47-59 Help Please - 4x4 S10 swap questions

[JayB22]

Hi, I'm new to the forum and I'm hoping someone here can help clear the fog. It seems almost every idea I have turns into something very complicated or just doesn't seem to work. I've spent hours and hours searching google and these boards for answers and haven't found the answers I'm looking for so I'm hoping someone here can help point me in the right direction.

I recently bought a 49 Chev 3800 from a family friend that had some health issues and needed some money. I wasn't planning on taking on a project like this, but the opportunity was there and here I am.

Given the truck I have is 137" Wheelbase (9' bed) I have searched all over for a donor frame for the swap and haven't had any luck finding something that would work. I got a 4x4 S10 frame locally that was the only one I could find. It is a extended cab truck so it has the 122" WB. I am very hesitant to extend the frame 17" to match the truck for structural concerns so I've finally convinced myself to cut the bed down to fit. I'll end up with approx 7'7" of bed space still which I don't mind as it also saves me chopping up the frame. I do realize how rare the 9' bed trucks are and hopefully I wont get roasted too bad for cutting it down.

For my drivetrain I was really hoping to use the 4x4 as I live in Alberta Canada and thought it could be handy. The farther I dive into this rabbit hole the more I'm realizing that just isn't a good idea. Not only is the Transmission just the T5, but having the transfer case in it really seems to make fitment a giant issue. I have sourced a really good deal on a low mile, 5.3LS out of a 2016 truck that was in a accident. The more I think on it the more I'd like to make this work. Given it's light weight and HP abilities I think it could really make this truck fun to drive. Now here is my concerns.

The 4x4 width and ride height really seems like it would give the truck a nice stance so I'm trying to exhaust all my options before scrapping this frame entirely.

I've seen how you can cutup the CV axles and use them as stub shafts to hold all the wheel bearings etc into place. I then could remove all of the 4x4 parts including the transmission and clean it up. If I were to do this, would this allow me enough space for the LS motor to drop in without having to mess with the oil pan etc? Is there any other concerns from doing this outside of worrying about the wheel bearings etc falling out? I don't want to force it to make this work if it is going to be a huge pain or if it will be unsafe. But I also live in the country and drive gravel everyday no matter what so I don't want this to be lowered down to the ground and the truck is as close to being rust free as these things seem to be so I wasn't planning on doing any body work and just leaving the patina how it is.

I got the frame with brake booster, pedals, steering column, drivetrain and everything for $300 and I'm really trying to make this somewhat a budget build, without taking too many short cuts.

Any advice or opinions would be greatly appreciated. I don't get offended easily and am open to learn from those who have been here before.

Thanks for your time.

[mongocanfly]

Welcome..
If you want to cut your bed down , then do it...dont worry about what anyone else thinks..its your truck, fix it like you want..
Russ (joedoh) will be the man for your answers , hes done many s10 swaps..
I cant really answer your questions, but is something wrong with the frame you have?
We like pictures, show us what you got

[JayB22]

I’ll try to get some photos posted.

[JayB22]

Originally Posted by JayB22

I’ll try to get some photos posted.

Posted via Mobile Device

[joedoh]

what year is your s10 frame?

if its a second gen (95-03), you can use a 2wd hub bearing, bolts right on.

if you use the 5.3 from a truck, you will want to swap oil pans with an f body car. you can find the pan and pickup tube on amazon for about $200. while there is no reason you couldnt mount the motor up higher, you will have a lot of floor mods, its like robbing peter to pay paul, buy an oil pan and a set of mounts or spend the same money redoing the floor.

why are you choosing the s10 swap? most choose it because they arent chasing a barrett jackson sale, they want a simple way to get IFS, highway gears, and most of the brake and fuel systems in a single low cost swap. but it sounds like you are choosing parts that will cost more, like your new 2wd front bearings will cost a hundred or so. the saying is "there is no free lunch", if you choose to do an s10 swap its usually best to stick to the format of, long bed single cab s10 2wd, skymangs gave a great tutorial on this swap here. S10 swap how to if you want some mounts for the body instead of cutting them yourself, there are lots of kits out there. I have a couple guys using mine on 4x4 frames right now, looks like changes to the bumper mounts so far but everything else is close.

what do you want the truck to do? what is your budget? lots of ways to get a running driving truck. remember that there are a lot of strong opinions but not one person who responds will help you other than words on a screen, its up to YOU to do the work. no one will do it for you.

[JayB22]

Thanks Joedoh,

My main goal for the truck is to have a nice driving truck with decent performance. The reason I like the idea of the s10 frame is to get modern day handling and brakes on a platform that is very easy to get parts for. Since I was a kid I dreamed of having a muscle car and have always admired trucks that people have built. This seemed like a good way to get my feet wet without having the need to produce a show truck on my first attempt. I have 2 young kids at home so it’s not justifiable to spend a bunch on this project. My short term goal is to work through the kinks with a frame swap or whatever works best to make the truck a nice handling truck and get it running with decent power. For me, having a classic truck I need it to be a manual transmission. Just something I’ve always wanted.

Which has led me to where I am now. I think my issue was I researched each topic just enough to find the good sides of it without actually thinking through the entire build in it’s entirety. Which has me now having a truck stripped off of the frame and a s10 frame sitting outside and no real plan on how to properly put the two together.

The frame is out of a 92 gmc Sonoma. The truck cost me $3k. The frame was $300. I can get a Ls motor for $1500. I’m trying to keep the build between $8-10k. Keep in mind all these prices are CAD so they might be a bit higher then you’re used to. Also parts for the rebuild will also be about 30% more.

As new as I am to this, I have a few very talented people around that I can get to help. I’m just trying to do as much of the lag work before I ask for help. I don’t like wasting any one’s time so the clearer direction I can get in my own head the better.

I looked at the longbox regular cab swaps but wanted as long of a frame as I could get to try and either reduce the amount I needed to extend it or reduce the amount I need to cut the box down.

[JayB22]

As for the original frame, the frames in good shape. The leaf springs are for a 1 ton and they don’t seam to budge no matter how much weight I put on them. The one wheel is seized and doesn’t turn. I’m not opposed to using it and swapping out axles if it is the easier way to go. I just originally had it in my mind that the s10 swap is the way to go. My dad used to help build race car roll cages and has a small machine shop at home so fabbing up parts and body mounts doesn’t concern me as long as I know it’s going to put me in the right direction.

[mongocanfly]

Heres another curve ball..you want a LS and you want a manual...this wont be cheap..its expensive to connect the two
I fully understand the 1t suspension...with a little fab work you could swap out the rear axle and springs..theres been many front clip swaps done as well..
Listen to what Russ said..hes done this many times and knows the ins and outs
If your set on the s10 frame swap, you might be better off making your body fit the frame wb as is, which means cutting the bed..it also means welding very thin metal..if youve never welded thin stuff, it can be a challenge..
Nice looking truck you got btw

[JayB22]

A few more photos including the frame I found.

[JayB22]

Originally Posted by mongocanfly

Heres another curve ball..you want a LS and you want a manual...this wont be cheap..its expensive to connect the two
I fully understand the 1t suspension...with a little fab work you could swap out the rear axle and springs..theres been many front clip swaps done as well..
Listen to what Russ said..hes done this many times and knows the ins and outs
If your set on the s10 frame swap, you might be better off making your body fit the frame wb as is, which means cutting the bed..it also means welding very thin metal..if youve never welded thin stuff, it can be a challenge..
Nice looking truck you got btw

Does it change things if I just went with a 350 and did vortec heads in terms of easy of install as well as getting a manual transmission to work?

[joedoh]

i looked up the bearings for the 92 4x4 and they look the same as the later trucks, 3 bolt mounts, so i wouldnt give up on using 96+ 2wd blazer hubs yet.

if you have the fab-ability, and it sounds like you do, just fab up some cab mounts and see where they line up on the 4x4 chassis. you can kick the rad out in front of the core support and the motor will probably fit without moving the engine back. I can help you with some rough measurements of where to put the front cab mounts, since skymangs measurements for placement will only work on a 2wd frame. its pretty easy though.

a 350 should bolt up to your trans, a 92 4x4 should be a 4.3 v6. if it was a 4 cyl it will not fit. vortec heads sound great.

they make a MII for the 1 ton frames but by the time you got it to canada and pay duty on it and with the conversion rate, you might have spent 3/4 your remaining budget and still need all the rest. you could use the parts off the 4x4 frame you have, like rearend and gas tank etc.

let me know if i can help.

[JayB22]

You are correct. The drivetrain in the Sonoma is a the 4.3 Vortec V6.

Sounds like for my short term plan I’ll change my mind and look for a 350 and hopefully find one with or find some Vortec heads to install on it. I was looking into rebuilding the 4.3 that’s in the frame but they really don’t seem like they easily put out much power so I don’t want to waste my money there.

If you are thinking I can get away without sliding the motor back that would make a big difference in allowing me to keep the 4wd also saves me getting driveshafts made.

If you don’t mind sharing measurements etc that would be greatly appreciated. Being in Canada our aftermarket choices are slim and shipping and exchange is a killer for us.

Thanks for all of your time. I really appreciate it.

[mongocanfly]

Yes a 350 will be cheaper to swap in than a LS...and I love the LS engines..

[JayB22]

Also for the rad, have you had any luck using the stock rad? Mines in good shape and I like the nostalgia of it.

[mr48chev]

As far as the radiator, a good stock radiator will cool a V8 but DO NOT use more than a 4 lb pressure cap. The stock radiators and stock heater cores do not like more than 4 lbs pressure.

The only thing with the 4 wheel drive chassis if you aren't running 4 wheel drive is that they have a ton of brackets left over after you take the front diff and axles out. I don't think the hubs and bearings care if you have axle stubs in them or not. They support the half shafts the half shafts don't support them.

As far as cutting the bed, I'd be inclined to offer the bed up for trade (minus fenders) for an equal condition short bed straight across on FB or ?? and see if I could make a trade within a reasonable distance from where the truck sits. Someone may be hunting that 9 ft bed with a passion. I wouldn't spend a lot of time waiting but it might save you cutting and fitting and make someone else happy in the process.

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by JayB22

I was looking into rebuilding the 4.3 that’s in the frame but they really don’t seem like they easily put out much power so I don’t want to waste my money there.

I use the 4.3 in all my trucks, mostly to be efficient at using "all the parts of the buffalo". a vortec 4.3 has as much hp and almost as much tq as a small carb 350, but the TBI 4.3 is much less. if it needs rebuilt, yes a 350 is probably better than rebuilding.

[JayB22]

Originally Posted by joedoh

I use the 4.3 in all my trucks, mostly to be efficient at using "all the parts of the buffalo". a vortec 4.3 has as much hp and almost as much tq as a small carb 350, but the TBI 4.3 is much less. if it needs rebuilt, yes a 350 is probably better than rebuilding.

The guy I got the truck from said the motor had a knock to it so that’s why the previous owner parked it. Allegedly it only has 130,000km. But I also don’t know how long it’s been parked outside without a hood on it. I’ve looked for a used 4.3 to swap it out with but there isn’t any good ones locally. I even checked a few local places for prices on rebuild kits for the 4.3 and parts seem to be hard to find for them.

[JayB22]

Originally Posted by mr48chev

As far as the radiator, a good stock radiator will cool a V8 but DO NOT use more than a 4 lb pressure cap. The stock radiators and stock heater cores do not like more than 4 lbs pressure.

The only thing with the 4 wheel drive chassis if you aren't running 4 wheel drive is that they have a ton of brackets left over after you take the front diff and axles out. I don't think the hubs and bearings care if you have axle stubs in them or not. They support the half shafts the half shafts don't support them.

As far as cutting the bed, I'd be inclined to offer the bed up for trade (minus fenders) for an equal condition short bed straight across on FB or ?? and see if I could make a trade within a reasonable distance from where the truck sits. Someone may be hunting that 9 ft bed with a passion. I wouldn't spend a lot of time waiting but it might save you cutting and fitting and make someone else happy in the process.

Thanks for the reply. That’s good to know for using the rad. I’ll also give it some thought to look for a trade for the box. I like the idea of making the box match the frame, helps me keep the box a little longer then the standard short box and I don’t mind the idea of leaving the frame in tact and not cutting into it. But I also don’t want to scrap a box that could be useful to someone else.

[dsraven]

ok, just to be clear, what have you got there for parts? it sounds like you have
-a once complete (when you got it) 49 chevy extra long box truck
-you have stripped down the old truck to sperate parts, but what stage of dissasembly have you gone to? complete cab taken off as an asembly with doors, glass etc still intact, complete front body clip taken off as an assembly, box taken off as an assembly, frame is still together and can be pushed around except for a siezed wheel (not sure why, brakes possibly?)?? do you have some pics of the parts?
a complete running and, just previous to you buying, driving s10 sonoma 4x4? complete with wiring harness and pcm to make all that happen

a couple more questions, to keep the budget reasonable enough to get the frame swap done, would you consider using the v6 that comes with the s10 frame? if going this route with the possible intention of getting the truck driving as soon as possible for the most economical way, you could then gather resources for a v8 swap later on as money permits if you still decide a v8 is what you want after you have driven the v6. using the original engine saves you a bunch of cash for stuff like engine mounts, exhaust set up, fuel system changes, throttle linkages (assuming you can make the s10 pedal and cable work). a v8 swap will also need you to consider how the oil pan will fit around the 4x4 chassis cross member under the engine as well as other stuff just mentioned. the torsion bar suspension would also take up some space under the truck that may make things tight for a v8 swap. but there are also lots of guys who have swapped a v8 into a 4x4 s10. I think, for a first timer frame swapper, possibly doing all the stuff at the same time, with a young family that will also need your time, is a lot to bite off and is sometimes the reason why these things are sold as unfinished projects. usually the seller is not recovering his costs
4x4 s10 has torsion bar front suspnsion where the 2wd version uses coil springs. the 4x4 front wheel bearings require the external section of the c/v axle to be kept and torqued to the propr spec as that is what holds the wheel bearing together. they are not meant to be run without that part of the axle, the same as an old fashioned cup and cone wheel bearing is not meant to be used without the retaining nut on the axle. basically the very end part of the axle that goes through the wheel bearing needs to be used. some guys have machined the "cup" part of the cv joint off of the axle and then it is less intrusive but it is still holding the bearing together. you woll see the big nut at the center of the hub unless you run a wheel with the hub capped
if you haven't been there yet you may try the gmupfitter site, click through to the builders section for s/t trucks and there you will find a lot of dimensional info on all the s10 models. you can compare the axle center line to what your old truck had. bear in mind that sometimes the axle centerline needs to change a bit if the truck is lowered otherwise the wheel looks offset in the fender opening. the frames are different for the 2wd compared to 4x4 models. the turning radius is smaller too. the front section of frame is welded to the rear section about where the drivers foot would be. that weld can be ground off and the frame pulled apart some or pushed together some to get the right wheel base. just to make things 'sellable" when done you may want to consider making a 4x4 into a 2wd and how that may cut down the number of possible buyers later on. it is your truck and I don't mean any offence by that, just saying, stuff eventually gets sold when we are talking young families. priorities change and sometimes money is needed somewhere else so stuff gets sold.
I guess it comes down to what you want the end product to be. if you are looking at the v8 simply for the trailer towing hay hauling capabilities then maybe start with that. when building a project truck like this you really need to have a plan and stick with it. if the budget is tight then more reason to have a plan. start a check list of what you want, make another list of what you have, compare the two, come up with a list of what you need to make it work then decide if you can afford that. I suggest to go over the old truck and evaluate what is going to need repair for the type of driving you want to do. if you want the 4x4 because Alberta winters get cold and snowy then you really need to look at the things that also fit the cold and snowy theme. heater, defrost system, windshield wipers, door seals, window seals, other areas where leaks can happen.
anyway, if we know the outcome you are looking for we could suggest different routes. old patina'd, fire breathing, tire smokin low rider is a diffrent build than a dailyndriver 4x4 Alberta truck.

[JayB22]

Daraven,

I purchased a complete, once running truck. I’ve removed all body pieces off of the frame. The cab is complete with all glass and doors still in place. The box and running boards were removed and the front fenders and grill removed. The frame can be wheeled around as long as I lift the back end up and drag it around.

The frame that I bought was not a complete truck. It’s got all of the running gear there though. There is a steering coloumn and and all power steering parts, pedal assembly, brake booster and brakes on all 4 wheels. 5speed t5 trans with borg and Warner diff that seems to shift good and allegedly worked fine when parked. The motor had a knocking noise so that’s why it was originally parked and sold. Most of the wiring is there but I haven’t went through it all to see what’s there or cut. I’ve been planning on a v8 swap with a carb setup from the start so I wasn’t so worried about the wiring.

The original idea with getting this frame/running gear was that the 4x4 track width seems to fit the fenders the best. With it coming with the 5spd and 4wd parts I thought it would be neat to keep it 4wd. I don’t really plan on using the 4x4 in the truck, I just thought it would be neat to build it that way. With it being the long bed 1 ton, I just had a vision of keeping a similar stance as it previously had, but making it ride much better and be a lot more fun to drive. I also like to go out dirt biking west of town and thought it would be a fun cruiser on the weekends. I’m not overly worried about using it in the winter or when it’s gross outside. I have newer trucks for that.

I’m not looking for a slammed truck or a jacked up truck. Just something with a sporty look to it and it would be nice if it would still fit under my 7’ overhead door. When I look at the 4wd s10 frame I feel like with the body on it the way it sits, it should give it a good look which is also why as long as I’m not risking safety, I don’t mind chopping up the cv axles to keep the post in to hold the wheels bearings etc in place and just use it as a 2WD. The front torsion bar gives me some flexibility to fine tune my stance as well if I need to slightly.

My budget is tight only because I don’t want this to get out of control. I like the idea of doing a quick modest build to get my feet wet with the project and get it running. My oldest daughter is turning 5 soon and anytime we are by the truck she asks what she can do to help so if I can get this completed in the near future maybe we can build it together and she won’t loose interest in it and we can drive around in it. It would be nice to do what is needed to get it safely driving around with a power plant that leaves me room to grow with the truck down the road. I see myself diving back into this 5-10 years down the road and trying to get a bit more performance out of it. But in the mean time I’d like to get a good running motor in it that sounds good and goes a bit when you want it to.

I know I kind of rambled on there but I hope that helps see my plan for the truck.

[dsraven]

I know this sounds weird but if you really don't have a good running 4.3 and cant seem to source one then the best option for a power plant is to buy a good running wreck with your engine of choice. it will have all the parts you need as far as engine and trans plus you will have a few parts to sell after and make up a few bucks. that only works if you have some room for storage though. I have bought a few insurance write offs and usually the engine and trans are fine. remember they were good running vehicles before the accident.
with the price of fuel these days I would say go fuel injected if you can.
pm sent to you this morning

[JayB22]

Here’s some photos of my parts piles. I do have room to store things. I’m also trying to avoid looking like a junk yard more then I already am. I have a acreage so it’s good but easy to collect garbage.

[Tempest67]

Looks like you are off to a good start.

I think you need to decide on your motor. V6 SBC, or LS ? this may depend on your ability with computer controlled engines? ( I prefer the SBC because I am not comfortable with computers/sensors, or remove the sensors on a V6 and put a carb on, just an idea?)

I don't want to discourage you, but please make a parts list of everything you will need, and add it up.

I started my build in 2018, and I was hoping to do it for less than $15K (Canadian) and after all the crying, I was over $20K. (front end steering and suspension, wheels and tires, brakes all around, steering parts, structural metal and sheet metal, wiring harness, front and rear lights, mirrors, interior, gauges, sound proofing, door hardware, weatherstrip and window seals, door latches, hardware (nuts, bolts, washers) rad, water pump, alternator, belts and hoses,....etc) you get the idea... it is a long list.

My suggestion, make a plan, make it realistic, and stick to it, as changes cost money.

If you need help, there are a lot of very good members on this forum that will help you out.

Good Luck with the build

[Second Series]

I decided to use an ’88 k2500 for my ’47 3800 swap. I did plenty of research before, so I had an idea it would work. The cab is positioned so the front wheels line up in the fenders, the rear axle was moved to line up with the rear fenders. Nothing else on the drive train was changed. The frame is not too wide and the gas tank is inside the frame rail. This is on a panel truck, so I don’t know how a truck bed would do. The final ride height is the same as original.

[dsraven]

gmupfitter site link. it goes back to 1999, the s10 is in there.

https://www.gmupfitter.com/light-dut...prior-to-2013/