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Old 06-26-2022, 08:12 AM   #26
Keith Seymore
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Re: Why, Chevrolet, just why?

*That's one of the things I am enjoying about "nature".

I've spent my entire professional life working within these industrial bureaucratic processes, trying to get inanimate objects to do unnatural things.

But, in nature: bees make honey, and maple trees make sap, and chickens lay eggs, and I don't have to force them or cajole them or follow up to make them do any of it.

K
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Old 06-26-2022, 08:15 AM   #27
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Re: Why, Chevrolet, just why?

I figure someone else makes the fobs and probably GM bids it out for each model. This is not how GM used to be. I am used to interchangeable when it comes to GM
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Old 06-26-2022, 08:16 AM   #28
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Re: Why, Chevrolet, just why?

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I figure someone else makes the fobs and probably GM bids it out for each model. This is not how GM used to be. I am used to interchangeable when it comes to GM
Yup.

K
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Old 06-26-2022, 08:55 AM   #29
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Re: Why, Chevrolet, just why?

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Originally Posted by Keith Seymore View Post
*That's one of the things I am enjoying about "nature".

I've spent my entire professional life working within these industrial bureaucratic processes, trying to get inanimate objects to do unnatural things.

But, in nature: bees make honey, and maple trees make sap, and chickens lay eggs, and I don't have to force them or cajole them or follow up to make them do any of it.

K
People have a habit of making things more complicated than they need to be. The solution will be right in front of us but we'll take the long way around to get there. Reminds me of this little thing:

A gentleman pointed East and asked if that was the way to California. I answered, "Yes, but you'll have to travel around the world to get there"
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Old 06-26-2022, 12:01 PM   #30
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Re: Why, Chevrolet, just why?

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Originally Posted by Keith Seymore View Post
Comments like the one I responded to make it sound like the individual release engineers are a bunch of wild ponies, racing unconstrained through the engineering building kicking up dust while doing whatever they want.
In fairness to myself (I was the unfortunate author of the post you cited), my post was intended as a tongue-in-cheek light-hearted attempt at humor -- not as something I believed to be factual.
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Old 06-26-2022, 12:15 PM   #31
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Re: Why, Chevrolet, just why?

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I was just commiserating, really. I know how frustrating it is to push the wrong button and have the opposite thing happen. if it helps the caddy remote just died (broken solder joint) so now I have to lock and unlock manually like a plebeian.
It is funny you say this

One day (At Home)
My Wife says: The Remote is not working, I cannot get in the vehicle

Real Quickly I responded: Why don't you use the key in your hand?.

She didn't find it as funny as I did.

Turned out it was a low battery.
I replaced the battery and all was good.
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Old 06-26-2022, 06:24 PM   #32
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Re: Why, Chevrolet, just why?

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In fairness to myself (I was the unfortunate author of the post you cited), my post was intended as a tongue-in-cheek light-hearted attempt at humor -- not as something I believed to be factual.
I know, I know.

I might be a bit touchy about that sort of thing. I didn't think you envisioned a bunch of horses kicking up dust in the halls of the engineering center.


K
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Old 06-26-2022, 06:28 PM   #33
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Re: Why, Chevrolet, just why?

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People have a habit of making things more complicated than they need to be.
Oh.

My.

Gosh.

I have to go to the Michigan Secretary of States office tomorrow to switch over a title.

I'm dreading it.

Wish me luck.

K
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Old 06-26-2022, 10:33 PM   #34
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Re: Why, Chevrolet, just why?

if you want to see engineers driving the bus, work AIRCRAFT. because the decision makers have never read a CFR and are always looking for an EXPERT to give EXPERT TESTIMONY on how a system should function. I think Keith will agree, this is not a power to give to 99% of engineers.

example: people want to plug in their laptop ~35w charger on a trip. marketing gives that spec to business unit, who gives it to product managers, who convene a meeting with engineers, who spec a 3000w pure sine wave 24vDC-110vAC inverter and miles of shielded wire with YEARS of certification testing and DAR/DER approvals because only the engineers have an understanding of what something takes to be certified. total development cost is in the MILLIONS, shipset price is in the hundreds of thousands. they took the 35w requirement and ADDED the ability to run a vacuum for ground crews because sometimes they dont have a powered service cart when you land on a dirt field in guatamala
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Old 06-27-2022, 09:27 AM   #35
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Re: Why, Chevrolet, just why?

I have always seen engineers as the equivalent of the Left versus Right in politics. They tend to need moderated by the people who actually use things in the real world.
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As for reading directions...
The directions are nothing but another man's opinion.
Learn from the mistakes of others, you won't live long enough to make them all yourself...

Bad planning on your part does not necessarily constitute an instant emergency on my part....

The great thing about being a pessimist is that you are either pleasantly surprised or right.
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Old 06-27-2022, 09:41 AM   #36
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Re: Why, Chevrolet, just why?

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I have always seen engineers as the equivalent of the Left versus Right in politics. They tend to need moderated by the people who actually use things in the real world.
Engineers who actually use things would therefore be the best of both worlds.

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Old 06-27-2022, 10:54 AM   #37
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Re: Why, Chevrolet, just why?

I remember arguing with an engineer for about an hour one time. Him insisting that what I said was happening couldn't possibly be the case. I finally had to show him that I was indeed right. His response "hmm well" and walks away. The company's solution buy a Porta power for my assembly area.
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Old 06-27-2022, 11:39 AM   #38
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Re: Why, Chevrolet, just why?

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I remember arguing with an engineer for about an hour one time. Him insisting that what I said was happening couldn't possibly be the case.
this is true for all new engineers, they tend to look at only what the formulas say, or what the 3D says will fit, and nothing about the real world.

i have a million stories about this and had even some typed out but aint nobody got time for that. haha
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Old 06-27-2022, 01:18 PM   #39
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Re: Why, Chevrolet, just why?

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this is true for all new engineers, they tend to look at only what the formulas say, or what the 3D says will fit, and nothing about the real world.

i have a million stories about this and had even some typed out but aint nobody got time for that. haha
Except in this example the engineer probably had 30 years in the field.
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Old 06-27-2022, 04:52 PM   #40
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Re: Why, Chevrolet, just why?

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Originally Posted by Keith Seymore View Post
Engineers who actually use things would therefore be the best of both worlds.

You realize that there is a name for that right? Unicorn, the mythical thing that seems fantastic, but no one has ever seen one, at least without dropping acid.
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As for reading directions...
The directions are nothing but another man's opinion.
Learn from the mistakes of others, you won't live long enough to make them all yourself...

Bad planning on your part does not necessarily constitute an instant emergency on my part....

The great thing about being a pessimist is that you are either pleasantly surprised or right.
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Old 06-27-2022, 05:50 PM   #41
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Re: Why, Chevrolet, just why?

I cussed engineers for years as a mechanic. Then I became an engineer. Just like I always complained about them, now I could sit at my desk and cackle like a maniac. Actually, I would say that all those years of looking at engineer's mistakes certainly led me to look for pitfalls and things that could make the tech's work easier, or at least less painful.
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Old 06-27-2022, 06:36 PM   #42
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Re: Why, Chevrolet, just why?

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Except in this example the engineer probably had 30 years in the field.
sorry my comment wasnt ONLY new guys do it, it was additive, your guy PLUS news guys do it.

its funny how much stock an engineer (or expert) will put in their arguments based on their perceived outcome, I have learned not to state something with absolute certainty unless I have done it. i guess its all the schooling that taught them to disagree and challenge, but some guys are absolutely and astoundingly belligerent.
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Old 06-27-2022, 06:49 PM   #43
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Re: Why, Chevrolet, just why?

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Now there's one thing that did get standardized, due to locking steering columns. Once that came about the ignition switches all went to right hand side of the column. But wait! Porsche has a great NEW idea. A way to show off their superior engineering, a locking column with key in remote location. And since it can be remote, why not over on the left hand side where no one else can?? Ingenious!!
Bentley still does it as well. Its from the Le Mans days when they had to run to the car, get in, start it and go. This way you can be turning the key while jumping in, saving exactly 1/4 second of time. These manufacturers are REALLY sentimental when it helps with marketing.
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Old 06-28-2022, 09:46 AM   #44
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Re: Why, Chevrolet, just why?

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You realize that there is a name for that right? Unicorn, the mythical thing that seems fantastic, but no one has ever seen one, at least without dropping acid.
Beats chasin a little white ball around.

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Old 06-28-2022, 11:53 AM   #45
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Re: Why, Chevrolet, just why?

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Naw - I'm actually quite serious.

Comments like the one I responded to make it sound like the individual release engineers are a bunch of wild ponies, racing unconstrained through the engineering building kicking up dust while doing whatever they want.

You have to imagine an environment that is the extreme opposite of that: a situation where there is so much red tape, so many contradictory constraints, so many layers of micromanagement, and so much "design by committee" that it is nearly impossible for young Poindexter to do his actual job.*

There is a "key fob" guy, but he would just be pushing paperwork to release an existing "black box" design from Supplier A as he is told by purchasing and the cross functional program management team (headed by the Vehicle Line Director - think of an "Ed Cole" type person). They are making the decision based on dollars and cents, or supplier relationship, or one of a hundred different non-technical considerations.

I would imagine the design release engineer even told them: "guys - you know if you do this you are going to have one set of buttons this way and one set going the other way" and the upper management either didn't understand the implications, didn't care, or ran roughshod over the engineer because they had already made up their mind.

K
I deal with this on a daily basis and can sadly relate- so many design reviews, competitive benchmarking, virtual serviceability reviews, dealer and customer advocate groups, program integration workshops, program management teams, etc etc it can make your head spin. Add in the current situation of supplier constraints and logistic nightmares then being ready to release a design only to find out supplier A is no longer in the supply base and need to switch to supplier B. When I stand back and look at the process from start to finish its amazing machines roll out the door sometimes.
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Old 06-28-2022, 12:45 PM   #46
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Re: Why, Chevrolet, just why?

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When I stand back and look at the process from start to finish its amazing machines roll out the door sometimes.
This.

So very much this.

K
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Old 06-28-2022, 10:02 PM   #47
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Re: Why, Chevrolet, just why?

We bought my wife a new GMC Denali. To shift, it has what looks like push buttons except they are pull tabs.

My son in law got in it to move it and couldn't get it to go.
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Old 06-28-2022, 10:11 PM   #48
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Re: Why, Chevrolet, just why?

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We bought my wife a new GMC Denali. To shift, it has what looks like push buttons except they are pull tabs.

My son in law got in it to move it and couldn't get it to go.
That's funny! I guess they needed to come out with something people who can drive a 3-on-the-tree can't drive.
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Old 06-29-2022, 07:46 AM   #49
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Re: Why, Chevrolet, just why?

Pull tabs. Totally new concept in theft deterrent.
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Old 06-29-2022, 08:27 AM   #50
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Re: Why, Chevrolet, just why?

Home construction engineering is generally simple. It's mostly done with same materials with known structural limitations asking them to do pretty much within the same demands. You can get to where you just know it and understand it. We do many jobs without engineers or architects. Not complete houses or any other work where building permits are required (well, mostly ). That is when we can clearly see what service the engineers and architects provide for us.

Just yesterday I go to a job I'm doing and am handed my task by the homeowner. The general job is finishing out her basement stairway while giving maximum additional storage. She gave me the objectives and I had to conceive and design how to meet those requirements. Just a little job, but not one I come walking in with my tools ready to start building... although I generally try to do just that.

This is an 1800s farmhouse and she needed more pantry space. I did her kitchen about five years ago and did all the maximizing we could there. She wanted to be able to store canned goods on the ceiling of the stairway plaster. There's plenty of headroom yet could be made to be within reach. Time to put on the thinking cap and come up with a simple and affective way to get to that objective, and of course not blow her budget. We can come up with a plan pretty quick, but we have to make sure we have considered every facet. So I end up getting paid to design

I gathered a variety of cans to determine sizing to build to fit. Had to consider the weight carried across between two bearing points. Had to consider the strength within the span. Place where they can be reached and have enough can exposed to grab one. Also, this is bearing on the trim at the ceiling already installed, which fortunately was not store-bought trim but trim I had made that is full 1x dimension and I had screwed it in rather than finish nails. It's width seemed just right for this project and I guess that's where she got the idea. BUT... after grabbing the variety of cans I discovered the trim was not quite wide enough, so a remedy was needed. The design ideas I came up with I'd run by her for input and I finally knew what I was going to build, with what material, and how I'd go about it. Sound like engineering at all?
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