More vapor canister stuff - Cut one open and observations.

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

I have three canisters, and cut the bad one (battery acid) open with a Dremel, for practice. That and to see what's inside. Edit, note it seems better to cut the canister at the bottom seam, not the can's top

First, I errored trying to cut it open in the area slightly below the seam just below the top. That's not where you want to be. You run the risk of cutting the foam element, air stubs or even the top inside the canister. To do it over again, I'd either:

Cut 5/16" below that seam to save the element.

Cut 3/8" below that seam, knowing the foam element may be damaged, but miss the air stubs.

Cut 1/4" below that seam, cutting into foam element. If you cut much deeper than you have to, then you may damage some air stubs.

Ever hear "if the charcoal doesn't move when you shake the canister then it's bad"? I call BS. More than likely it means it's leaking through the foam at the bottom. The one I cut open had no movement inside, but the charcoal looks like it had just been added. No discoloration, nothing. Just packed tight and hadn't started leaking yet. It should be noted, there was 100K on this canister. Additionally, I've got two beautiful canisters, and the charcoal is loose in each one. Go figure, both leak charcoal from the bottom through the foam. My recommendation is don't shake them, it's not going to help your cause.

There are three foam elements inside these canisters. Possibly polyurethane "filter foam". There are two on top, and the one bastard on the bottom. These are about 1/8" thick (See image below). I'm not aware of a substitute for this (anyone?), but you can make do. The bottom one obviously goes bad from the weight of the charcoal. Good read here: http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=174213

Speak of leaking, I located an interesting replacement part for the filter you can access underneath. It's much more rigid than the common filters, which are like fiberglass insulation. I think I'll choose the best of the two, seal the foam rubber where it's leaking, and just as a precaution, use the rigid filter to catch any charcoal that may leak in the future. This way I don't have to rebuild one, at least not right now.

[EARNHARDT#3]

All it looks like is a sort of coalescing filter.

[franken]

Now that one's apart maybe you could write up what's in there and we could find a similar size container and make one.
I recall seeing a pretty late model Nissan minivan with a very similar vapor canister...

[In The Ten Ring]

I cannot view the pic.

I have this same job coming up at some point in the fairly near future. Could you post a pic of how it hooks up to the valve cover?

I know there are drawings in the manuals but I'd prefer a pic. My dad unhooked mine sometime in the 70's, mistakenly believing to cost horsepower. SMH

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

Originally Posted by EARNHARDT#3

All it looks like is a sort of coalescing filter.

What's an example of bolded above?

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

Originally Posted by In The Ten Ring

I cannot view the pic.

I have this same job coming up at some point in the fairly near future. Could you post a pic of how it hooks up to the valve cover?

I know there are drawings in the manuals but I'd prefer a pic. My dad unhooked mine sometime in the 70's, mistakenly believing to cost horsepower. SMH

Go on Google and try looking at the image from there. There's not much more to see on top than what's pictured. Come to think of it, I didn't even notice any ports. Guess I need to open the box again............Fun.

Here's a link to the picture if it helps. This Google images is a pain in the ###.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/os...k=w472-h320-no

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

Originally Posted by franken

Now that one's apart maybe you could write up what's in there and we could find a similar size container and make one.
I recall seeing a pretty late model Nissan minivan with a very similar vapor canister...

The dimensions of the canister portion only are 5.75" tall (excludes valves) and 5" in diameter.

The correct ports for the 71-72 are CARB, PCV and FUEL TANK.

The stubs I was referring to (top inside) are simply hundreds of air passages in the mold. A better image of this is below. The crusty areas around some of the parameter is where I attempted to cut along the seam near the top. If you're unable to see the pictures and want to, send me a PM with your email.

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

Please let me know if you cannot see the two images in the posts above. Trying a new medium. Google Images is hit and miss. Thank you.

[Gromit]

I bought a replacement vapor canister filter (the one that goes into the bottom of the canister) for my 1970 C10 from a company whose initials start with "L" and end with a "C"

And what they sent me was perfectly fine and all - but looking at the new one I did belatedly realize that it appeared that I could have just gotten any Dacron or "3M Filtrete" fiberglass material from any HVAC type application and cut out a circle of the proper diameter - it would have been a lot cheaper..

Attached is a photo of the "Vent Filters" that Home Depot sells that I think are about equivalent to what I bought from L?C- it was too late for me as I'd already spend the money - so I'm not sure this exact Home Depot version is wide enough to cut a circle out of (to fit your canister diameter).. but you get the idea.. you may just need something fiberglass or Dacron for air filtration that keeps the activated charcoal out of the system..

But please consider this at your own risk - I am no expert - just telling you what I observed and it may very well be wrong wrong wrong!

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

You can locate a replacement for the external filter from all kinds of sources. Here's one example. http://www.rickscamaros.com/camaro-c...1970-1981.html

Is the L[]C version white? One of the filters I got is. It's more rigid than the fiberglass version.

I got one with the filter built into the part that pops onto the bottom of the canister. These have a drain (or breather tube). Basically like the one in this link but half the price. Mine is a replacement, NOS Standard. http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Vintage-...2NrZKQ&vxp=mtr

I've got one canister that has what I believe to be the original bottom. This doesn't contain the filter. Again, it just pops onto the bottom of the canister.

My original canister didn't have the bottom. Held up real well regardless. In fact, of the three it was the only one w/o a tear in the inner bottom filter element.

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

Cool decal (reproduction). Seems to confirm these canisters came with and without the "funnel cap". What's a "rocker cover tee", anyone?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Corvette-Eva...FUkH5q&vxp=mtr

[Gromit]

Quote:
"Is the L[]C version white? One of the filters I got is. It's more rigid than the fiberglass version."

*****************************************
Yes, the replacement vapor canister filter that I bought from the truck catalog for about $10 was a white disc about 1/8" thick and 5" in diameter - and if I had to guess I'd say it was Dacron material or a composite rather than fiberglass.

Home Depot has many different types of HVAC filters readily available and the part I got from the truck catalog looked as if it could have come from a basically similar type of material - except the Home Depot filter is at least 2" x 2" and I could have cut 16 discs out of each one of those for about $0.37 each

I believe the California 1970 C10 vapor canister had only two connections - just the recirc and vacuum - (no PCV or drain yet)

So yes, with the 1970 version the bottom filter disc just slides / stuffs into the recess under the vapor canister - my old one was very oily from oil vapor coming in from the engine compartment (its a 45 year old truck that was used regularly)

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

Originally Posted by Gromit

Quote:
"Is the L[]C version white? One of the filters I got is. It's more rigid than the fiberglass version."

*****************************************
Yes, the replacement vapor canister filter that I bought from the truck catalog for about $10 was a white disc about 1/8" thick and 5" in diameter - and if I had to guess I'd say it was Dacron material or a composite rather than fiberglass.

Home Depot has many different types of HVAC filters readily available and the part I got from the truck catalog looked as if it could have come from a basically similar type of material - except the Home Depot filter is at least 2" x 2" and I could have cut 16 discs out of each one of those for about $0.37 each

I believe the California 1970 C10 vapor canister had only two connections - just the recirc and vacuum - (no PCV or drain yet)

So yes, with the 1970 version the bottom filter disc just slides / stuffs into the recess under the vapor canister - my old one was very oily from oil vapor coming in from the engine compartment (its a 45 year old truck that was used regularly)

The white one I got (729150 Standard) is more like 1/4-3/8". Sounds like the same material however. I believe you're right about the 1970 canister. I can only speak for my 71 canister, that it didn't have the funnel cap. Doesn't mean it never had one, but I suspect it didn't.

[Rich72C10]

Well, I just bought another one of these canisters on our parts forum, so I decided to open up my original. After starting at the top (silly me), I switched to the bottom and got it opened up using the Vapor Canister Rebuild thread on the ifsja.com site.

The bottom has some fiberglass just like the Vapor Canister Rebuild but nothing else inside (see attached photo - what is what I see when I got the bottom opened). No top filter and the center does not come apart for a center filter. It is just a big open void.

I assume the charcoal has just all dissipated? And our units (or just mine) does have any other "filters" at the top?

It seems what I am finding in mine is quite different....

[Steeveedee]

I never heard of the charcoal dissipating. At some point in its life the charcoal must have been dumped out. The fuel vapors adsorb onto the surface of the granules and are then pulled away by engine vacuum. I stopped working as a mechanic (for a living, anyway) in '84, and never saw an empty canister. But then, they were at most 13 years old.

[Rich72C10]

I guess all the weird stuff happens to me... it’s never been opened and the bottom filter was intact!

I’ll open the one coming to me later next week. I already have charcoal and filter stuff coming to have in stock but a trip to Lowe’s may be in order too.

[Steeveedee]

Originally Posted by Rich72C10

I guess all the weird stuff happens to me... it’s never been opened and the bottom filter was intact!

I’ll open the one coming to me later next week. I already have charcoal and filter stuff coming to have in stock but a trip to Lowe’s may be in order too.

So let me ask, because I really don't know- you can buy replacement charcoal for these filters? If so, does that really mean that it "dissipates"? I'm not bagging on you, I just want to know. What does Lowes have to do with that charcoal? Or am I just a rube, and you're yanking my chain? :P

[Rich72C10]

Yes, please visit this other site's thread on the subject (from Post #1): http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=174213

But it isn't for the stuff disappearing but when the activated charcoal is no longer working, there is only so much fuel vapor it can absorb - just like so much it can absorb when cleaning out a fish tank.

Lowe's is not for the activated charcoal, I got that in a 3lb container via Amazon. I'm hoping I can find some filtering from there, like "3M Filtrete" fiberglass material" from post #9.

I am not going to rebuild this one in my previous post - one of the top ports are broken off. I'll do it with the one coming to me and if I cannot rebuild that one, I'll do the one I got off eBay last from a vett guy. Before I get to that one, I want to be REAL good at opening them up and understanding what is inside.

Hope that answers what you were asking?

[Steeveedee]

Originally Posted by Rich72C10

Yes, please visit this other site's thread on the subject (from Post #1): http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=174213

But it isn't for the stuff disappearing but when the activated charcoal is no longer working, there is only so much fuel vapor it can absorb - just like so much it can absorb when cleaning out a fish tank.

Lowe's is not for the activated charcoal, I got that in a 3lb container via Amazon. I'm hoping I can find some filtering from there, like "3M Filtrete" fiberglass material" from post #9.

I am not going to rebuild this one in my previous post - one of the top ports are broken off. I'll do it with the one coming to me and if I cannot rebuild that one, I'll do the one I got off eBay last from a vett guy. Before I get to that one, I want to be REAL good at opening them up and understanding what is inside.

Hope that answers what you were asking?

Yes, thank you!

[Andy4639]

I had my Ramp truck gas tank cleaned and put back in and the gas smell is bad now when ever it sits for a day are so. It doesn't have any other lines in it to use for venting.
So I may be adding a 71 sender to it to get a line to add this for the smell.

I got this out of the 71 service manual. Just for reference on where the parts are. I have never seen one laying down. The ones I have seen are standing up under the battery.

[Rich72C10]

Yep, that is what I have - straight up and down.

Andy, if you want an extra bracket let me know. I just bought a canister *and* bracket from a forum member. I just wanted the canister but he would not separate the bracket from the sale - just PM me. If this goes well, I might even end up with an extra canister after all of this. I have the "new" one from a eBay Vett guy that I have installed, the original one from my C10 and the one that is on way in USPS.

As for fitting it, you would have to change your tank to be able to vent and run that line to the canister. Then there are two vacuum lines - one to the carb (by the choke) and one either to the front of the carb or tie into PCV line (some Qjet 4bb carbs have a extra connection on the front and some don't).

[Andy4639]

Originally Posted by Rich72C10

Yep, that is what I have - straight up and down.

Andy, if you want an extra bracket let me know. I just bought a canister *and* bracket from a forum member. I just wanted the canister but he would not separate the bracket from the sale - just PM me. If this goes well, I might even end up with an extra canister after all of this. I have the "new" one from a eBay Vett guy that I have installed, the original one from my C10 and the one that is on way in USPS.

As for fitting it, you would have to change your tank to be able to vent and run that line to the canister. Then there are two vacuum lines - one to the carb (by the choke) and one either to the front of the carb or tie into PCV line (some Qjet 4bb carbs have a extra connection on the front and some don't).

Thanks. I ordered the 72 sender and going to try and find a canister tomorrow in a newer vehicle at the LKQ yard and run I hope anyway. I have a bracket and a old canister some where out of my 71. Man I took that crap out a long time ago though who knows where maybe. Hopefully I can find one tomorrow.

[Rich72C10]

sounds good Andy, good luck and if you need it just reach out!

I know even with the eBay Vett one I installed it has made a big difference in my garage.
There is still a bit of fuel smell but at least when we walk in the hallway where the home/garage door is at we don't feel like we are going to pass out LOL

[Andy4639]

Originally Posted by Rich72C10

sounds good Andy, good luck and if you need it just reach out!

I know even with the eBay Vett one I installed it has made a big difference in my garage.
There is still a bit of fuel smell but at least when we walk in the hallway where the home/garage door is at we don't feel like we are going to pass out LOL

I will, My garage is detached with my 71 C 10 and 64 SS Impala. It has never bothered me before with them inside. The 64 if full has a bit of smell but not much, the 71 has none since the tank was moved.

The ramp truck sit's outside all the time getting that great natural patina look. If the tank is full now it will knock you down if you open the door after a few days!
What I don't understand is it never smelled before the tank was took out cleaned and reinstalled with new sender. I put new neck rubber and sender rubber gaskets in it. The only thing changed is the old sender had the hard line all the way out under the cab. The new one has rubber hose which I used Fuel injection hose for it. I have checked it's not leaking any where in the cab at all but man the smell will knock you down if the tank is full.
Here is the thread on the tank.

https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/...d.php?t=810183

[Rich72C10]

perhaps its the neck or even a bad seal? I'd think the smell would be external, since I assume your cap vents. When brings up a point, you'll have to get a sealing cab when you end up having it vent from the tank (or I am pretty sure of that).