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Old 10-25-2020, 12:48 AM   #51
SkidmoreGarage
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Re: Skidmore '67 C20

I have also been cleaning up the front end in preparation for putting the front sheetmetal back on the passenger side (and removing the driver side!). I didn't take a before of the core support, but it was rough and crispy. It is now smooth and uniformly black.

In total I cleaned up (so much grime and surface rust) and painted
  • radiator core support
  • radiator brackets
  • front bumper supports
  • frame ends
  • crossmember
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Old 10-25-2020, 01:05 AM   #52
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Re: Skidmore '67 C20

I also replaced the cab mounts and the radiator core support mounts (shown above). I am pretty sure the ones I removed were original to the truck and were completely thrashed by time.

The cab is much higher now, but the body lines between the bed and the cab now line up, which is a win. However, a bigger problem arouse, which is that the previous owner moved the side trim to line up front to back... I don't know if it is supposed to be like the door, which is lined up on the body line crease, or like the bed, which is offset below the body line crease about 1/2"... Let me know which is correct. I may be shifting it- eventually. Sorry for no photos.
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Old 10-25-2020, 01:33 AM   #53
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Re: Skidmore '67 C20

Today I tackled the high hump transmission cover, it was very straightforward.

I found a lot of different ways that others have installed their cover, but I figured I would share mine as I think it incorporates a lot of the positives I learned from others.

I wanted it to be removable, and used rivet nuts (rivnuts, nut-serts, whatever trade name you prefer). I matched the size to the OEM size, which is 5/16 - 18 washer head bolts. I got the tool from Amazon, and bought quality rivet nuts and bolts from the local bolt supply place. I didn't use self tapping or sheet metal screws because I don't like when you have sharp fasteners poking through the body. I also did a practice rivet to set the compression distance for the sheet metal, this is important because you can snap the mandrel.

I installed the rivnut first (less risk of deforming the sheetmetal), using a transfer punch to mark the center of the holes in the tunnel, and a step drill bit to drill the correct size hole.

Once all of the rivnuts were installed, I then marked out the edge of the cover and found that I could cut along the existing dimple around the edge. I then setup my plasma cutter and did a drag cut through the trough. There were a lot of warning threads about making sure that you weren't cutting anything on the transmission. This did not prove to be a concern, there is nothing within a few inches on the bottom. I then used a sawzall to cut the pinch weld areas.

I cleaned up the edge with some 40 grit and a file, and primed. I will use 3M Strip Caulk (08578) for the final installation. I will then prime over the entire floor, put down some sound deadener, and then cover with carpet.

I also took the opportunity to clean the transmission and cross member. I found that it was pretty clean on top. I think the major leaks are the input and output seal, and the drain pan. However, I think that most of the caked on oil is from the engine. I think that the truck has been driven without proper crankcase/valvetrain ventilation. I think it has been about 15k miles since someone put on the period correct "275hp" valve covers, but I think they got 2 of the same without vent holes.
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Old 10-25-2020, 08:20 AM   #54
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Re: Skidmore '67 C20

Looking good
I like the rivnut process you used on the transmission tunnel.
That looks factory installed.







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Old 10-25-2020, 03:47 PM   #55
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Re: Skidmore '67 C20



Looking good!
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Old 11-05-2020, 02:08 AM   #56
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Re: Skidmore '67 C20

I have been plodding along in the garage, figured I should share an update.

I bought some ACC Essex Carpet in Charcoal, from Rock Auto. I could have waited, but I wanted to have it here for color matching. When it arrived, I was a little shocked that it wasn't the color I had seen as a sample. I have since learned that the different carpet levels have the same names for some colors, but are totally different. After a little adjustment, I decided that I really like this color. It should go with my future plans for tan leather seats.

I also finished shaping the stubborn outer passenger rocker and got it on the truck, finally. I used panel bond (for the first time) to attach the step to the inner rocker, I didn't want to spot weld it like factory. It is a prime area for water to collect and rust, which is accelerated by the spot welds. I also welded up the seam on the B-pillar. The rest of it was just the typical spot welds.
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Old 11-05-2020, 02:10 AM   #57
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Re: Skidmore '67 C20

Some more photos.
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Old 11-05-2020, 02:20 AM   #58
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Re: Skidmore '67 C20

I discovered the the truck had a little bit of "accident damage". Ok, not really. But something had hit the lower bumper fill panel on one side. it twisted the corner and tore open the last bolt hole. It also tweaked the fender liner, but I haven't worried about that yet.

I didn't get a decent before photo, but it was quite folded up. It was an opportunity to practice with my body hammers and a low stress break from rust repair. I think it turned out quite well.
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Old 11-05-2020, 02:30 AM   #59
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Re: Skidmore '67 C20

I moved onto the passenger cab corner yesterday. I moved slowly with fitting this patch as I was worried that I could get it wrong and make the corner not line up. It is a pretty complex shape and I had a known bad panel pressing. I am also being ambitious and welding the outer rocker to the cab corner, which makes it a little more finicky to get right, and easier to get wrong.
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Old 11-05-2020, 02:49 AM   #60
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Re: Skidmore '67 C20

We are going into the no-picture zone...

I removed my old windshield, it was cracked and good practice for the replacement when I put it back in. It ended up in the recycle bin last night. It was somewhat un-eventful, but I learned that the last person to put it in didn't treat the rust around the windshield. They also knew about the cab leaking, as they had squirted mystery butylene around the top of the frame and the drip rail "gaps", which, to no one's surprise, didn't do anything but hold the water in.

It is actually in pretty good shape, shouldn't need to patch anything. I brushed on some Ospho after a little wire wheel action. I did have a question though. Is there any guide/thoughts on what to do about my drip rail seams? The ones that extend from the drip rail to the window frame? They are very large and the factory seam seal was pretty much non-existent. I am going back and forth between short strand fiberglass reinforced filler, welding, or seam sealer.

Anyone have experience to share?

Also, does anyone have a sprayable chassis paint that you would recommend? I am not taking the cab off, so this will need to be redone. I bought some rustoleum in the gallon can, but I am having second thoughts. My local body shop supply place only carries one type of chassis paint. I'm sure it is good stuff, but it only comes in a gallon and requires reducer and catalyst. Total cost is $200, that is a bit steep for a patchwork repair.
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Old 11-05-2020, 12:15 PM   #61
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Re: Skidmore '67 C20

Nice work. I like the panel bond idea underneath the rocker. Still have the drain holes right?

I welded my rocker to cab corner too, I like not having that seam anymore and I just think it will keep the water out and less chance of rot.

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Old 11-05-2020, 12:23 PM   #62
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Re: Skidmore '67 C20

Thanks, I left the little water channels open and prepped the area between them.

I also plan to butt weld the bottom pinch weld, this may be a little tricky to get right. I'll leave the drain holes open. Best news is that I'll seam seal it with heavy body, so it doesn't have to be perfect.
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Old 11-10-2020, 10:44 AM   #63
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Re: Skidmore '67 C20

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkidmoreGarage View Post
We are going into the no-picture zone...

I removed my old windshield, it was cracked and good practice for the replacement when I put it back in. It ended up in the recycle bin last night. It was somewhat un-eventful, but I learned that the last person to put it in didn't treat the rust around the windshield. They also knew about the cab leaking, as they had squirted mystery butylene around the top of the frame and the drip rail "gaps", which, to no one's surprise, didn't do anything but hold the water in.

It is actually in pretty good shape, shouldn't need to patch anything. I brushed on some Ospho after a little wire wheel action. I did have a question though. Is there any guide/thoughts on what to do about my drip rail seams? The ones that extend from the drip rail to the window frame? They are very large and the factory seam seal was pretty much non-existent. I am going back and forth between short strand fiberglass reinforced filler, welding, or seam sealer.

Anyone have experience to share?

Also, does anyone have a sprayable chassis paint that you would recommend? I am not taking the cab off, so this will need to be redone. I bought some rustoleum in the gallon can, but I am having second thoughts. My local body shop supply place only carries one type of chassis paint. I'm sure it is good stuff, but it only comes in a gallon and requires reducer and catalyst. Total cost is $200, that is a bit steep for a patchwork repair.
I always weld all those windshield seams solid. A bit of work, but much better. It's lookin' good!
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Old 11-10-2020, 03:44 PM   #64
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Re: Skidmore '67 C20

Thanks for the reply, I posted in the bodywork section as well and got the advice to just use seam sealer. I'm not sure which way I'll go yet. The idea of seam sealer is attractive as I am not smoothing out the rest of the drip rail, so cosmetics aren't really an issue. I may also use a combination of both. Do you have any pictures? I checked your build thread (nice work by the way) and didn't see anything about the rails.

I also got a wheel to test fit. Here's a preview. It's an 18x10 5.5" backspace. I plan to run the same setup on all 4 corners. I chose the 18 for the selection of tires and the extra sidewall. My M5 was about the same weight as this truck will be, and it had 295 35 18s- I'm hoping to recreate that ride and contact patch.
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Old 11-10-2020, 04:10 PM   #65
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Re: Skidmore '67 C20

Are you planning to keep stock suspension like setup? You may run into fender rub issues with 5.5" backspacing(depending on your offset). Most run the 4.25" and 4.5" I think. But disregard this if your customizing rear axle and front suspension to accommodate this.
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Old 11-10-2020, 04:35 PM   #66
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Re: Skidmore '67 C20

Yeah, these are all questions I have as well. That is one of the reasons I bought one wheel from Jegs to try out. The other reason I bought from Jegs is the return policy and cost. It only costs about $16 to return a wheel. That's the best deal I could find, and they price match. If I had someone come out and measure, it's about $150 and then I still don't know if this particular wheel fits.

This size/requirements isn't really common, and I couldn't find conclusive info that it would or wouldn't fit. But the research I did find from a reputable source said the fronts should work and the rear is up to the WMS distance. 71/72 axle WMS may work depending on the tire, otherwise I'll need a spacer. I also found a thread where the targa truck guy mentioned that he was able to run very similar wheels with 275 35 18s. One drawback with matched front and rear is that the rears will sit in from the bedsides. I'll tackle that depending on how bad it is with a spacer.

I do have custom front suspension in the QA1 coilovers kit. It is much less bulky than the original A-arm setup. I also have disc brakes.
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Old 12-03-2020, 12:08 AM   #67
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Re: Skidmore '67 C20

I have been working in the garage but not updating this thread, sorry for anyone following along.

The main goal of the project, to fix the rust and the interior hasn't made a ton of progress, as I need to lift the bed to finish the cab corner. Once it is back on its wheels, it should be easier to move around/get the bed off. I have most of the passenger side done, I just need to finish up the back of the cab corner and stitch weld the lower pinch weld. I also need to move forward on the drip rail and window frame.

I bought the front sway bar and end-links from QA1. Way over-priced for what it is, but it "bolted right up". I had to remove and replace the stock sway bar hangers (riveted on). This took an afternoon of grinding and beating out rivets upside down, even with my air chisel. Unfortunately this triggered more scope when I realized I needed to paint the underside of the front of the truck before buttoning up the sway bar install.

I finished up painting the front end frame/cross member/bumper brackets/core support, nothing special just cleaned it up and applied paint. Looks a million times better. I bought semi-gloss, but it turned out a little glossier than I wanted.
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Old 12-03-2020, 12:31 AM   #68
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Re: Skidmore '67 C20

I also mocked up the new wheel/tire (275/40/18) on the front suspension- not even close to contacting any part of the suspension or fender liner. Makes me think I could go wider but I couldn't find anything off the shelf in an 18 that had a wider rim. I need to check the fitment on the rear before I order the entire set. I want to run the same wheel/tire on all 4 corners. It's a personal preference of mine. I like to maximize grip while allowing for tire rotations. I may make a change in the future if I find that the one end of the truck doesn't have enough mechanical grip.

The old tires were 265/75 r16 on 8 inch wide rims, new tire is 275/40 r18. The difference in diameter is quite a lot, I did the math and the speedo should be out by almost 15%.

You may be asking yourself, if you are following along closely, "You had to convert to 5 lug in the front, and plan to run 5 lug wheels. But, you had a 67 C20 with a HO72 (8 lug)... What are you going to do in the rear?". Well, yes. I have had to add a lot more scope to my project...
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Old 12-03-2020, 12:33 AM   #69
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Re: Skidmore '67 C20

Things have escalated.
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Old 12-03-2020, 01:00 AM   #70
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Re: Skidmore '67 C20

I happened to pick up a Currie 9" for a 67 . I also snagged this.

Should be a big upgrade and about 100lbs lighter (guessing). I can pick up the 9", I can barely move one side of the old HO72.

Specs:
  • 5x5 BCD
  • Disc brakes w/ integrated parking brake
  • 31 spline axles
  • 3.50 Detroit Truetrac Differential
  • Should hold up to future HP plans

This triggers some rethinking of my plans.

Originally I had on my list:
  • Poly trailing arm bushings (already bought)
  • 450 lb HD 4" lowering springs (already bought, was thinking double duty)
  • No limit shock relocation kit (or DIY equivalent, but I don't like the layback shock)
  • Re-use lowering blocks
  • Shorten and re-weld panhard bar
  • No rear sway bar

I am now doing some more research. I want to stay with the 3/4 ton trailing arms (but stitch welded). I don't think I want the burley 450lb springs, it sounds like these trucks don't like to be oversprung if you want them to hookup/turn. It sounds like 200 +/- 25 lbs is what I am seeing, with an airbag helper if you need to load up the bed. I still plan to not run a rear sway bar (a hold over from what I learned from Miatas). I have sent a PM to Rob at No Limit, as well as placed a call today but missed them both times.

I am thinking of going with a long-travel coilover, but I don't really like the off the shelf bolt on options for my combination. I am thinking that a weld on bracket kit, since my rear end isn't painted, would make a lot of sense. I am leaning towards either a QA1 or Ridetech single adjustable coilover.

I am looking for suggestions/experiences. I have read most of the "make it handle" thread, as well as shopped around. I am having trouble finding the shock specifications to build out a coilover that should work well.
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Old 12-03-2020, 11:15 AM   #71
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Re: Skidmore '67 C20

Well, I'm just along for the ride here since I am building a stocker lowered with a few moderns, so I have no advice for you here But I wanted to say it's looking good man. I have been watching SCOTI build over in the early 60's threads and he is really building something awesome over there, very custom. And you might hit him up if he isn't already following your build for answers.

I also have a question, where did you find the HD trailing arms? What advantages do they give you besides durability? And last, I need to check out this airbag helper system, I plan to use my truck and that might be something I need. Who sells these kits at a good price but good quality?

Keep it up man, looking great!
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Old 12-03-2020, 11:26 AM   #72
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Re: Skidmore '67 C20

Just read through your thread - looks like quality work throughout. Nice job on that seat! I have a 68 bench that I will be redoing to put in the 69. I messed up and threw away the old foam and I've been regretting that. But I have new foam like yours - formed bottom and basically just a thin sheet for the back as well as a houndstooth cover on the way. I'll be referring to your thread and those links when it comes time to tackle the seat.
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Old 12-03-2020, 04:55 PM   #73
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Re: Skidmore '67 C20

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Originally Posted by TA_C10 View Post
Well, I'm just along for the ride here since I am building a stocker lowered with a few moderns, so I have no advice for you here But I wanted to say it's looking good man. I have been watching SCOTI build over in the early 60's threads and he is really building something awesome over there, very custom. And you might hit him up if he isn't already following your build for answers.

I also have a question, where did you find the HD trailing arms? What advantages do they give you besides durability? And last, I need to check out this airbag helper system, I plan to use my truck and that might be something I need. Who sells these kits at a good price but good quality?

Keep it up man, looking great!
Thanks for following along! I'll check out SCOTI's thread. I just had a long conversation with Impey at No Limit. I think I have a plan, more to come later. I am waiting on a quote. I just sent back my 450 lb springs to summit, so no going back!

The HD trailing arms came with the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks (Mine was a 3/4t). They are the standard c10 arms, but with ~1/8"-3/16" thick plates rosette welded to the top and bottom. The stock I beam is only spot welded together along the center where the beam is weakest, so I see the stiffening plates as a bonus to prevent the beams from bending around the spot welds. I have no data, so who really knows!

As far as the helper airbags. I don't have a link or product to share. I found something in the "make it handle" thread in the suspension forum, but I would have to look again. I think any proper length adjustable pressure air helper would work, just mounted in the stock spring location (or inside, if you have lowering springs).
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Old 12-03-2020, 04:58 PM   #74
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Re: Skidmore '67 C20

Quote:
Originally Posted by MDPotter View Post
Just read through your thread - looks like quality work throughout. Nice job on that seat! I have a 68 bench that I will be redoing to put in the 69. I messed up and threw away the old foam and I've been regretting that. But I have new foam like yours - formed bottom and basically just a thin sheet for the back as well as a houndstooth cover on the way. I'll be referring to your thread and those links when it comes time to tackle the seat.
Thanks and good luck! Have you already checked to see if you have any broken coils/edge springs? You may want to have those in hand before you start, if they are broken/bent. Wes at Classic Heartbeat has a box of old edge springs, if you need one.
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Old 12-03-2020, 05:09 PM   #75
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Re: Skidmore '67 C20

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkidmoreGarage View Post
Thanks and good luck! Have you already checked to see if you have any broken coils/edge springs? You may want to have those in hand before you start, if they are broken/bent. Wes at Classic Heartbeat has a box of old edge springs, if you need one.
I did notice one broken edge spring on the driver side. I was just going to weld it but I read that it would make it brittle so I'll have to rethink that approach.
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