47-55.1 51 3100 shifter ideas besides column 4L65e

[R&B51]

I had posted a thread on firewall steering column penetration options earlier. You guys had lots of good ideas and observations. One thing I had forgotten about, if terminate column inside firewall and shaft goes through pillow block type swivel bearing, column shift would be out of the picture (they seem to all go through the calling tube, and the tab moves up and down in the engine compartment). I’m not totally done with idea of the column extending through the fire wall, just would be a lot neater for me if I could just take the shaft through.
This is a full Corvette, rolling chassis with custom frame. Transmission is in the back. Shifter selector on driver side of transmission is about 5 feet behind the middle of the cab floor. Probably have to use shift by cable.

Now to the question,
Do you guys have ideas or pictures on floor shift options or otherwise without creating a console? I have a nice flat floor with no driveshaft hump and was going to use a 60/40 style Chevy truck bench seat with 4 inches cut out of it just to the passenger side of the driver. Attached is one picture I stole off of a Kindigit car show on TV. I like the looks of it but the ones I’ve seen online are pretty short and I was trying to raise the seat up a little bit for longer legs. Top of the seat is about 18 inches off the floor.
Any ideas or pictures of things that I work for you?
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[leegreen]

You have a pretty high end build, is $1500 to buy one of the electric push button shifter modules from PCS or others out of the question?

For cheaper money but more work, late 50s to mid 60s dodges had dash mounted push button shifters that actuated a single cable back to trans....they are quite ingenious and worked fine. Older ones did not have Park.

2nd gen camaro console shifter is about as simple a mechanism as you could want, it would bolt flat to the floor and be easy to modify

Hurst promatic shifters have a plastic pedastal you could take off and mount the shifter on the floor, with a box around the cable connection under the floor to keep noise out


I'm not a big fan of the currently popular tall shifters than mimic a manual shifter. Or the ones like you pictured. I'd go column shift before those, if you are going to drive automatic might as well keep it convenient. I have a strong 3 pedal bias, no offence intended.

[fauXGT]

I wanted something that looked like a manual shift stick coming out of the floor having a 700R4, and found 'Gennie' shifters that is a bit different than 'Lokar' stuff.
Built a floor plate to fit around it. And have an old school accordion rubber boot to go around it.
The stock bench seat is going in.
With the trans that far back from the cab, a floor shifter with cable is going to be the only option, unless mechanical arms can be fabbed.
You could check with Gennie and Lokar to see what they offer for cable shifter options.

[mr48chev]

OK, do you want it to stay on the column or are you comfortable with a floor shift.

Now how advanced is your imagineering skill?

Meaning, you could fabricate a cable operated column shifter that had the works up behind the dash and routed the cable down and out where it wasn't too noticeable to the nit pickers.

Most of the little front wheel drive boxes with wheels have cable shifters to the transmission. A cable like this one for a 2002 Corolla. https://www.amazon.com/AUTOMATIC-TRA.../dp/B07L39LQRQ

Some of the newer American cars run a cable rather than rod from the column to the trans. For you it is moving the works up inside the cab where it doesn't show from the outside or from the inside for that matter. Plus a lot of imagineering.

That probably means going to pick a part and opening hoods on later model front wheel drive rigs that have column shifters and snooping. Then seeing if the " I can make that work" light comes on.

[R&B51]

leegreen,
Thanks for the leads, gave places to search and found some that’ll work:

B&M universal ~$450

https://fpautoparts.com/Performance/QuickSilver-Automatic-Shifter-Assembly-BM-80683

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Clayton type~$500 with adapters

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/clayton-machine-works-gated-floor-shifter/
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Push button type ~$1200

https://www.powertraincontrolsolutions.com/Performance_Aftermarket/Products/Electronic_Shifters/Push_Button_Shifter/All/hightolow/10/3/
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Lever type like in the bench seat slot pick in 1st post ~$700

https://www.holley.com/products/drivetrain/shifters_components_and_accessories/automatic_shifters/street_bandit/parts/80797
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And definitely no offense taken.
Car came auto and just kept all intact.
Speartech built a driveline harness that’ll drive the transmission computer-I hope!


fauXGT,
Good lead, looked up Genny and the home page had me at
“Made in America
All Gennie Shifter products are proudly made in the USA.”
Looks to be maybe &300 - $400
I’ll give em a call this week!
And i really like your tunnel and shifter fab skills.


mr48chev,
Yours and guys on site with experience is the “imagineering skill?” I need.
You got me thinking of a possible option to keep column termination inside firewall, maybe use Ididit custom shorter length with column shift and use a second fabbed bracket off floor (primary one under dash) THEN use your idea of cable through floor and back to tranny.
Super solid since support at dash, inner firewall clamp and steering shaft through pillow block

https://www.kartek.com/parts/firewall-mount-pivoting-steering-shaft-support-bearing-for-34-diameter-steering-shafts.html

Then on to steering box.
Thanks again, constantly learning from you guys.

So probably about a wash on cost except for PCS unit since Non-column shift Ididit saves ~$350 -400 to use toward shifter.
All the floor shifters would likely have to mount above floor in cab just under front of bench and slot bench as in picture above. So they all need cable through floor.

One thing I just thought of-planning to mount almost all electrical (engine and transmission computers, fuses, Bluetooth sound driver, etc under seat and slide out drawer forward from under bench.
Shifter on floor makes that more complicated but not impossible (2 drawer or slot, etc).

I’ll sleep on it.
Any more leads welcome!
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[mr48chev]

In the end it is what you are most comfortable with. A lot of guys like the floor shift for the old school look that even if the truck came with a column shift they want a flooor shift.

Some want a column shifter because they need a bench seat because they ride three up a lot of the time. A comfortable bench seat that your significiant other will sit in the middle of rather than way over there isn't bad at times either. my neighbor's wife would have a fit if he ever bought a truck with bucket seats. Those two have been married over 2o something years and it still looks like a two headed person driving down the road in their truck.

[dsraven]

some fellas use a column from an old chevy van, they look more period correct, and there are cable shifter kit options for them. the shifter part is outside the firewall though so it can get kinda ugly and personally I would rather use somwthing that doesn't need to be modified to work. there are lots of newer vehicles with cable operated shifters for console type scenario and they have the correct detents etc for the shift pattern. I guess it comes down to what you want the interior to look like and what you have for budget.

[dsraven]

just as a quick reference, I had this one in my pics from a wreck I parted out. 04 envoy console shifter. cable operated, cable goes through a grommetted hole in the floor under driver's feet on the donor. it has a whole bracket assembly on the donor to screw a console with a couple of cup holders and a rear arm rest compartment down to. it also has a hand brake assembly that would clear up a few issues all in one spot. it depends on what you want but there are cheap options at the wrecker or new aftermarket stuff as well.

[fauXGT]

I called Lokar looking for a specific position on the floor and shifter type. They didn't have anything. They were trying to sell me something else. Kept emailing me.
Internet searched and found Gennie. Called them and they were very helpful.
I like their shift type that uses gate style rather than that tacky push button.
To me Lokar screams expensively priced bolt on stuff, not custom made or stock looking.

Good luck.

Chip

[R&B51]

Wife and I - 44 years and still jump out to open car doors and all others, sit on same side booth restaurants, her hand in crook of my arm (always away from curb) so yeah, we’re definitely that 2 headed driver. Still have to figure out likely attempt at 3 point center belt for her (another thread).
Tried to figure out stock C6 shifter and is ECU and solenoid controlled. Probably won’t spend time to figure out another conversion but was tempting-reason I dug on what I have for awhile.
If go floor shift-definitely go Genny off American made and your experience.
Thanks again-your answers made me realize I better call Speartech to double check their engine and tranny Reflash plus harness-limit my shifter choices????
Will call them and Genny then maybe finally ready to make the choice
BUT
That honey on my hip holds sway on the choice!
Thanks guys-
I’m constantly finding out new things I didn’t know that I didn’t know
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[fauXGT]

As a kid, I remember riding next to my gramps in his 65 chevy 4x4 straight six.
He'd slap it into 3rd(or 4th....can't remember now), right next to my leg. Then a pause.....and then he'd yelp and slap my leg...just to get my attention.
The reason for the build is him. A tribute to the Mobil station and his '53 delivery.

I miss those days.

[dsraven]

it's your truck so make it like you want it. if you're gonna have a full sized passenger in the middle on the bench seat they likely wont wanna travel too far straddling the shifter. just sayin, try it yourself and see how comfy it is. if it's a bench with only 2 full size people then thats different. a flat floor is awesome, maybe take another look at a column shift option?

[youngrodder]

I went with a 23" double curved shifter from Lokar. ** The chrome shifter was used for mock up and it was not a double curve. I built a simple cover for the floor that I painted and body worked my interior color. I had my upholstery guy make me a shift boot out of some let over leather from my seats. I sourced the billet shift trim ring from a friends shop.

Lokar is not cheap but their product offer adjustability too so you don't have to cobble for your application. That is worth it in my book. I should mention that mine shifts with rod/linkage (no cable).

Works great.

Marc

[dsraven]

nice job youngrodder. rod linkage shouldn't be tood bad since the lever is right there, do you find it wiggles and vibrates at all? are there detetents on the set up?

[R&B51]

Yes, nice clean look. Also curious on shift feel. Any increased flex in detents due to longer shaft up that high?
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[mobileortho]

If you don't want to do any floor mods, a Lokar Case Mounted Shifter would be a good choice. But I must say that I like that push button you setup you shared...minus the price!

[youngrodder]

Originally Posted by dsraven

nice job youngrodder. rod linkage shouldn't be tood bad since the lever is right there, do you find it wiggles and vibrates at all? are there detetents on the set up?

No vibrations. It stays pretty much still. Now with that said, my truck does not posses any driveline/wheel vibration. Those would effect how much anything in the truck vibrates. Yes, there are detents and a flush button on top of the shifter to release the shifter. The threaded rod is very robust. There are small heim joints on the rod ends. Some slight tweaking/bending of the rod was necessary to clear the sides of the trans as it goes thru the shifting cycle.

Originally Posted by R&B51

Yes, nice clean look. Also curious on shift feel. Any increased flex in detents due to longer shaft up that high?
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It shifts very smooth. They designed it to work with this length (or even longer shifter) I'm very pleased overall on its form and function. It is funny how many people are confused about my lack of a clutch pedal when they look into my interior. Ha Ha

Marc

[dsraven]

sounds like a quality unit.
if you install a floor shift and you end up not liking it you can always swap it out with something else. it's only money, haha. you could resell and recoup some cash. meanwhile you are driving, not shopping. if you change your mind (or have it changed for you, lol) you can always swap in a column shift and resell the old stuff to help pay for it. meanwhile, you're driving it before hand. a bump in the floor isn't that hard to cover up.

[1project2many]

Is your column already selected? 2003-ish and newer Savanna / Express vans use shift cable from bottom of column to transmission. Shifters have 5 positions so would work well with O/D type transmission and would allow selection of D if towing. Earliest models had no airbag in the center of the wheel.

I love the push button shifter. I'm helping my son build an older Wrangler and we're switching to an electronically shifted transfer case to clean up the floor. This system will be raided from a 90s GM vehicle and consists of a control panel, a control module, and the transfer case with encoder motor. Depending on your creativity you may be able to adapt something from a newer vehicle for your own use. Here's an article focusing on shifters in newer vehicles: https://www.autoblog.com/article/automatic-shifters/

I like the idea of a rotary shifter although I think you would need to build in significant mechanical advantage in order to operate a cable from a small dial on the dash. Still, it could look cool matched up with round instruments and art-deco design features.

Here's another electronic aftermarket shifter:
https://www.jegs.com/i/Altronics/030...4L80E/10002/-1

Motorhomes with Allison transmissions use an electronic shifter. Is it something that could be adapted?

https://www.transmissioninstruments....tfolio/wtecii/

[leegreen]

a lot of transmissions are shifted electronically but most have a actuator designed to turn something in the transmission, hard to adapt. Allison appears to be the same. Transfer case and diff lock actuators are often linear but just move from one end to the other, and from what I have seen are dumb about running up against the ends, hard to get PRND321 stops.

it would not be hard to control a position sensing linear actuator with a small computer like arduino or raspberryPi and a motor controller. Probably 2-300 worth of parts and some time coding would give you an actuator that moved in the right increments based on pushing some buttons. A little less DIY: there are companies that sell kits that basically give you some push buttons you can program specific stop points to.
The reliability of such a system is all in the details, heat, moisture, corrosion, picking reliable components, oversized enough not to stall pulling the parking pawl out on a hill..... You could go down the rabbit hole for a while getting it to work really well.

I'd personally go column shift. If a clean firewall (as mentioned in another thread by OP) was needed I'd shorten column outer to bring shifter just above floor and connect a cable there that goes through the tunnel under carpet to get to trans.

[1project2many]

GM NP233 / 243 electronically shifted transfer cases use an externally mounted encoder which provides position feedback to a controller. User is able to select one of three positions with momentary contact switches. Unfortunately that's not enough.

07-11 Rangers also use an externally mounted shift encoder and a separate transfer case controller. Again, only three positions are available.

Using an E series GM transmission, detent position feedback could be obtained from sensors on the transmission itself. If one of the above motors could be made to provide enough degrees of rotation then a simple controller could be used. But most folks are not interested in building a controller. Still, the thread asked for ideas rather than solutions...

I thought I'd seen an external actuator for the Allison system. Unfortunately that's not the case so my bad.

Here's a pretty neat 4 speed shifter:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SLYbbmIrQs

[dsraven]

possibly modifying an old style column shifter, as LG says, would be easier, look period correct, keep a flat floor that is easier to place carpet over (if thats the plan), and keep the centre area of the floor clear for the ride a long. the detents would need to be re-made for the larger number of gears but I am sure some research would bring up fixes for that since a lot of old cars are running the same kind of driveline as we do with old trucks.
if a little more updated looking column would be ok you could try something from the mid '80's where they started using the 4 spd auto. maybe an astro van or something. the shifter tube could possibly be shortened to be above the floor, like LG suggests. the shift indicator isn't on the column though, if I remember correctly.

[R&B51]

Well, I appreciate all the responses. There sure is a lot of pretty good gear out there for hot rodders. Thanks for good advice. Talked for sometime with Ididit technical. Sure are good folks to deal with even before I bought this from them. I have one of their units in my 73 bronco with about 30,000 miles on it/restomod completion and still going strong. I think they’ve got my business. They advised me a way to get it done but so far off the usual way these are installed that they were skeptical of how easy it would be. I really like the floor shifter ideas but I’m pretty dead set on having a bench with 3 person seating, plus the slide out electrical component shelf under the seat.
Looks like short 16 inch universal tilt column shift from Ididit leaves enough room for shift tab, coupling to clear inner firewall bearing. I will use a wide fabricated tube clamp to attach to the notch I have in the dash Between the 2 gauge holes. I will clock the shifter tab on the end of the column where it works upward instead of downward. Talked with some professional transmission, cable manufacturers, and they can make one that goes straight up under the dash from there curls around and goes down the inside of the firewall to penetrate, then go on back under the cab to the 4L65 a transmission in the back. It helps that it is one of the four-speed models. Pillow block type firewall bearing will help really stabilize the assembly at the firewall. Planning to measure in wooden dowels, then order them round with flats to DD on the ends. That will avoid having a gap going through the bearing on the firewall. Maybe 2U joints because it’s a pretty straight shot and a flexible joint to absorb vibration as I get to the steering box. Plenty of room between frame and headers.
If it works, and I get it all done, I’ll try to remember to come back and let you all know.
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[dsraven]

sounds like a plan. glad to hear you went column because it sounded like you wanted a bench with an acutal rider next to you a lot. a shifter on the floor isn't that comfy for the middle person since stretching their legs is awkward.
if using a rag joint style flexible coupling just remember they don't take well to much of an angle change. they are more like just a vibration absorber. a shaft support near that would be a good idea if there is much angle change and then check the joint frequently for wear. just this month I have heard of one (brother in law's rented vehicle) and seen another(being loaded on a dech truck) where the joint failed. both were low speed but it could have been disaster
remember to take pics as you go and post them up for others to see. it could be a game changer for a lot of guys who want a column but also want a clean look under the hood.

[R&B51]

I had not really thought about any kind of vibration dampening until the Ididit tech brought it up. Looking into it a little, I guess there are three options:
No dampener at all just U joints and hook it up
A rag joint with a pretty straight shot into the power steering pump
A universal dampener joint like this

https://www.borgeson.com/Steel-3-4DD-X-3-4DD.html

Looking at discussions on it, no dampening at all - sometimes you get some vibration coming up through there. Rag joint is old-school and effective, maybe less polished looking- but can fail, third option don’t see many reviews on it, but seems failproof (if anything can be called that)??

Any experience from you guys on these three options?
It turns out that because I’m using the shorter column inside the cab, I can exit firewall pretty much to create almost a completely straight shot to the power steering pump. Just a little bit of an angle when it reaches the pump that a U joint would accommodate. maybe a total of 30 inches or so all the way down and probably put a heim joint type support as it slips by the frame.
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