Thoughts on using 96 Vortec 350

[Yukon Jack]

I friend rolled his 1996 (not 1995 as I originally wrote) Extended cab pickup a couple days ago with extensive sheet metal damage. It is a Vortec 350 but I don't know the miles on the engine. I could probably get the engine pretty cheap, maybe $300 to $400. My dream is to someday replace my whimpy 307 with a 383 but that is years away. I'm wondering if I should give any consideration to trying to buy this engine and not go the 383 route in a few years.

I'm okay mechanically doing suspension stuff but I'm pretty, well, stupid, when it comes to engines. Is this type of a swap better left to someone who knows what they are doing enginewise?

I'm really after more torque so maybe this engine wouldn't be a good choice anyway. Fuel injection would be great, but then again, the computer issue would have to be addressed and with that I keep coming back to the issue of lack of engine knowledge.

This option may not be cost effective once the computer issue is address anyway but I just wanted to get some general thoughts from my buds.

[68 Suburban]

I think they are great engines. You can scrap the fuel injection and get the special manifold and run a carb. Im not sure if you can run a mechanical fuel pump though.

[68 Suburban]

if you don't buy it, I would be interested in it

[72chevyLWB]

There is no provision for a mechanical pump on 87 and up blocks. I am running a carburated Vortec motor in my truck thats built up a bit too. Running a factory Fuel injected vortec 350 would be awesome. The power is great in those engines. It would be a tricky swap though because those use OBD II system on them. The check engine light will come on if you leave the gas cap off. Painless wiring would more than likely make a wiring kit for you that would work sweet, but the wiring would cost more than the engine. Is your buddy keeping the truck and parting it out? If so what color interior does he have? I am looking for the "OH S&%T" handles for my truck.

[Longhorn Man]

Slap an electric fuel pump on there, install the engine with a performer vortec intake, and a carb of your choice. (IMO...edelbrock 600 w/electric shoke) This will keep you trouble free for many years to come, and if you tune your carb properly, your torque needs will no longer be an issue.
You will also need a pre emissions (mid to late 70's) HEI.
The water temp hole on head will be very small, use the hole on intake instead.
I may be wron, but I think the oil pressure hole on top behinde the intake is goofey too, you can over come this one too though.
This is very close to a simple remove and install.
I say jump on it.
Even if it is a 100,000 mile engine, it has a roller cam and is good forever. (d@mn near anyways)

[Yukon Jack]

I might just have to do some talking with him. It's great to know I've got people on here to help me out if I do this. He only had liability insurance so it's a total loss to him and he was indicating today he was going to talk to the body shop to see what salvage would be but he guessed it would only be $400 to $600. I'm just guessing on the price range on the engine - I think I will call him in the morning to discuss it and see if the engine has any problems.

If I do this, I would want to still go with the SM465 that I have ready to swap in. Am I correct in assuming the bellhousing that I already have for the SM465 will work with the Vortec engine?

I'm very interested in hearing other people's opinion on this - I never jump into stuff like this with out feeling the water first!

[68 Suburban]

Well if you decided not to do it and he still wnats to sell the engine, please keep me in mind. thanks

[vcrazy8]

On mine the flywheel was different bolt pattern and it also has balance weight

[Custom 68]

Just checking I dont think the vortec was available till 1996 I believe you said both years. I have a 1996 Tahoe with the vortec very strong and good engine. Go for it.

[Blue68]

I just finished dropping in a 98 vortec in mine. I researched and calculated and hemmed and hawed over keeping the vortec fuel injection. In the end it was going to cost WAY too much for what it would give me. I decided if I ever want to get injection I'd go aftermarket.

Luckily, you are talking old enough, believe it or not, that you could find harnesses for it. The 98 went to ODBDII and I would have to have gotten a 97 computer. More money. I got the ENTIRE engine, intake, injection, and accessories for $300. Had about 90k on it. Keep in mind that the cylinders don't wear as much on an injected engine since you don't flood it and wash oil off the cylinder walls. And with the roller cam, what wear? Of course, I had to hype it up while it was out with a better cam. Check this out... http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/Chev...e_4x4_350.html if you want. It is essentially what I've got except my intake and carb are a little more sedate. I worked with Sallee (sorry they aren't a supporter) and they know their engines. Pointed out what had to be done to use a timing pointer instead of the platic chain cover that won't tell you anything.

Let me know if you have any questions. I'll be out of pocket (camping) a few days, but I will get back to you next week if you drop me an email. Top of my head...electric fuel pump, timing chain (too many miles) and gears, camshaft, valve springs, intake, used my carb, timing chain cover, harmonic damper (there is a reluctor behind the timing cover that will have to go to use a chrome cover), timing pointer....

With the thorley headers, it sound AWSOME and twists the truck up like never before. Poor 307 found a new home with another board member though. He needed to motorvate another ride.

[Mike C]

I think it's a great idea! The Vortec motors make great power. My buddy has a 2000 Welcraft that has a carbed Vortec 350 (Mercruiser 2 bbl intake and marine carb) It has a small inline pump bolted to the front of the block between where a mechanical pump would be and the carb. This seems like an ideal way to do the conversion as you don't drill any holes and it mounts it far away from the passenger area. As noted above, there is a different flywheel pattern, but if you get the whole motor you can use the flywheel and starter that come with it. I hope your buddy is OK.

[Yukon Jack]

Thanks for all the great information. My buddy is sooo lucky to have survived this one. He got ejected and the vehicle could have rolled on him to but it didn't. He's a bit sore but nothing major. Well, I'm going to call him soon and see what he has to say. If I do this, I promise to ask many more questions!

[ckhd]

I would do it in a heartbeat (no pun intended). In fact, I'm saving up to go buy one of those insurance rollovers and swap the engine, transmission, fuel injection, computers...

[ckhd]

Oh, on the OBDII comment, things I have found out doing research on OBDII in the past - ALL new vehicles sold in the US in 1996 and later had to have OBDII. OBDII is ONLY a standardized diagnostics program built into the computer. OBDII = On Board Diagnostics version 2.

The actual computer, sensors, wiring harnesses, etc may be very different between '96 and '98, but the OBDII has no bearing on it.

[Yukon Jack]

Originally posted by Blue68
Top of my head...electric fuel pump, timing chain (too many miles) and gears, camshaft, valve springs, intake, used my carb, timing chain cover, harmonic damper (there is a reluctor behind the timing cover that will have to go to use a chrome cover), timing pointer....

Other than the electric fuel pump and timing chain, intake and carb and timing chain cover, are the rest of the mentioned items things that you did as an upgrade or are some of the other things necessary changes. Will it be necessary to use a different harmonic balancer? Sounds like I should be fine with the new engine's flexplate and starter.

I presently only have power steering on my truck. Would I be able to make a modification so I can use the new engine's power steering pump? The hoses I recall have different fittings so I don't know what I would need to do to get around that issue. It would be nice to be able to use the seperentine belt setup and just kick off the air conditioner compressor if it has one. That would get me a better alternator unless it is controlled by the computer.

The only way I can make this fly is if it is pretty inexpensive to do so I'm just trying to get an idea of what changes are mandatory.

Hope the above questions make sense. Thanks for any additional input!

[Mike C]

I think you can just swap the fitting on the back of the pump and use your original hoses. I KNOW this is true on the 80's pumps, but I just don't have any experience on anything that new... The balancer will be fine. If you do decide to use the Vortec, I would be tempted to run EVERYTHING on the front. The complete serpentine setup, clutch fan, high output alternator, anything you can get.

[dmnall]

Originally posted by Blue68
I just finished dropping in a 98 vortec in mine. I researched and calculated and hemmed and hawed over keeping the vortec fuel injection. In the end it was going to cost WAY too much for what it would give me. I decided if I ever want to get injection I'd go aftermarket.

Luckily, you are talking old enough, believe it or not, that you could find harnesses for it. The 98 went to ODBDII and I would have to have gotten a 97 computer. More money. I got the ENTIRE engine, intake, injection, and accessories for $300. Had about 90k on it. Keep in mind that the cylinders don't wear as much on an injected engine since you don't flood it and wash oil off the cylinder walls. And with the roller cam, what wear? Of course, I had to hype it up while it was out with a better cam.

Another thing to mention with the Vortec's and their Fuel injection especially with 1998, you need to have 4 O2 Sensors, 2 Cats, You need the Key and Keyswitch from the 98 Truck, And Basically you need to be an Electricle Engineer to get them to work with any older truck. If you do not get the Key and Keyswitch from the 98 Truck, you will not be able to start the engine because in 98 the keys themselves has a Chip In them that is part of the Anti-Theft feature for the Computer..

If it were me, just run the Engine with either a Performer for Vortec or RPM Vortec manifold with a Carter or Edelbrock 4bbl Carb (less Hassles). Trust me the Heads Alone Flow just as well as 202 Fuelie Heads at High rpms. You can be running around 325 HP and still get almost 400 Ft Lbs of Torque because Velocity! I am currently running 462 Cast Fuelie Heads and if my Heads mess up (i.e. Crack or Suck A Valve) I am going to invest in some Fast Burn Vortec heads just to get more flow! Also 90,000 miles on any 87- Up Block is nothing. My block is a 1991 and when I rebuilt it, that block had 98,000 miles and No Ridge in the Block!! So I just replaced Rings, and Bearings. I have about 4500 miles on my engine!!

[Project1970]

At the least, snag the cylinder heads. Chevy High Performance did a buildup with the GM HT383 crate engine which uses the Vortec heads - and without a whole lot of work, got about 450hp and 500lb/ft of torque! Flaaaaat torque curve, too...400+lb/ft from 2300 to 5700RPM...

I want one.

[Longhorn Man]

heck, car fraft got 325 horse out of a 305 with these heads...on a 80,000 mile old pre-roller cam short block!

[Blue68]

Your correct about not HAVING to swap the balancer, but if you wish to go with a earlier timing chain cover and a pointer you will, or you will have to grind off the teeth on the reluctor.

Also, the point about the computer was correct, I would have to go back to a 97 computer because of all the extra sensors and the pass key. Didn't want the extra headache and expense. The Edelbrock 600 and Performer seem to do the trick just fine.

[Yukon Jack]

Well, talked to the guy with the truck and he said the salvage is right around $1,200.00 and that the person he spoke with said the engine was worth $300 to $500. Unfortunately he indicated without the engine it is not very attractive to the salvage guys so he can't just sell me the engine. I understand cause he's got to get as much out of it as possible. I'm gonna do some thinking but I really don't think I want to buy the whole thing and then try to recoup my money by selling the extra parts or selling the salvage outright. With a rollover, I don't even know how likely it is that the tranny survived without damage - I assume the tranny would have a fair amount of value.

Time to do some pondering. Oh, and looking at my pocket book that probably couldn't afford $1,200.00 anyway

[Blue68]

As Promised.

[Blue68]

and another

[Blue68]

The last

[Blue68]

Sorry about the salvage not wanting to sell the engine. The tranny really isn't worth a lot to old hot rodders due to the computer controls though.