Diesel vs gas cost per mile.

[Ziegelsteinfaust]

I am in a routine disagreement with my friend. He's a big diesel guy, and well I am not.

He says I could have a better all a round C10 if I got a small diesel engine for it like one of the Isuzu 4 cylinders. Or if a kit was available to swap a Duramax 2.8 would be best.

Myself I am thinking the LV3 4.3 engine would be awesome. It got 26 highway in a my 2018 crewcab, and I feel 30 may not be out of the question in a smaller C10. Especially if it's lowered, lighter weight 15" rims with street tires, and dialed in gearing.

Either should be able to tow a C10's maximum limit, and beat a stock 350 in nearly all metrics.

Let's keep this to 2wd C10 street trucks.

Is there an advantage to diesel that I don't see? Besides loaded towing especially when you get to the 1 ton level. They just work, but in the 1/2 market. They don't seem to do anything that much better. Especially when diesel price difference is factored in. At best it seems to be a wash.

I almost got another C10, and thought I would make it my mpg vehicle. Which restarted the discussion. So I am 1/2 way looking for a cheap project truck to try again. So I can replace my Durango with something I like better, and more importantly fix myself.

[kwmech]

I personally don't agree with the diesel fad. "If its a truck it's got to be a diesel attitude". The new diesels are having issues and cost more in maintenance. 12 quart oil changes. Heavy duty lift pumps, extra money for the fuel, don't forget the urine tank. If it is just a cruiser I don't see any issues at all with the Lv3 swap. Should really make the C10 scoot.

My son-in law had to have a duramax. In the past 3 years I think he's put an additional 5-6 grand in it to keep it running. Just as I mentioned with the lift pump issue, blown hoses, oil cooler hoses leaking, all kinds of crap. I don't think a 6.0 Ls would have given him this many issues

[whitedog76]

Yes, I'm with you on this one. I don't see the advantage. #1, diesel is more expensive, #2 most require DEF, again more expense, #3, the increased maintenance cost. Have you looked under the hood of a modern diesel powered truck? Our bucket truck at work, you can't even see the ground with the hood open, it's packed so full of everything.

Back in the 80's and early 90's, Diesel Ford Rangers, Non-Powerstroke F250's and 6.2 powered Chevy trucks were popular with farmers around here. Primarily because they only needed 1 diesel tank on the farm. I get it.

As far as the fad of diesel everything, I'll pass.

Now, I grew up helping my dad in his shop. He spent a career working on New Holland and White tractors. I love the smell of diesel. I know that may be strange. I owned a K10 with a 6.2 at one time, I loved that truck. It was the best driving square body I've ever been in. As far as a modern diesel truck, I don't see the point, unless you need to tow a 15,000 lb trailer.

[Dead Parrot]

For a daily driver cruiser, don't really see the advantage. Diesel's advantages show up when the motor is ran at at high percent of rated HP for long periods of time. Unless you are planning on frequent heavy load towing, go with gas. Plus you don't have to wonder if this station has diesel.

[Tom]

Either one will probably take 10-15yrs of daily driving to recoup the money in gas savings vs what the motor and swap costs to do.

[Ziegelsteinfaust]

Originally Posted by Tom

Either one will probably take 10-15yrs of daily driving to recoup the money in gas savings vs what the motor and swap costs to do.

It would be to replace a dead motor. So cost while a consideration would be cut significantly. Plus with the LV3 I purposed. The drivibility would be worth alot too.

The concept was based on a truck I was supposed to trade for, but fell through. Plus for the cost or about 12K dollars for the project. I would get alot better mpg for going on road trips. Approaching what a sedan can get. In a vehicle I would much rather own.

[Ziegelsteinfaust]

Originally Posted by Dead Parrot

For a daily driver cruiser, don't really see the advantage. Diesel's advantages show up when the motor is ran at at high percent of rated HP for long periods of time. Unless you are planning on frequent heavy load towing, go with gas. Plus you don't have to wonder if this station has diesel.

I would seriously consider going diesel if I had a crew cab dually, even with diesel being about a dollar more per gallon.

[Ziegelsteinfaust]

Originally Posted by kwmech

I personally don't agree with the diesel fad. "If its a truck it's got to be a diesel attitude". The new diesels are having issues and cost more in maintenance. 12 quart oil changes. Heavy duty lift pumps, extra money for the fuel, don't forget the urine tank. If it is just a cruiser I don't see any issues at all with the Lv3 swap. Should really make the C10 scoot.

My son-in law had to have a duramax. In the past 3 years I think he's put an additional 5-6 grand in it to keep it running. Just as I mentioned with the lift pump issue, blown hoses, oil cooler hoses leaking, all kinds of crap. I don't think a 6.0 Ls would have given him this many issues

My thoughts are the engine is fine, but the smog system is what kills the deal. So if I could do it. It would be a non smog option for me.

[mrtoni]

In 2003 my wife wanted a new Vw Jetta. Base gas motor was 16k diesel motor was $3000 more. 36 mpg vs 49. Diesel was like 2 bucks a gallon and gas was like 30 cents more. It would take 5 years to recoup the higher cost motor. After i pulled the trigger the price of diesel went higher than gas

[kwmech]

Originally Posted by Ziegelsteinfaust

My thoughts are the engine is fine, but the smog system is what kills the deal. So if I could do it. It would be a non smog option for me.

So the C10 we're talking about is 76 and newer?

Even with a crew cab dually I'd be considering a big cube Ls. Who really needs to tow a trailer up the hill at 85mph.

[Ziegelsteinfaust]

Originally Posted by kwmech

So the C10 we're talking about is 76 and newer?

Even with a crew cab dually I'd be considering a big cube Ls. Who really needs to tow a trailer up the hill at 85mph.

It's a 73 truck. So I can do pretty much what I want.

[kwmech]

Nice...gotta luv the pre 75s

[Ziegelsteinfaust]

Originally Posted by kwmech

Nice...gotta luv the pre 75s

I probably won't buy anything newer then 1975 for me again. Since I took a big hit pay wise when my knees gave out for my service job. Plus I am tired of paying money for something I really don't like. Then being bound to a service shop for so many things because the car is to tight to work on easily for a home guy.

My 2018 CC Silverado 1500 was pocket change with the hours I worked compared to what I make now. The one thing that bugged me the most about it, and something there was no way for me to effectively fix. Was it was so big, and tall. I am 5'9", and felt like a 10 year old next to daddy's pick up. My C10 is easier to load, reach in the bed, and slide into the seat. That I just love it. I am at a 1/4 drop, and plan to go to a 2.5/5 drop for ultimate comfort. I can sit on the tail gate with my feet touching the ground, and not having to jump.

Which also why I want to ditch the Durango because it's to small to work on for me. Plus with it being a 4x4 it gets worse. Plus mpg sucks as much as my C10 with 450++ hp, and 4.88 gears. It just starts up easily, and has AC.

So if I got another pre-smog C10. I could use a LS 4.8 for easy mpg, a built LT1 350 for a little harder to work mpg "my favorite here", or a LV3 for expensive mpg but it would work very well. Plus the LV3 offers the highest mpg with the greatest potential mpg. Since my Silverado did so great. How could it not just get better in a smaller lighter C10. Or maybe get a 50's sedan instead. Just need to finish a few things then I will pull the trigger on a proper vehicle to replace the Durango. All in due time.

[b454rat]

I looked at a new Chevy Colorado with the V-6. Can't remember what size it was but 3.something liter. I also looked at the diesel Colorado. But after seeing the price tag that went away quick. But the diesel didn't get maybe 1-2 miles better than the gas. I was looking for fuel mileage for new job, 45 minutes one way. I've never built or owned a diesel truck, but no way I'd get a new one. If anything, a 12 valve or maybe even a 4BT. I don't need a pulling truck, I have 2 CCSB's both with 454s. IMO, would have to get the donor motor cheap enough to offset the cost....

[cadillac_al]

Diesels used to be stone reliable, nowadays a diesel can leave you stranded with PCM and sensor problems that only the factory can diagnose.

[Bigdav160]

I have two daily driver pickups both Cummins powered (no def).

I estimate 20% better fuel economy compared to an equivalent gas version. So long as fuel is within 20% in price it's a wash.

I think the "maintenance cost" is a red herring. The dollars don't add up to much. And the initial cost of the diesel is almost always gained back at resale.

I wouldn't trade mine for gas

[dagnabbitt]

For years I believed that you couldn't get good mileage in an old truck, and that such was the price for enjoying them. An LS swap has always been outside of my time, budget, and skills.

Then I found a 1972 GMC that someone put a 6.2L diesel with a 700r4 in. It is my daily driver to and from work, I drive it probably 60 miles a day and I get about 50% more fuel economy driving it than the 350/350s I have. I know that sounds like it must be an exaggeration: but I drive it differently, too. Slow and steady like a freight train.

People who are accustomed to modern diesels think of turbos and torque, but the 6.2 was mostly designed as a fuel economy engine from the start, so it is just doing what it was designed to do. I fill up so infrequently that the current price difference between diesel and gas, while annoying, isn't a big deal.

[mattfranklin]

For many years, fleet owners have done the calculations and opted to not get diesel pickup trucks. For the many of reasons you mentioned.

Class 8 semis are a different story. The economics on those make sense.

Everyone is free to do what they like. If it's the noise and the attitude and the rolling coal, that's up to you. But you're paying extra for that fun.

Originally Posted by kwmech

I personally don't agree with the diesel fad. "If its a truck it's got to be a diesel attitude". The new diesels are having issues and cost more in maintenance. 12 quart oil changes. Heavy duty lift pumps, extra money for the fuel, don't forget the urine tank. If it is just a cruiser I don't see any issues at all with the Lv3 swap. Should really make the C10 scoot.

My son-in law had to have a duramax. In the past 3 years I think he's put an additional 5-6 grand in it to keep it running. Just as I mentioned with the lift pump issue, blown hoses, oil cooler hoses leaking, all kinds of crap. I don't think a 6.0 Ls would have given him this many issues

[kwmech]

Got a short story here on a truck that was towed into the shop a few years back. Late model dodge diesel. Start it up in the morning cold, drive it a few miles down the road and it goes into limp mode--won't go over 15 mph. Limp it back to the shop. Scan check, get several codes from different computers. Like from the speedo head and AC module and engine module. Huh? clear the codes, drive it (even though it is in limp) around the parking lot and block. Eng lamp comes on. Scan immediately since it is already plugged in. Getting communication errors. OK something in the can-bus system. Into the bay with all the codes written down before and after. Unplug a few modules and pin them out. Everything checks ok. Start pinning the harness and looking for something pinched--nothing. Anyways messed with this thing on and off for 2 weeks. I've got about 25-30 hours of diag time into it. Customer was already fed up and bought another truck. OK fine, customer had it towed to the dealer where the 'local expert' was gonna check it. A friend of mine who've I already had spoken with. He had it for a month off and on. Finally called me. He was poking through the glove box and found a receipt from the local 10 min lube place and they had 'serviced the transmission'. He pulled the pan and the monkeys when they reinstalled the pan had inadvertently rolled the wiring harness between the front of the pan and the valve body. When the truck was shifting the solenoid pins kept punching the harness until it broke through and was grounding out the can-bus system making it all wonky (yes that's a word) After a 200. harness and another trans service it was running perfect. Plus countless hours of diagnosis. Kicked his butt also. OK so the story was longer than I thought.

[MySons68C20]

Great story! I read the whole thing....amazing since my attention span is about
3 sentences haha.

[kwmech]

I was trying to show how 1 stupid thing can kill the whole truck and render it useless. Of course the same mentioned could also kill a gas engine truck also, but it is the go ''all electric'' phase that is getting too carried away.

GMs 2022 suburban is all electronic---even the connection between transmission and the driver. Push button transmission control. Push a button for drive, push a button for reverse. parking brake is electric also. Soooo what happens if the battery goes dead overnight and you have it in park with the parking brake set? or something dies while driving it and you lose power...stuck in gear (automatic in gear without the converter turning is basically neutral) and no way to even set the brake to keep it from rolling

[MySons68C20]

I hear you on that..I have a 2007 Jeep Wrangler X that has some weird electrical / sensor gremlins right now.
It drives fine for awhile then it acts like the trans is in neutral. A bunch of lights on the dash come on related to the ESP traction control.
I'm going to lock out that feature by pushing and holding down a button for 7 seconds, turning the steering wheel back and forth etc.
There is a whole protocol to do this....we'll see if it works!
I'll check fluid levels of course along with a filter and fluid change.
I like simple!!

[SunSoaked]

Originally Posted by b454rat

I looked at a new Chevy Colorado with the V-6. Can't remember what size it was but 3.something liter. I also looked at the diesel Colorado. But after seeing the price tag that went away quick. But the diesel didn't get maybe 1-2 miles better than the gas. I was looking for fuel mileage for new job, 45 minutes one way. I've never built or owned a diesel truck, but no way I'd get a new one. If anything, a 12 valve or maybe even a 4BT. I don't need a pulling truck, I have 2 CCSB's both with 454s. IMO, would have to get the donor motor cheap enough to offset the cost....

You're wrong. My brothers 19 Colorado with the v6 was less than impressive on power and mpg. I loved the mid-sized truck otherwise for a daily driver. One test drive in the 2.8 diesel version a few years later and I was instantly hooked on the grunt and towing capacity not to mention the incredible ride quality. I actually flew to Oregon (from Az) to buy my 21 Canyon AT4. 16,000 miles later its still the best vehicle I ever owned. We have the gasser versions at work and I'm still less than impressed.
I routinely get 35+ mpg on the freeway. Don't mind the Wooly Mammoth, were an odd bunch down here.

[b454rat]

Really?? I was just going by what the specs were on line bout the Colorado. I'm looking for gas mileage anymore since I drive 45 minutes one way to work. I'd love a new vehicle, but can't justify $50 on any new vehicle....

[SunSoaked]

If I had a "project truck" and some money I would absolutely buy the new 2.8 Crate Engine from Cummins. This is basically the same as the GM midsize diesels in an "offroad" package.

https://www.cummins.com/engines/repower