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Old 08-15-2022, 09:57 PM   #1
Phungki
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Drive shaft woes

So after switching to a rearend out of a 76 trans am and putting in a sbc with a 700r4, I need a 61” driveshaft. Im sure this set up is fairly common since this forum is where I get most of my ideas.
Is there a driveshaft out there that I can get from a junk yard to fit the bill or am I going to need to have one made up?
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Old 08-16-2022, 12:39 AM   #2
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Re: Drive shaft woes

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=632988

top of the list!
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Old 08-16-2022, 02:39 AM   #3
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Re: Drive shaft woes

A 61 short box driveshaft is going to be pretty hard to find in it's self.

The trans Am uses a Moog 534G or a better grade version of that U Joint at the rear.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...sal+joint,2392

There are a bunch of yokes that fit fit the 700R4 and have different U joints.

Most 61 Chevy C-10 use the smaller 369 series U joint that fits most Chevys from 55 to mid 60;s There is also going to be a difference between the driveshafts for 3 speed and powerglide and the 4 speed. https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...sal+joint,2392

A 90 Caprice with a 700 R 4 takes the same 534G base U joint that the Trans Am does. That should keep you to the same size U joint on both ends without a hassle.
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Old 08-16-2022, 11:33 AM   #4
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Re: Drive shaft woes

any driveshaft guy can shorten your stock shaft, i found a local guy who did nothing but cv and drive shafts. anyone with a lathe can do it to, big enough to put the drive shaft thru the headstock. lathe is needed to cut off the old weld, shorten the shaft and then to locate the knuckle straight.
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Old 08-16-2022, 05:24 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Ogre View Post
any driveshaft guy can shorten your stock shaft, i found a local guy who did nothing but cv and drive shafts. anyone with a lathe can do it to, big enough to put the drive shaft thru the headstock. lathe is needed to cut off the old weld, shorten the shaft and then to locate the knuckle straight.
If only mine came with one 😁. Mine was a half assembled pile of junk sitting in a field for 20 years kind of truck.
Im getting close to having it move under its own power tho. Drive shaft, gas tank and shifter and she’ll go.

I have been searching around for longer than 61” to have cut down as well.
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Old 08-16-2022, 07:03 PM   #6
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Re: Drive shaft woes

if you want one to shorten get a 98+ long bed reg cab s10 driveshaft, it will be 4" aluminum. i think its 67".


Quote:
Originally Posted by _Ogre View Post
any driveshaft guy can shorten your stock shaft, i found a local guy who did nothing but cv and drive shafts. anyone with a lathe can do it to, big enough to put the drive shaft thru the headstock. lathe is needed to cut off the old weld, shorten the shaft and then to locate the knuckle straight.
i use inland truck parts (ITP) they charge about 125 to shorten (measure twice! they will charge you 125 a second time gleefully if it doesnt fit) and call my little driveshafts "toothpicks" because they are a national semi truck chain. if you dont have an ITP near you any semi shop should be the same.

which brings up an interesting point, measure center of joint to center of joint for length, that is the numbers everyone online will post.
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Old 08-17-2022, 11:38 AM   #7
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Re: Drive shaft woes

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Originally Posted by joedoh View Post
which brings up an interesting point, measure center of joint to center of joint for length, that is the numbers everyone online will post.
my guy asked me to stick the yoke all the way in the trans to measure c-c of the U-joints. he deducted 3/4" for final length
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Old 08-17-2022, 12:34 PM   #8
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if you want one to shorten get a 98+ long bed reg cab s10 driveshaft, it will be 4" aluminum. i think its 67".

I should be able to find that. When I call looking for anything much older than ‘98, they just laugh. Do you know if I will have any issues getting it to match up to my rearend and trans?


i use inland truck parts (ITP) they charge about 125 to shorten (measure twice! they will charge you 125 a second time gleefully if it doesnt fit) and call my little driveshafts "toothpicks" because they are a national semi truck chain. if you dont have an ITP near you any semi shop should be the same.

which brings up an interesting point, measure center of joint to center of joint for length, that is the numbers everyone online will post.
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Old 08-17-2022, 12:37 PM   #9
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Re: Drive shaft woes

The more fun way. measure with no load in bed.
The put a tarp in bed fill it up with water till it the truck is on the axle stops.
Let the kids swim in it. Measure again.
Then dump the gate and water the lawn.


Then tell your guy both numbers.
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Old 08-17-2022, 01:19 PM   #10
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Re: Drive shaft woes

Getting down to the brass rivets.
One: You need a drive shaft that is 61 inches or that you can get 61 inches out of.

Two: it is best if that driveshaft has the correct U joints in it so you don't have to play the combination joint thing. Yes they work and make things simple but the cost is double or more than a high quality regular U joint and at times they might be hard to find especially on a road trip. Follow the concept of Wear parts= Keep it simple.

Your list is probably going to be the one that has vehicles with a 700R4 that use the 534G style U joint. I don't have the Spicer number handy.

You also want a driveshaft that has a single U joint on each end and doesn't have a double caridin joint on either end.

I can't find a chart and am finding that a lot of the newer hopefully easier to find drive shafts are now aluminum.
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Old 08-17-2022, 03:15 PM   #11
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Re: Drive shaft woes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phungki View Post
will it fit my trans and rearend

sorry i paraphrased because your quote was inside a quote.

it will fit your trans and should fit your rear.
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Old 08-18-2022, 12:53 AM   #12
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Re: Drive shaft woes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phungki View Post
will it fit my trans and rearend

Sometines you have to learn to hedge your bets a bit by doing a bit of searching to find answers. The same searching that I, Joedoe and Dsraven often do to give a proper answer to your questions or more important to verify what we already know or belive we know so we know it is accurate info.

Some of that searching can or will be =

What transmissions use the same front yoke as the Turbo 400.

What vehicles use the same rear U joint as the 76 Trans Am.

For that we either Check Rock auto or the O'Reilly pages for a part and then check compatability.
First we go over to the Rock Auto page for 2000 S-10 truckks then we click on drive train and then on U joint, from there we scroll down and look right there it says that a Moog 534G Ujoint is the correct one. It also gives several other brands and numbers and down the page it shows a Spicer number. All the same unit but some have better quality than others. As long as when you take a cap off and look at the needles in the cap it has long skinny needles rather than short fat needles life is good = short and fat equal cheap Ujoint that will wear out faster.
https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...sal+joint,2392

The S-1o extended cab driveshaft should be pretty easy to find, what may not be easy to find is a drive shaft shop that can weld aluminum. That takes research on your part by asking driveshaft shops in your area and in this case that means a 150 mile radius if they can shorten an aluminum driveshaft . If the answer is yes you hunt down one that does not have any dents, dings or scrapes on it. It is paramont that the driveshaft is smooth and straight with no dings or scrapes or marks.
A bit of searching shows that the yoke for a 4L60E in a two wheel drive 2000 extended cab S-1- should be the same as the yoke for the Turbo 400. Yokes are 100 bucks each new now so that helps the kitty. Per a real old Hamb thread https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...issues.390834/
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My ongoing truck projects:
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71 GMC 2500 that is getting a Cad 500 transplant.
77 C 30 dualie, 454, 4 speed with a 10 foot flatbed and hoist. It does the heavy work and hauls the projects around.

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Old 08-20-2022, 11:08 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr48chev View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phungki View Post
will it fit my trans and rearend

Sometines you have to learn to hedge your bets a bit by doing a bit of searching to find answers. The same searching that I, Joedoe and Dsraven often do to give a proper answer to your questions or more important to verify what we already know or belive we know so we know it is accurate info.

Some of that searching can or will be =

What transmissions use the same front yoke as the Turbo 400.

What vehicles use the same rear U joint as the 76 Trans Am.

For that we either Check Rock auto or the O'Reilly pages for a part and then check compatability.
First we go over to the Rock Auto page for 2000 S-10 truckks then we click on drive train and then on U joint, from there we scroll down and look right there it says that a Moog 534G Ujoint is the correct one. It also gives several other brands and numbers and down the page it shows a Spicer number. All the same unit but some have better quality than others. As long as when you take a cap off and look at the needles in the cap it has long skinny needles rather than short fat needles life is good = short and fat equal cheap Ujoint that will wear out faster.
https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...sal+joint,2392

The S-1o extended cab driveshaft should be pretty easy to find, what may not be easy to find is a drive shaft shop that can weld aluminum. That takes research on your part by asking driveshaft shops in your area and in this case that means a 150 mile radius if they can shorten an aluminum driveshaft . If the answer is yes you hunt down one that does not have any dents, dings or scrapes on it. It is paramont that the driveshaft is smooth and straight with no dings or scrapes or marks.
A bit of searching shows that the yoke for a 4L60E in a two wheel drive 2000 extended cab S-1- should be the same as the yoke for the Turbo 400. Yokes are 100 bucks each new now so that helps the kitty. Per a real old Hamb thread https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...issues.390834/
I do and have done alot of research since I started this a few years ago. I started reading posts on here before I even bought my truck. I started from the very first post. I ask questions on here only hoping ppl will answer it if they know it. I do not expect, nor do I want anyone to search out the answers.
I appreciate those of you who have answered my questions
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Old 08-21-2022, 03:12 AM   #14
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Re: Drive shaft woes

Simply put, every time I post an answer to one of you questions I have to search out the answer even if I firmly believe I know the answer. I do the same search that you could do but do it because curisoity gets the best of me and I like to research things so I can learn.

That research includes finding the info that tells what Ujoint your Firebird rear axle has.
Figuring out what certain models that have a long enough drive shaft also have the correct U joints.

Yes you could use a driveshaft that used different u joints and the use combination joints on each end to connect to a yoke and the rear axle but along with figuring out the combination joint that is an extra 15 to 20 bucks each for U joints. Worse than that is as I said, they can some times be hard to find when you need one in a hurry especially if you are on "that" long road trip to a special event. It's a lot easier to walk into a parts house in Podunk and ask for a U joint that fits that 76 trans am that is a very common GM U joint than find one that is that size on one side an another size on the other side.

I am trying to do a bit of teaching and coaching attempting to get you to expand your search for info beyond this group and show you some of the sorces for info and how to use them. You can usually find a part number on Rock Auto that you can walk into a local parts house to get a part and not have to pay shipping. O'Reilly's has upped their game times over going from a place that had so much non automotive junk in the store that you couldn't get to the parts counter to a legit parts house that seriousy services commercial accounts.

The thing I am going to do is continue to give as solid and as accurate answers to questions as I can provide. That may include writing out a set of detailed step by step instructions if need be. I'm also going to continue to teach those who are teachable and coach those who are coachable .
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My ongoing truck projects:
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Old 08-25-2022, 08:43 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joedoh View Post
sorry i paraphrased because your quote was inside a quote.

it will fit your trans and should fit your rear.
Thank you
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Old 08-25-2022, 04:25 PM   #16
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Re: Drive shaft woes

The challenge with recommending a source for an OEM driveshaft is the number of options available. For example, American Axle has an incredibly detailed tech library for driveshafts they produced for OEM:

https://www.demandaam.com/technical-...l-of-materials

GM part number 23251121 from 2014+ light trucks is listed as 60.91" from U joint center to center. Following part number 23251121 down the rabbit hole we find it is specifically used in the following models:

2018 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 Custom, LS, LT, WT 4.3L V6 - Flex
2018 GMC Sierra 1500 Base, SLE 4.3L V6 - Flex
2017 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 Custom, LS, LT, WT 4.3L V6 - Flex
2017 GMC Sierra 1500 Base, SLE 4.3L V6 - Flex
2016 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 Custom, LS, LT, WT 4.3L V6 - Flex
2016 GMC Sierra 1500 Base, SLE 4.3L V6 - Flex
2015 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 LS, LT, WT 4.3L V6 - Flex
2015 GMC Sierra 1500 Base, SLE 4.3L V6 - Flex
2014 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 LT, WT 4.3L V6 - Flex
2014 GMC Sierra 1500 Base, SLE 4.3L V6 - Flex


It's an aluminum driveshaft and uses a 1355 U-joint which (I believe) is unique to AAM driveshafts. Dimensions at the U-joint are 1.188" cap diameter and 3.612" across the cap. There are crossover U-joints but there are not many options. Moog 447 is listed as a crossover with one side measuring 1.188" X 3.625" and the other spec'ed at 1.125" X 2.560" which is a common GM size that typically uses a Moog 534-G in a stock application. This joint *should* fit a stock rear yoke for most '76 F cars. As to whether or not it will fit your front yoke, I cannot say.

Maybe there's another part in the AAM list that does not require crossover U-joints?
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Old 08-25-2022, 04:39 PM   #17
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Re: Drive shaft woes

Lets try to keep him from having to use combination (cross over) joints if at all possible.

I don't want to add to the confusion but think I have a Ford driveshaft in my 48 because it had the correct U joints to match the full syncro 3 speed's yoke and the mid 70's Nova rear axle. That was after years of fighting wih combination joints.
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77 C 30 dualie, 454, 4 speed with a 10 foot flatbed and hoist. It does the heavy work and hauls the projects around.
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Old 08-25-2022, 05:00 PM   #18
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Re: Drive shaft woes

One out of an 88 C1500 two wheel drive standard cab automatic truck should fit with a couple inches cut off one end if you want to hunt for a used driveshaft that you can cut down.
Steel shaft so there isn't a hassle of having it cut own and 63 inches long as far as the driveshaft goes. https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c...ckup-rwd?pos=2

That is provided that the one you find has the correct U joints. This one should have the correct ones.
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My ongoing truck projects:
48 Chev 3100 that will run a 292 Six.
71 GMC 2500 that is getting a Cad 500 transplant.
77 C 30 dualie, 454, 4 speed with a 10 foot flatbed and hoist. It does the heavy work and hauls the projects around.
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Old 08-25-2022, 10:29 PM   #19
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Re: Drive shaft woes

i just went on rock auto and the 76 firebird uses a 534G u joint. the s10 driveshaft I recommended will fit the splines of a 700R4 and the rear u joint is a 534G.

so a bit late but that 4" aluminum driveshaft from a 98+ s10 longbed will fit your trans and your rearend.
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Old 08-26-2022, 03:23 PM   #20
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Re: Drive shaft woes

Quote:
Lets try to keep him from having to use combination (cross over) joints if at all possible.
Bear with me. OP's posted location is within spitting distance of the great lakes. Based on the local climate plus GM saying that Michigan is a "High Corrosion" state like everything in the northeast, I'm more inclined expect that OP's area is much like where I am. Around here '76 and '86 vehicles are pretty much gone. Most '96 vehicles are pretty rusty if you can find them. And the wrecking yards that are staying open are buying late model wrecks at insurance auctions in order to have saleable inventory. In most yards the old stuff is crushed pretty quickly. In fact the OP actually said
Quote:
When I call looking for anything much older than ‘98, they just laugh.
The U-joints I listed are available at three different stores in this area. That may be a regional thing but at least they're not unobtanium. And they're not stupid $$ so a guy can carry one if he thinks he'll have an issue.


I actually tried looking for a used driveshaft for an '88 C1500 just to see how common they might be. Car-part-com shows 18 different options! Trans type, wheelbase, 1pc vs 2 pc, driveshaft diameter / final drive ratio... Without more infor you're gonna have to call the yards and beg a guy to get a length measurement after they say they might have something. The page in your link isn't available to me. Internal server error... so I can't use it to get more info. Do you happen to have the Dorman number handy for that new one?

I think its best to assume the OP could use all the info we can provide. I don't think it's right to make choices for him / her. Is it fair for me to say you don't want orange juice because I have an allergy?

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Old 08-26-2022, 09:39 PM   #21
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Re: Drive shaft woes

I'm beginning to beieve that it is probably more prudent to figure out which driveshaft shop within a hundred miles is the go to hot rod custom rig shop and load the truck up and haul it to them and have it done.

By the time you buy a later model driveshaft with the correct size ujoints on it and then pay the same shop to shorten it and install new Ujoints you are going to quite a bit in it anyhow.

I still stick with not using a combination joint if you don't have to. Double the cost for one thing and even though you can easily find them in a lot of places you might not be able to out in the middle of nowhere on a bucket list trip to that event you always wanted to drive the truck to.
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My ongoing truck projects:
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71 GMC 2500 that is getting a Cad 500 transplant.
77 C 30 dualie, 454, 4 speed with a 10 foot flatbed and hoist. It does the heavy work and hauls the projects around.
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Old 08-27-2022, 11:04 AM   #22
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Re: Drive shaft woes

actually Phungki is within 15 minutes of one of the biggest auto recyclers in the area with lots of old stuff. lucas auto parts should have a driveshaft for him or at least one to shorten. i see it driving down US23 all the time
he's also 10 min from ididit, theres probably a shaft shop in Tecumseh
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Old 09-06-2022, 10:39 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by _Ogre View Post
actually Phungki is within 15 minutes of one of the biggest auto recyclers in the area with lots of old stuff. lucas auto parts should have a driveshaft for him or at least one to shorten. i see it driving down US23 all the time
he's also 10 min from ididit, theres probably a shaft shop in Tecumseh
Lucas won’t let you look around. You tell them what you want, they say “wait here” and come back in 10 minutes and say “nope, got nothing” So Yeah I went there (not impressed), Nagys and Dundee truck and trim. Both of those places at least pointed to a pile of shafts and said to take a look. Everything is too short or 2 piece. The only one I found to shorten wouldn’t work because of the shape of it snd the amount it needed shortened.I contacted Lays transmission in Toledo. Got quoted $400 to $500 to build me a driveshaft.
I was browsing ebay and bingo. Come to find out an el camino from the 80s has a 61 3/8” driveshaft. $200 and 4 days later it was here. Needs new u joints but it came with the correct yoke. Bolts right up.
Another hurdle done. Floor shifter and she is moving on her own.

Thank you for all the replies. It is much appreciated
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Old 09-07-2022, 03:16 PM   #24
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Re: Drive shaft woes

Cool ��
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