Headers with manual clutch linkage?

[AllGoNoShow]

So I’ve used the search function, but unfortunately there seems to be some conflicting information or people saying what headers they run and not mentioning if they are running a manual or automatic. I just swapped in a “newer” Gen 1 SBC with an early style Tremec TKO 5-speed and am going to be running the stock (or near stock) clutch linkage. Previous owner put on short block hugging headers and routed the pipe to the outside of the frame but i don’t like it and it makes getting to the collector bolts a huge ordeal.

I now have a tranny crossmember with the exhaust holes on the side to run through and want to keep it within and above the frame (it’s going to be on a 4/6 drop so don’t want them hanging). What headers will work with the clutch linkage? I was looking at the mid-length ones, specifically Hedman, and they say every one of their headers will work with the manual transmissions, but then I look at pictures on here and it looks like the tubes/collectors sit smack dab where the z-bar goes, so I’m not sure if I can believe them. Anyone care to share what they are running?

Nick
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[Accelo]

Maybe someone will post a picture with the manual linkage. Over the years headers on a manual have been a PITA. I agree with you and would be leery of any claims. Seems manufactures have no issues claiming combinations work without ever testing them. Specifically over seas manufactures.
Maybe a hydraulic conversion will help you with the issue? You will not have many exhaust piping options if you need to hit the hole in the cross-member.
Rick

[Grumpy old man]

Run 2 1/2" center dump rams horn manifolds , They flow just as good as headers up to 5,000 rpm and don't leak .

[Sheepdip]

Originally Posted by Grumpy old man

Run 2 1/2" center dump rams horn manifolds , They flow just as good as headers up to 5,000 rpm and don't leak .

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^100% Correct^^^^^^^^^^

Headers have their place but are a PITA to keep sealed not to mention the heat they put out.

[Southcity]

2 1/2" center dump rams horn manifolds are a good option but so are quality shorty/center dump headers. Not all headers are created equal, lower quality headers will usually have a thinner flange which is prone to warping (sealing issues) and do not have a quality coating on them to help reduce under hoods temps/heat soak as well as efficient exhaust scavenging. For what it is worth, I had a similar challenge with a manual clutch truck. I ended up going with a nice pair of ceramic coated block hugger shorty headers (center dump) from Sanderson. They have a patented leak-free flange design. It provided excellent clearance from motor, frame, starter, manual clutch linkage and allowed the entire exhaust system to be tucked up between the frame rails. The ceramic coating made them quiet, greatly reduced under hoods temps and provided efficient exhaust scavenging - which is the intention of headers in the first place. Do your research and be sure to work with your go-to exhaust resource, there are many good options available that will provide you with the exhaust system you want.

Here is a link to Sanderson if it's helpful:
https://www.sandersonheaders.com/

[Mike C]

Hedman if you have to have headers. But count me in the camp for the 2 1/2” ‘vette manifolds as well.

['68OrangeSunshine]

I run Heddmans on a 350 in a '71 GMC Jimmy. SM465/NP205/12-Bolt Corp Posi 3.73 rear.
Stock V8 4x4 Z-bar, stock bellhousing.

[gmc684x4]

I had Hedman on my 68 k10 350 sm420 t221 tcase
My dads 72 k10 350 sm465 np205 running hooked headers
4x4 header may need to remove bellhousing mount and run a regular transmission crossmember

I would recommend Hedman and I will probably buy them again in the future

[AllGoNoShow]

Which hedmans are you guys running? Full length or the mid ones?

It currently has the shorty block hugging center dump headers on it that southcity mentions, but man, getting to those collector bolts is impossible without completely removing the header from the cylinder head which entails then dropping the whole exhaust (and it never feels like I can get the collector bolts as tight as they should be).

['68OrangeSunshine]

#69230, I think. It's a 4X4. Full length headers do not drag.

[AllGoNoShow]

Originally Posted by '68OrangeSunshine

#69230, I think. It's a 4X4. Full length headers do not drag.

Do the collectors hang below the frame when viewed from the side?

[special-K]

Originally Posted by Grumpy old man

Run 2 1/2" center dump rams horn manifolds , They flow just as good as headers up to 5,000 rpm and don't leak .

SOS. A guy asks about headers and gets manifolds for an answer full of myths and rumors. I've always preferred headers. Back when I first took interest in modified vehicles right up to now people have been running headers on their cool rides, and I am one. They don't hurt performance when used as a part of the overall motor plan. They aren't loud in my cab. I feel the truck run better. I have not had annoying leak issues, and I have had a pair installed on a road trip straight out of the box with craptastic finish and they lasted 15 years without rusting out or burning out. I think I replaced collector gaskets twice. Takes ten minutes, literally. I had to have the headers installed because one of the manifolds blew out the side. I have had other manifold failures I won't go into. Just saying people can run what they want and have their own opinions. But watch basing that on myths and rumors.

I run Headman Torque Steps on my '72 K2500 (installed in '04). Mine's an automatic but it looks like they would clear the clutch linkage. They don't hang below the frame at all. I have run headers on lots of manual trucks in these years and what you need to look for are ones with the back tube running vertical or slightly forward.

I am not certain, but I believe the 2wd headers hang lower than 4wd headers. Seems backwards but I believe that is what I have seen people say here before. You definitely can't run 3/4 length headers because they run a angle straight into the linkage area. Has anyone ever tried running 4wd full length headers on a 2wd? Are there suspension issues? Motor mount? I have a set I will size up on my '67 C1500 project once engine is in place. For that one I already have a take-off set of Sanderson's, made to fit with manual shift. I'm not sure what way I'll go on that one. I'm keeping my options open.

[68panelman]

I will give you a real world answer with pictures, I have hedman headers on my manual K5, courtesy of the previous owner.
Although they did a good job using heim joints, it does create some bindage, and I plan on removing them and going back to original style manifolds. Tests show that there's very little gain with headers and I prefer the non-heat-soaked starter, easy access to spark plugs and would love to have my spark plug wires properly run under the block.

[sfont66]

On my previous engine/transmission set up (350 with Sm465)in a lowered C10, I ran a set of Headman Headers #69010 they are a inexpensive uncoated midlength header . They clear the clutch linkage just fine, however the old crossmember that was under the bell housing , does require some modifications to the crossmember for the passenger side . If you removed it when installing the TKO then I think everything will fit just fine.
For the money, these headers were great, they allowed me to keep the exhaust tucked up higher in the frame, and pass through the trailing arm crossmember. I also purchased them uncoated on purpose, as at the time I intended to have them coated later.
Pic is not the best but it does show it clears the linkage. The collectors also have a ball socket which is nice.

['68OrangeSunshine]

Originally Posted by AllGoNoShow

Do the collectors hang below the frame when viewed from the side?

I'll have to look. Obviously, as a 4x4 [K/1500] it's raised not lowered any.

[03BlkZ]

Here are the headers I am running on my 70 C10 but I am 3 OTT. Only modification I had to do was grind about 1/8 of an inch on the frame on both sides. Other than that the clutch and shift linkages fit perfect with no interference.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/h...ckup/year/1970

[AllGoNoShow]

Thanks for the replies guys. Based on the comments and some more research I went with the Hedman mid length 69010 header. I bought them on Amazon for their free returns…as stated these are the uncoated versions and I just wanted to see if they fit so I could then spring for the coated versions of them. Good news is that they fit fine as someone here replied, even with the stock linkage. Bad news is- all the ceramic coated versions with 1 5/8 tubes are back ordered, and while I could find the identical header in stock at summit with the 1 3/4 header size , in the course of looking yesterday at prices then today, it appears all of Hedman headers for these trucks (maybe all of them) went up 10-15% in one day across pretty much all the websites! The coated 1 3/4 versions are now $625 instead of $530 they were yesterday!

Amazon still has the uncoated 96010s for $230 (who knows for how long)and I’m not paying almost 3 times that to get a coated version! It’s looking like VHT paint and some header wrap after that fails!
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[lil hoodlum]

I have 2 1968's, a C10 and C20 both with headers and manual clutch linkage. My C10 is a daily driver and has some Summit Racing Ceramic coated headers that have worked fine for nearly 23 years for me although the Ceramic coating hasn't held up to greatly in some places. I wouldn't hesitate to re-purchase another pair for another project.

My C20 I bought as a running driving project that has a four speed and Hedman Headers, haven't had any issues thus far with it and it also clears the Z-bar just fine as does the C10.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by AllGoNoShow

Thanks for the replies guys. Based on the comments and some more research I went with the Hedman mid length 69010 header. I bought them on Amazon for their free returns…as stated these are the uncoated versions and I just wanted to see if they fit so I could then spring for the coated versions of them. Good news is that they fit fine as someone here replied, even with the stock linkage. Bad news is- all the ceramic coated versions with 1 5/8 tubes are back ordered, and while I could find the identical header in stock at summit with the 1 3/4 header size , in the course of looking yesterday at prices then today, it appears all of Hedman headers for these trucks (maybe all of them) went up 10-15% in one day across pretty much all the websites! The coated 1 3/4 versions are now $625 instead of $530 they were yesterday!

Amazon still has the uncoated 96010s for $230 (who knows for how long)and I’m not paying almost 3 times that to get a coated version! It’s looking like VHT paint and some header wrap after that fails!
Posted via Mobile Device

Buy a 2nd set & put them on a shelf. Coat the initial set w/the VHT (or similar) & run them. You could even swap them on an annual-ish basis so the DIY coating is more recently applied for better protection.

Doing so is still cheaper than the coated Headman's & 2 pair will definitely outlast the one that is coated because the coating will wear off in high-heat/high exposure locations.

['68OrangeSunshine]

Originally Posted by AllGoNoShow

It’s looking like VHT paint and some header wrap after that fails!
Posted via Mobile Device

A-G-N-S -- Don't use header wrap. I wrapped my Hedmans after doing a DIY Eastman ceramic coat -- inside and out -- and in 7 years it rusted/burned thru. And I live in AZ.
Yes the Mummy Wrap looked cool. The way it muffled the motor noise was almost Cadillac. Underhood temps were way down.
But wrapping your Hedmans voids the lifetime warranty. I had to shell out another $240 for another pair of 69230s. I was careful to get the same model number headers I had bought before, so I could just bolt up to the existing exhaust pipes. But no. Some genious ''improved'' everything and the same p/n was now assigned to headers with a ball-and-socket collector connection, not the flat 3-bolt header/collector flange I was used to. [I used a copper gasket and it didn't leak.] Now, I had to cut off the collector flange at 3'' back and have a muffler shop weld on the new ball/socket flange.
If I hadn't wrapped my Hedders, I could've gotten a new set under warranty. More likely, they wouldn't have rusted thru.
Unless you're racing, run a show truck, or live in the Sahara don't use mummy wrap.
VHT is good stuff.

[Palf70Step]

There is headers on the truck I am acquiring. 350, with 3 on the tree. Not sure of brand since truck is not here and they have been on the truck since at least 1978 on the 307, 327, and the 2 350's that have been in there. No clearance issues at all.

[AllGoNoShow]

Didn’t even know the header wrap could eat away at the headers so good to know!

So as to not start a whole new thread for a simple question- on the truck clutch fork there are two spots where the little V-head thingy (part of the lower pushrod)can sit into- does it matter which one?! (Inner or outer?)
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[03BlkZ]

Originally Posted by AllGoNoShow

Didn’t even know the header wrap could eat away at the headers so good to know!

So as to not start a whole new thread for a simple question- on the truck clutch fork there are two spots where the little V-head thingy (part of the lower pushrod)can sit into- does it matter which one?! (Inner or outer?)
Posted via Mobile Device

On my 70 with the 3 OTT and hooker headers I am using the outside spot for the clutch push rod.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by AllGoNoShow

Didn’t even know the header wrap could eat away at the headers so good to know!

So as to not start a whole new thread for a simple question- on the truck clutch fork there are two spots where the little V-head thingy (part of the lower pushrod)can sit into- does it matter which one?! (Inner or outer?)
Posted via Mobile Device

Use whichever one allows for the best alignment so binding is minimal.