The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network







Register or Log In To remove these advertisements.

Go Back   The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network > 47 - Current classic GM Trucks > The 1947 - 1959 Chevrolet & GMC Pickups Message Board

Web 67-72chevytrucks.com


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-26-2021, 05:59 PM   #1
forestb
Registered User
 
forestb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 3,096
automatic in a 58 apache

What sizes of automatic transmissions will fit in a 1958 half ton without doing any cutting?
forestb is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2021, 06:11 PM   #2
Rickysnickers
Senior Member

 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Eagle, ID
Posts: 1,597
Re: automatic in a 58 apache

I have a 700r4 in my '57, if that helps. Nothing has been cut.
Rickysnickers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2021, 06:27 PM   #3
forestb
Registered User
 
forestb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 3,096
Re: automatic in a 58 apache

That does help some. At least it gives me a little confidence.
forestb is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2021, 07:32 PM   #4
G&R's57GMC
Senior Member
 
G&R's57GMC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Shasta Lake, CA.
Posts: 1,503
Re: automatic in a 58 apache

Also a 4L60E , TH350 , 200R4 , Aluminum Power Glide and a cast iron Power Glide .
__________________
Glen & Jane's Rides
‘57 GMC NAPCO Long Bed V8 4 speed Bought 2008
7 other cars & trucks , 5 trailers
'56 Chevy Long Bed I6, 4 speed Bought 1990 Sold 8.22.2020
’56 GMC Suburban Pickup V8, 4 speed Hydramatic Bought 1996 Sold 10.11.2020
My Other Tinkerings http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...75#post8967275
G&R's57GMC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2021, 07:52 PM   #5
mr48chev
Registered User
 
mr48chev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Toppenish, WA
Posts: 13,377
Re: automatic in a 58 apache

There should be room for any GM trans that will bolt to the engine.

If you don't have side engine mounts on the engine in the truck now it would be extremely wise to install side mounts provided the engine has the pads for them. Reason being, that if you run stock front TF motor mounts at the front of the engine and a rear mount on the transmission you stand a good chance of either breaking the bellhousing or having the front seal in the trans leak due to the tendency for the whole assembly wanting to flex when it is supported that way.
__________________
Founding member of the too many projects, too little time and money club.

My ongoing truck projects:
48 Chev 3100 that will run a 292 Six.
71 GMC 2500 that is getting a Cad 500 transplant.
77 C 30 dualie, 454, 4 speed with a 10 foot flatbed and hoist. It does the heavy work and hauls the projects around.
mr48chev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2021, 10:25 PM   #6
forestb
Registered User
 
forestb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 3,096
Re: automatic in a 58 apache

Awesome. Thanks everyone
forestb is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2021, 08:03 PM   #7
_Ogre
Registered User
 
_Ogre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Motown
Posts: 7,246
Re: automatic in a 58 apache

orrieg is the only builder i've seen not to cut out the trans x-member
the trans x-member also supports the front cab mounts
if you cut it out it needs something in place of the factory x-member

this is how i handled it in my apache when i installed a 700r4
the x-member supports the rear trans mount
the diagonals keep the frame from flexing at the cab mounts
Attached Images
  
__________________
cool, an ogre smiley Ogre's 58 Truk build

how to put your truck year and build thread into your signature
shop air compressor timer
_Ogre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2021, 11:18 PM   #8
cameo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ardrossan Alberta
Posts: 56
Re: automatic in a 58 apache

Don't forget they cam with an Automatic option, the 4 speed Hydramatic. this was also used in busses and tanks

actually forget that thing it weighs more than the engine, parts are next to impossible to find, needs periodic adjustment, and has no park.

Had to be an a$$
sorry
cameo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2021, 04:18 PM   #9
G&R's57GMC
Senior Member
 
G&R's57GMC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Shasta Lake, CA.
Posts: 1,503
Re: automatic in a 58 apache

Quote:
Originally Posted by cameo View Post
Don't forget they cam with an Automatic option, the 4 speed Hydramatic. this was also used in busses and tanks

actually forget that thing it weighs more than the engine, parts are next to impossible to find, needs periodic adjustment, and has no park.

Had to be an a$$
sorry
Ahh but it did have a “park” in consumer vehicles .

Although it didn’t have a park position on the selector .

Remember when this “new fangeled” automatic transmission came out it was customary to put your manual trans in reverse when parked , why because reverse was generally the lowest gear .

So it was a natural thing to put the automatic in reverse when parked .

The 4 speed Hydramatic has a parking pawl that is held off when the engine is running and the transmission is pressurized . When selecting reverse and shutting the engine off the pawl in no longer held off and a spring pushes the pawl into engagement with the components directly connected to the output shaft of the transmission .

Start the engine in neutral and drive away in whatever gear selected .
__________________
Glen & Jane's Rides
‘57 GMC NAPCO Long Bed V8 4 speed Bought 2008
7 other cars & trucks , 5 trailers
'56 Chevy Long Bed I6, 4 speed Bought 1990 Sold 8.22.2020
’56 GMC Suburban Pickup V8, 4 speed Hydramatic Bought 1996 Sold 10.11.2020
My Other Tinkerings http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...75#post8967275
G&R's57GMC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2021, 04:31 PM   #10
cameo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ardrossan Alberta
Posts: 56
Re: automatic in a 58 apache

interesting. the one in my 57 did not have the pawl in it.
There is a guy in Mission BC (Canada) that drag races a 4-speed Hydramatic in a 58 Impala. its a big heavy boat with 348 W-head (could be wrong on displacement, but it isn't a 409) and it looks like it could be on the strip in 1959. and it boogies.
cameo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2021, 04:46 PM   #11
G&R's57GMC
Senior Member
 
G&R's57GMC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Shasta Lake, CA.
Posts: 1,503
Re: automatic in a 58 apache

Ok it should have had a pawl or if it did maybe the spring was broken or missing .

My ‘56 had one .

I’ve run into several younger owners that didn’t know about putting it in reverse and were jumping out and putting a block under a tire . Once I told them about putting it in reverse and shutting it off they were happy truckers .
__________________
Glen & Jane's Rides
‘57 GMC NAPCO Long Bed V8 4 speed Bought 2008
7 other cars & trucks , 5 trailers
'56 Chevy Long Bed I6, 4 speed Bought 1990 Sold 8.22.2020
’56 GMC Suburban Pickup V8, 4 speed Hydramatic Bought 1996 Sold 10.11.2020
My Other Tinkerings http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...75#post8967275
G&R's57GMC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2021, 05:13 PM   #12
mr48chev
Registered User
 
mr48chev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Toppenish, WA
Posts: 13,377
Re: automatic in a 58 apache

The hydromantic really isn't a great option unless you are seriously bent on restoring a truck to stone stock. Reasons being that the parts are hard to find and now quite expensive plus finding someone who actually knows what they are doing on one is getting quite hard and again quite expensive.

For me having more comfortable driving by installing an automatic also means having an automatic that I can get serviced at any legit dealer or service shop and can get serviced,repaired or replaced on a road trip in a reasonable amount of time if needs be. That means Turbo 350, 400 or one of the overdrives that are now common.
__________________
Founding member of the too many projects, too little time and money club.

My ongoing truck projects:
48 Chev 3100 that will run a 292 Six.
71 GMC 2500 that is getting a Cad 500 transplant.
77 C 30 dualie, 454, 4 speed with a 10 foot flatbed and hoist. It does the heavy work and hauls the projects around.
mr48chev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2021, 09:39 PM   #13
forestb
Registered User
 
forestb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 3,096
Re: automatic in a 58 apache

Thank you guys for all the help but when I asked the question I was looking at buying a 58 with a manual transmission but that isn’t going to happen. Thanks for all the help.
forestb is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2021, 03:35 PM   #14
daveshilling
Senior Member
 
daveshilling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: roseville
Posts: 486
Re: automatic in a 58 apache

No worries, now you know for next time!
__________________
My Current Trucks:

1958 Apache Extra Long(Now Short) Step Big Window "Lucky" C4 IFS/IRS LS 5.3 build thread-Found a cheap truck to learn on
1956 GMC Suburban Pickup: Poncho 389, Hydramatic, Factory P/S, RSD, Clock
1959 Apache 3100 Shortbed Camper Special with Spare, 235/4 speed, Factory Positraction rear.
daveshilling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2021, 06:53 PM   #15
mr48chev
Registered User
 
mr48chev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Toppenish, WA
Posts: 13,377
Re: automatic in a 58 apache

Better to ask and then decide it is too much work than not ask and find out that it is a lot more work than you thought.

Back in the mid 70's a lot of guys with TF trucks were buying 350's and Turbo 350's out of the wrecking yard and sticking them in the trucks using the stock front mounts, cutting out the middle crossmember with a torch and making a rear crossmember for the trans out of what ever they had be it channel iron tubing or ?? Some times pretty sketchy crossmembers as there was little or no aftermarket stuff available then. Leaky front seals in the trans were pretty common and broken bellhousings happened enough so that you heard about them without any internet. A friend showed me one in his transmission shop when I stopped by to visit.

Those were pretty quick and nasty swaps, I was around one where they drove the truck to a friend's shop in the morning with the engine and trans in the back and backed it out of the shop and drove it home about 9 pm that night and didn't really get in a big hurry doing it. I think their biggest hassle was figuring out how to mount the automatic floor shifter that came out of the donor rig so they could reach it from the seat.
__________________
Founding member of the too many projects, too little time and money club.

My ongoing truck projects:
48 Chev 3100 that will run a 292 Six.
71 GMC 2500 that is getting a Cad 500 transplant.
77 C 30 dualie, 454, 4 speed with a 10 foot flatbed and hoist. It does the heavy work and hauls the projects around.
mr48chev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2021, 06:35 AM   #16
dennislbrooks
The Man, the Myth, the Legend

 
dennislbrooks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Williamsburg, Ohio
Posts: 1,634
Re: automatic in a 58 apache

Maybe just me. Part of my 2wd to 4wd thread using a 350TH with a np208. The transfer case does not make a difference in mine. In other words, I could not place the 350th in the truck with the rear engine xmember in place. I am not sure where their engine placement was to allow them not to cut. Mine is a 59 GMC so there may be frame differences and you may be ok.

https://www.67-72chevytrucks.com/vbo...d.php?t=808297

OK, the link where the guy put a np203 in his 59 -- put engine, trans, and transfer case on a bare frame then set the cab on it. I do not know if he could remove the trans from the finished truck without removing the bellhousing cross member.

I removed mine - had to. The cab mounts still hold the frame at that point and I left the riveted sections in for original strength. It is now like my 67 in that area. Now it also has the trans/transfer case mount and crossmember.





__________________
Attached Images
 
__________________
1942 Chevy 1/2 ton Rod, 1946 Chevy 3/4 ton, 1959 GMC 1/2 ton Fleet Stepside, 1967 Chevy SWB K10, 1985 Corvette Coupe 4+3, 2015 Chevy Duramax reg cab 4WD W/T

Last edited by dennislbrooks; 11-22-2021 at 06:56 AM. Reason: words
dennislbrooks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2021, 03:10 PM   #17
dsraven
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: calgary alberta
Posts: 5,166
Re: automatic in a 58 apache

hey brooksie, those little nubs leftover from cutting the cross member out also make a great starting point for a new bolt on member to reinforce the frame near the front cab mounts. just something to tie the rails together so the cab doesn't need to do that job all by itself. without the brace sometimes the cab can crack near the mounts. the other thing that can happen with just the front engine mounts and the rear trans mount, without the larger spread of the original bell housing mounts, is the engine torque can cause the mounts to tear under heavy or sudden loads and then the whole thing rotates. some builds have torque limiting straps or chains in place so this doesn't happen. just a thought.
dsraven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2021, 06:28 PM   #18
dennislbrooks
The Man, the Myth, the Legend

 
dennislbrooks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Williamsburg, Ohio
Posts: 1,634
Re: automatic in a 58 apache

dsraven, I will have to ponder that.
__________________
1942 Chevy 1/2 ton Rod, 1946 Chevy 3/4 ton, 1959 GMC 1/2 ton Fleet Stepside, 1967 Chevy SWB K10, 1985 Corvette Coupe 4+3, 2015 Chevy Duramax reg cab 4WD W/T

Last edited by dennislbrooks; 11-22-2021 at 06:28 PM. Reason: words
dennislbrooks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2021, 06:33 PM   #19
dsraven
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: calgary alberta
Posts: 5,166
Re: automatic in a 58 apache

For the torque issue some guys would simply use a short length of chain bolted to the block and over to the frame. Both sides in case you do a burn out in reverse, haha.
For the cross member you are just trying to stop the frame from flexing apart or together so a bolt on affair works and is easily removed for pulling the trans etc. It also acts as a trans pan shield if your truck sits low.
dsraven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2021, 08:56 PM   #20
1project2many
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Lakes Region NH
Posts: 2,984
Re: automatic in a 58 apache

Quote:
For the cross member you are just trying to stop the frame from flexing apart or together so a bolt on affair works and is easily removed for pulling the trans etc. It also acts as a trans pan shield if your truck sits low.
Hmm... Wondering if a K series THM 350/400/700 with 10MM bolt holes for aluminum torque converter cover and fore-aft braces would allow one to build a bolt in crossmember in similar style to original. Not often thought of and you'd have to find the right transmission.

Hard to see, but these images show the dust cover flange and bolt holes on the 80's K series THM350.


1project2many is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2021, 04:40 PM   #21
dennislbrooks
The Man, the Myth, the Legend

 
dennislbrooks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Williamsburg, Ohio
Posts: 1,634
Re: automatic in a 58 apache

I do believe this pertains to this thread for an auto trans in a 58/59 Chevy/GMC. ---maybe not----

Result of ponder.

I have a low performance 350sbc in front of a 350TH. The only concern I have is that the crossmember I removed also supported the front springs rear perches...

The pic is somewhat scale from front to rear and measurements are center to center.

The 2nd crossmember back 10" from the front oem is the sbc side mount engine mount support 2" box which goes from frame rail to frame rail.

I will have to fabricate a new cross support that has to be bolt in/out that will reside under the trans dust pan about 4 inches in front (c to c) of removed crossmember. This will not be a straight shot. I cannot use the nubs left from the removed crossmember.
Attached Images
  
__________________
1942 Chevy 1/2 ton Rod, 1946 Chevy 3/4 ton, 1959 GMC 1/2 ton Fleet Stepside, 1967 Chevy SWB K10, 1985 Corvette Coupe 4+3, 2015 Chevy Duramax reg cab 4WD W/T

Last edited by dennislbrooks; 11-25-2021 at 12:18 PM. Reason: words
dennislbrooks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2021, 02:33 PM   #22
_Ogre
Registered User
 
_Ogre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Motown
Posts: 7,246
Re: automatic in a 58 apache

Quote:
Originally Posted by dennislbrooks View Post
Maybe just me. Part of my 2wd to 4wd thread using a 350TH with a np208. The transfer case does not make a difference in mine. In other words, I could not place the 350th in the truck with the rear engine xmember in place. I am not sure where their engine placement was to allow them not to cut. Mine is a 59 GMC so there may be frame differences and you may be ok.

OK, the link where the guy put a np203 in his 59 -- put engine, trans, and transfer case on a bare frame then set the cab on it. I do not know if he could remove the trans from the finished truck without removing the bellhousing cross member.

I removed mine - had to. The cab mounts still hold the frame at that point and I left the riveted sections in for original strength. It is now like my 67 in that area. Now it also has the trans/transfer case mount and crossmember.
fyi, the hydromatic trucks had a bolt-in, drop-out x-member

when i first bought 58truk the po had installed the 350/350 on front mounts and trans mount
the motor moved so much that i couldn't keep exhaust doughnut gaskets in either side
i fabricated and welded in new side mounts without pulling the motor or trans
i bolted on sbc motor mount, bolted a 3/8" pipe nipple in and using cardboard templates, cut triangles from the frame flanges to the pipe nipple
easy peasy
__________________
cool, an ogre smiley Ogre's 58 Truk build

how to put your truck year and build thread into your signature
shop air compressor timer
_Ogre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2021, 04:14 AM   #23
dennislbrooks
The Man, the Myth, the Legend

 
dennislbrooks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Williamsburg, Ohio
Posts: 1,634
Re: automatic in a 58 apache

My front engine mounts are side mounts 10" back from the front oem and goes rail to rail. I think I will not add the extra crossmember and beef the added dropped rear trans/transfer crossmember to stiffen things up instead.
Attached Images
 
__________________
1942 Chevy 1/2 ton Rod, 1946 Chevy 3/4 ton, 1959 GMC 1/2 ton Fleet Stepside, 1967 Chevy SWB K10, 1985 Corvette Coupe 4+3, 2015 Chevy Duramax reg cab 4WD W/T
dennislbrooks is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright 1997-2020 67-72chevytrucks.com