together from the top part and the bottom part of the frame like the factory one does. I honestly may end up redoing the whole thing. It being my first metal piece, I was just happy that it stuck together, lol.

Spent a little time last night tying my 220v power from the lift to a 220v plug for welding and plasma cutting

[jwilb88]

[QUOTE=ChuckLee;7795164]Well, I haven't decided what I'm going to do with this LQ4 yet. I just don't want to say, "meh" after i stomp on it the first time. I am determined not to go with a car intake, and also determined not to switch to TBSS intake because I have already committed to the return style rail. (i suppose that's the frugality and stubbornness coming out in me).

I too share your opinion for the car intake, the only stock car intake worth swapping to would be the LS6 and it would only be worth that if you had car accessories. Your intake will be just fine, Will the gen 4 truck intake make more power? Yes, How much more? 10-15 RWHP seems to be common among the dyno results I've seen. As for the heads 243's or 799's doesn't matter same heads. The only differences in some 243's were sodium filled valves and I believe those were only put on the 01-04 ZO6. If you were planning 20lbs of boost for this thing yeah maybe I would search for the 243's due to the slight chance the casting is a little better quality. I faced the same dilemma as you during the planning of my build because I wonted to use the return fuel rail with built in regulator but I ended up going with the GEN 4 truck intake. Your intake will accept the 8.1 truck injectors as a direct replacement (length and electrical connector are the same). The 8.1 injectors are 31lb and will be plenty for your set up but, my honest opinion would be swap to the gen 4 intake and use the flex fuel injectors. You could pick up a corvette filter with built in return and regulator making the fuel system a lot cheaper if your using braided line. As far as the bottom end of the motor, put ARP rod bolts in and rip on it!

[ChuckLee]

Very good advice. I may just do all that. Wish I had not committed and bought all the fuel stuff already. Oh well.

[ChuckLee]

Got a safety question: i think I know the answer based on looking at the suspension setup....but I would rather ask a dumb safety question than assume something and break my face or arm.

Question: WHILE VEHICLE IS UP IN AIR ON MY LIFT, DO I NEED TO USE A SPRING COMPRESSOR BEFORE REMOVING TRAILING ARMS? IS THERE ANY DANGER ASSOCIATED WITH SIMPLY UNBOLTING THE TRAILING ARMS FROM FRONT OR REAR OF ARMS?

[NC_John]

Originally Posted by ChuckLee

Got a safety question: i think I know the answer based on looking at the suspension setup....but I would rather ask a dumb safety question than assume something and break my face or arm.

Question: WHILE VEHICLE IS UP IN AIR ON MY LIFT, DO I NEED TO USE A SPRING COMPRESSOR BEFORE REMOVING TRAILING ARMS? IS THERE ANY DANGER ASSOCIATED WITH SIMPLY UNBOLTING THE TRAILING ARMS FROM FRONT OR REAR OF ARMS?

They aren't loaded up like the fronts but you still have to be careful. I put axle stands under the axle and use my floor jack to lower the trailing arm slowly. They are bolted to the trailing arm as well so they won't go flying.

[ChuckLee]

happy new year all.
I've been busy, hence the slow progress.
Another year to enjoy serving the Lord, my family, and working on projects like this.
Little update.

Started rebuild on the Saginaw steering box. My oh my, hindsight is 20/20! I only had a leak out the front seal, and bought the whole rebuild kit (part #sk402). I sure wish I would have just replaced ONLY the front seal area. The only real challenge was getting the nylon ring seals to go back in their grooves and them all back together without overstretching them or breaking them while pushing the unit back into the box housing. What a pain! I broke them, and ordered another kit and will have to try that again once it comes in the mail.
IMG_8660[1] by FlickrAccount83, on Flickr

Greased all zerx fittings with some nice Mobil1 stuff I like then cleaned up the mess that makes and of course taped off all fittings prior to paint. Before I took body off for last time I fitted the drivetrain in once more and test-fit the Poly body mount bushings to ensure trans clearance was good. So glad I went with these poly bushings, and looking forward to put the other suspension bushings in later down the road. That should really firm things up and hopefully get rid of the swaying and jumping over bumps on the interstate.

Stitch welded the trailing arms till my tank was empty (bummer becasue I wasn't able to finish this job before painting chassis because I had only one day where weather was good enough for painting) I'll finish this later. Priority is paint as winter is setting in.
frame paint (6) by FlickrAccount83, on Flickr

Frame was in great shape, just minor surface rust.
PO used some undercoating on front end.
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You know how it goes, spent days grinding, wire wheeling, and cleaning up the metal on the frame before paint. Prep prep prep
Rust came off no problem. Here's the VIN on frame.
frame paint (2) by FlickrAccount83, on Flickr

Hung some plastic to prevent dust and overspray going everywhere. Home Depot sells 12'x400' plastic (i think it's .32 mil) for only $24.95) Also gave everything two rub downs with some acetone to remove any oils etc. I know I could have take this to the next level by breaking down the front end more and rear end but I didn't want to do that for this build.
frame paint (5) by FlickrAccount83, on Flickr

frame paint (4) by FlickrAccount83, on Flickr

I have used POR15 product in the past and was honestly very dissatisfied with it. This time I went with Eastwood's Rust Encapsulator to start off.
frame paint (7) by FlickrAccount83, on Flickr

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frame paint (13) by FlickrAccount83, on Flickr

All in all, I'm very happy with how it laid down with a cheap gun and about 15% thinner. Already can tell this will be better than POR15 and it isn't so volatile and IMPOSSIBLE to remove off skin.

Next, I'll be applying Eastwood's Chassis Black 2k ceramic 2 part topcoat. Will have a little gloss to it, and should look pretty

I ended up ditching my trans brace and going with a modified stock layout and was able to do so without drilling any new holes into frame, score! I'll have plenty of room to route exhaust, that will be a learning curve for me, no pun intended.

[ChuckLee]

Chassis Black in gloss finished. 2 medium coats was plenty good enough.
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I'm not a fan of shiny frames......but I think it will be good for me as dust will come off easier and it will clean up better in the future. I live off a dirt road so that's an issue for me.
If anyone thinks I had that kerosene heater going with paint fumes or acetone or thinner bottles open, think again
that would be quite a fireball there!

[ChuckLee]

I know it has been quiet on here recently, but only because I have been deliberating big changes for the motor. So, instead of going stock LQ4 with a cam, I'm doing more. I will be updating with pictures and info once parts are mostly all in. I should have known I would do this, lol.

In meantime, I tore the motor down:
IMG_7031 by FlickrAccount83, on Flickr

I sold the harness, tac module, DBW pedal, and PCM (green/blue) for $300
and bought something cleaner (parts will be shown later date)


1)beautiful bores, crosshatch all looks like new. Just cleaned it all up.
IMG_8798 by FlickrAccount83, on Flickr

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2)the usual cam bearing wear that shouldn't be any trouble (at least from all the tons of research I've come across)
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3)cam looked good too
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3) and paint (Rustoleum engine enamel gloss black with a couple layers of Rustoleum engine clear
IMG_8894 by FlickrAccount83, on Flickr

[ChuckLee]

Have been busy working a lot lately, but have updates nonetheless.
Made a change in direction with the LQ4, going with more power.

NASCAR 799 heads CNC ported by Wegner Motorsports. Del-West titanium intake and exhaust valves (stock 2.00 and 1.55 size). PSI Maxlife valve springs good for .630, hardened retainers, locks, and seats
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TSP MS3 Pro Cam 238/242 .600/.600 LSA 113
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LS2 flat top pistons and rods with floating pins to raise compression. They have 39k on them, I need to have the rods checked for size to ensure they are usable. If not I will get a new set or just get Scat I beam forged rods.
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Edelbrock 7139 intake
Edelbrock Pro-flo XT fuel rails
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Edelbrock 90mm TB (I've switched to DBC)
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FAST injectors (flow 42lb at 58psi) 0280155868
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ARP head studs
ARP 2000 rod bolts
ARP balancer bolt (and balancer bolt install tool)
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new Brian Tooley Racing trunnion upgrade to rockers (peace of mind)
new LS7 lifters and trays
lq4 oil cooler adapter block off
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pushrods are yet to be determined

Plug wires straight from China (pre-Trump taxed)
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Spectre air intake kit with MAF installed. I may paint this wrinkle black along with the valve covers. Untitled by FlickrAccount83, on Flickr

PSI wiring harness (EV1 injectors, DBC). Was going to redo my lq4 DBW harness but I sold it for $300 with PCM and TAC and pedal so that helped pay for a unused, pretty harness. Bought it for $475. Glad I did this, now I can focus on other things instead of wiring.
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Auto Meter gauges Ultra Lite II (MPH,Tach,Water,Oil Press,fuel, volts) and LS adapter kit
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2005 silverado radiator upper and lower hoses (not sure how they are going to fit over the stock radiator but we shall see) Everyone swears they work.
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LS2 timing chain
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T56 Tick speed bleeder

Have the tank mocked up. Ordered Aeromotive FPR and a bunch more AN fittings. Fuel leaks or possible fire problems is the LAST thing I want to worry about so I haven't gone cheap here. Only name brand AN fittings from tank all the way back to tank. (yes, I consider Summit name brand, they make great fittings)
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Finished stitch welding the stock rear control arms

Replaced Trailing arm bushings, track arm bushings, and front sway bar bushings with polyurethane. Also replaced all cab and radiator support bushings with polyurethane. Note to anyone else that may be as dumb as me....the trailing arm bushings only go in one way.
Getting out the old ones was a cinch, no smoke required. Just do the drill method, much cleaner in my opinion.
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Rebuilt the Saginaw steering box. If I may help anyone out there, if only the input shaft is leaking at top, ONLY replace the seals to fix that, even if you bought the whole rebuild kit. It's not impossible, but time consuming and difficult to rebuilt the box. The nylon rings are not easy to stretch correctly to install. It can be done, just not worth it if you don't have a problem there.

Lares 201 rag washer (steering coupler) is a perfect oem replacement for me, wahoo! Ordered through advanced auto and had them price match.
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If I end up painting or blasting anything, I'll need more air. Scored this compressor brand new never used for $300 on Craigslist. Thanks Craig!
Out with the old
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in with the new
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CC'd head chambers to verify for CR number crunching and verification. Looks like they are not milled. There was still a couple bubbles left, so that's why it's not right at 64.45cc) FYI amazon sells a nice acrylic buret for only 25 shipped.....or you can spend two or three times the amount for the same thing through a auto parts website.
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Lapping all valves.
Cheap Ebay spring compressor
will finish that when new tool arrives
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Cleaned and Painted lot of parts including T56
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[NC_John]

Looks great Chuck. At your current pace you'll be running way before I am. I hope to get my heads back next week. Still waiting to see my callies rotating assembly (they are behind with the balancing right now).

[LS short box]

I've been following your build. I'm doing something similar but with a LS3.

I've done a number of LS swaps. Not that I'm an expert but the cam you selected may struggle to generate enough vacuum for power brakes. That much duration and small lobe center will sound very cool but may not work well with power brakes.

Also thou I'm no great welder but if like on your trailing arms if you cleaned the rust off before welding it works so much better. When you are trying to weld thru rust the wire tends to hunt around for the path of least resistance so the weld pool ends up looking goofy. I have a 211 Miller running on 110 volt and it's night and day better on nice clean steel compared to non clean steel.

Good luck with your build. I will stay tuned.