Blazer Tank for EFI - LS3 Setup ????

[6600DURAMAX]

Couple questions in regards to K5 LS3 build - motor is 585HP - 540FTTQ


1. I have a "newer" plastic Blazer replacement tank for the old carb setup. Is there an in-tank setup that I can just install in place of the "factory" pickup tube?
a. if so what size pump is required for 585HP
b. line size should be what? 1/2'' ?
c. is there a returnless regulator so I can eliminate the return line?

2. Love the Boyd Welding Tank with the Aeromotive Stealth 340 Pump but becomes pretty pricey when adding all the needed options ( fuel level sensor, mounting kit) $820 + shipping....

3. If I go with Boyd tank does the passenger side -90 degree neck work with the Blazer setup?? Its listed as C10 on the website

[72gmguy]

I used a Holley retrofit module for an msd atomic fi system. I would guess fuel pressure could be regulated to whatever the ls3 needs. I just drilled a second hole in my plastic tank.

[Richard]

You can start to see what I am doing about post 113 in my thread. I chose to use a factory pump and factory Blazer tank to modify. Maybe you could have aftermarket tank to use a factory pump IDK. Less money on the tank the way I am going, maybe more fab work. Aftermarket pumps fail, heat the fuel and are designed for constant feed or a return type system. The way I went might cost a bit more with the pwm fuel control but I think it is much more reliable. Aftermarket fuel delivery is old school with the current tech. They have invested a lot of money and do not want to give it up and the general buyers agree with them.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by Richard

You can start to see what I am doing about post 113 in my thread. I chose to use a factory pump and factory Blazer tank to modify. Maybe you could have aftermarket tank to use a factory pump IDK. Less money on the tank the way I am going, maybe more fab work. Aftermarket pumps fail, heat the fuel and are designed for constant feed or a return type system. The way I went might cost a bit more with the pwm fuel control but I think it is much more reliable. Aftermarket fuel delivery is old school with the current tech. They have invested a lot of money and do not want to give it up and the general buyers agree with them.

Was reading through this thread info & went to see what you had done as suggested above. WOW! I'll be going back later & reading from the start but that's a heck of a nice build you have going on.

[6600DURAMAX]

Richard - great build.... have a few questions if you don't mind. Love the idea of using GM components for ease of availability when traveling.

1. What do you mean by controller for the fuel pump?
2. Is the ZL1 a returnless system
3. Does it have built in regulator?
4. Where did you get the mounting ring?

[Thealien]

Originally Posted by 6600DURAMAX

Richard - great build.... have a few questions if you don't mind. Love the idea of using GM components for ease of availability when traveling.

1. What do you mean by controller for the fuel pump?
2. Is the ZL1 a returnless system
3. Does it have built in regulator?
4. Where did you get the mounting ring?

I am not Richard obviously but look up vaporworks it is mentioned in his other thread and that is with that ring and the controller can be purchased. They discussed a lot of the questions you asked it would be a worthwhile visit to their website.

[6600DURAMAX]

I did have a chance to visit the VaporWorx Website - it does not answer most of the questions. Took me a while to find the ring....... wonder if there is cheaper ring option....

One main question - I have an EFI harness from PSI - is this sufficient or have the ability to operate the ZL1 pump, why is their controller needed ?

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by 6600DURAMAX

I did have a chance to visit the VaporWorx Website - it does not answer most of the questions. Took me a while to find the ring....... wonder if there is cheaper ring option....

One main question - I have an EFI harness from PSI - is this sufficient or have the ability to operate the ZL1 pump, why is their controller needed ?

From what I've read about the 'VaporWorks' set-up, their controller is a PWM set-up & changes the current to the pump as needed to achieve the pressures needed.

[6600DURAMAX]

this is my motor setup .... https://blueprintengines.com/product...on-bpls4080ctf

[Thealien]

Originally Posted by 6600DURAMAX

I did have a chance to visit the VaporWorx Website - it does not answer most of the questions. Took me a while to find the ring....... wonder if there is cheaper ring option....

One main question - I have an EFI harness from PSI - is this sufficient or have the ability to operate the ZL1 pump, why is their controller needed ?

I do not know about the harness but I would assume it should or could work. The controller should be doing all the "work" I just briefly researched when I was starting my project but did not need the ZL1 pump as I am just an LS3. I really wanted a factory pump in my original tank. Ended up with a tanks inc set up. Used before, it works.

Here is some of their PWM information. I thought maybe there was a write up about using the ZL1 pump? Maybe it was a different site and they linked to vaporworx for the ring. If I think of it I'll post it but the pump gets plumbed weird like a T and then a return right at the hat. I'll see if I can find it but no guarantees.

https://www.vaporworx.com/pwm-contro...election-tool/

[Richard]

Originally Posted by 6600DURAMAX

Richard - great build.... have a few questions if you don't mind. Love the idea of using GM components for ease of availability when traveling.

Thanks for the compliment.
Some have already started answering with good info.

1. What do you mean by controller for the fuel pump?
As said I am using Vaporworx for the controller. Local to me, met Carl the owner when I picked up my stuff. He is a nice guy and real smart. Pump is pwm controlled. Along with 12v it needs a separate signal to tell it how hard/fast to pump. Might be able to obtain that from some ecms. In my case using the e67 for my motor it appears to come from another module. Using the VW controller seemed like an easier route than trying to integrate bcms.
The controller generates the pwm signal. You can use the fuel pressure sensor he supplies or a map signal as input to the controller, I am using the map signal.

2. Is the ZL1 a returnless system - Yes

3. Does it have built in regulator?
A regulator is not needed. The pump will speed up or slow down to provide the motor the amount of fuel it needs. Other benefits- pump is not running full tilt all the time = quieter, longer life, lower amps, not warming up fuel just to name a few. Another + is the pump has its own sump. No need for a baffled tank. Was told motor would run for over 30 seconds not being submerged in fuel.

4. Where did you get the mounting ring? As mentioned, Vaporworx. They can be found cheaper. Just have to look.

Wanted to add information about the comment above that "pump gets plumbed weird" You just run one fuel line from tank to fuel rail. The tee is inserted to add the pressure sensor in the line if it is used. No disrespect intended to poster.

[Richard]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

Was reading through this thread info & went to see what you had done as suggested above. WOW! I'll be going back later & reading from the start but that's a heck of a nice build you have going on.

Thanks for the kudos.

[6600DURAMAX]

Richard - been doing some more digging into the fuel system - you mentioned taht you probably went the more expensive route but I'm not sure?? I could be missing something but here is what I came up with below

The below is using a BOYD WELDING Aluminum tank as the starting point for both systems

GM MU2101 Setup - Returnless system, no regulator, no added filter
1- Boyd Tank with MU2101 flange - $650
2-MU2102 fuel pump- $215
3- Vapor Worx Controller - $429
total roughly $1,300

Aremotive Setup
1- Boyd Tank with Aremotive 340 Pump - $820
2-Aremotive Regulator - $200
3-Aremotive Fuel Filter - $110
4- Misc Fitting for all that - $50
5- Return Line - $50
Total - $1,230

What am i missing on the above?? Seems like the MU2101 isnt really that much more expensive and is probably more reliable ?

thoughts

[cj847]

Have checked out Tanks Inc website. I have found their prices competitive.

I wonder why you want a return less system. It is easy to use a return system by putting a 99 Corvette filter/regulator near the tank. The filter has a built in regulator and return.

[6600DURAMAX]

The only reason from returnless was less lines, fittings ect...

Keeping all my options open at this point - very interested what other have done to create a reliable system.

I'll check out Tanks Inc. today

[biketopia]

Originally Posted by cj847

Have checked out Tanks Inc website. I have found their prices competitive.

I wonder why you want a return less system. It is easy to use a return system by putting a 99 Corvette filter/regulator near the tank. The filter has a built in regulator and return.

This. This is quite easy to do, the filter is readily available at all your parts stores for low money too. Then you only need a short run of return hose. Speedway sells a complete set up for doing exactly this, or you can piece it together with parts store items pretty easily. And you should be fine with -6 feed line, half inch would be over kill i feel, especially for an N/A application.

[6600DURAMAX]

Just talked to Blueprint engines - for this 408 - they recommend 340LPH and 60 psi

Looks like the corvette filter/regulator is only rated at 255 LPH - do they make a higher rated one or is it best to just go with Aremotive, Holley or like brands ......?

Can the regulator and filter be mounted back toward the tank to limit the return line distance?

[Joyridin]

Originally Posted by 6600DURAMAX

Richard - been doing some more digging into the fuel system - you mentioned taht you probably went the more expensive route but I'm not sure?? I could be missing something but here is what I came up with below

The below is using a BOYD WELDING Aluminum tank as the starting point for both systems

GM MU2101 Setup - Returnless system, no regulator, no added filter
1- Boyd Tank with MU2101 flange - $650
2-MU2102 fuel pump- $215
3- Vapor Worx Controller - $429
total roughly $1,300

Aremotive Setup
1- Boyd Tank with Aremotive 340 Pump - $820
2-Aremotive Regulator - $200
3-Aremotive Fuel Filter - $110
4- Misc Fitting for all that - $50
5- Return Line - $50
Total - $1,230

What am i missing on the above?? Seems like the MU2101 isnt really that much more expensive and is probably more reliable ?

thoughts

I just installed a Boyd tank in my truck. It wasn't anywhere near that price and I ditched the Aeromotive pump and installed a TI/Walbro 340 unit.

This is in a 68 C10 with L83 Gen 5 engine.

[Richard]

Originally Posted by 6600DURAMAX

Richard - been doing some more digging into the fuel system - you mentioned taht you probably went the more expensive route but I'm not sure?? I could be missing something but here is what I came up with below

The below is using a BOYD WELDING Aluminum tank as the starting point for both systems

GM MU2101 Setup - Returnless system, no regulator, no added filter
1- Boyd Tank with MU2101 flange - $650
2-MU2102 fuel pump- $215
3- Vapor Worx Controller - $429
total roughly $1,300

Aremotive Setup
1- Boyd Tank with Aremotive 340 Pump - $820
2-Aremotive Regulator - $200
3-Aremotive Fuel Filter - $110
4- Misc Fitting for all that - $50
5- Return Line - $50
Total - $1,230

What am i missing on the above?? Seems like the MU2101 isnt really that much more expensive and is probably more reliable ?

thoughts

Yes the cost is really close, why use an aftermarket pump? Cost difference is the tank for me. I have maybe $300 into it. That is new tank, ring, crossmembers and skid plate.

[Richard]

Originally Posted by cj847

Have checked out Tanks Inc website. I have found their prices competitive.

I wonder why you want a return less system. It is easy to use a return system by putting a 99 Corvette filter/regulator near the tank. The filter has a built in regulator and return.

I mentioned above some of the benefits over this type of system. You are basically putting a heater in your fuel tank for no reason.

[cj847]

Originally Posted by 6600DURAMAX

Just talked to Blueprint engines - for this 408 - they recommend 340LPH and 60 psi

Looks like the corvette filter/regulator is only rated at 255 LPH - do they make a higher rated one or is it best to just go with Aremotive, Holley or like brands ......?

Can the regulator and filter be mounted back toward the tank to limit the return line distance?

That was the one concern I had. I am not familiar with the aftermarket regulators, so I can't comment.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by cj847

That was the one concern I had. I am not familiar with the aftermarket regulators, so I can't comment.

Those Corvette set-ups (filter/regulator/return units) are mounted near the tanks (mid car) so it makes sense to replicate if used on something different.

[LS short box]

I've used the Corvette FFR on a number of swaps. Never had a issue. My LS6 swapped 98 Wrangler has a 255 Walbro and Corvette FFR and has been in over 14 years with zero issues.
On my 68 C10 ls swap I used a Tanks Inc 69 Camaro efi tank (Fills behind the liecene plate) and 255 Walbro. Worked well.
I did a LS2 stroked to 427 cubes in a 67 Nova. 500 rwhp and used -6 lines/255 Walbro lines and it worked great. No fuel starvation issues.

[Joyridin]

Originally Posted by Richard

I mentioned above some of the benefits over this type of system. You are basically putting a heater in your fuel tank for no reason.

That is incorrect. Return style systems actually cool the fuel by keeping it circulated.

https://www.onallcylinders.com/2017/...m-right-video/

[Richard]

Originally Posted by Joyridin

That is incorrect. Return style systems actually cool the fuel by keeping it circulated.

https://www.onallcylinders.com/2017/...m-right-video/

Obviously I disagree. Sorry, that article does nothing for me. A pump running full tilt all the time creates more heat. Heat will be transferred to the fuel.
Unless you are running a heat exchanger (cooler) in the fuel line the fuel will continually warm up. Article actually states some positives that I said as well.
A pwm fuel pump will maintain constant pressure while providing the amount of fuel the motor needs. It is more energy efficient and runs at a lower speed most of the time creating less heat.
The main reason the pwm style fuel systems are not sold and adopted by the big names is loss of sales. Aftermarket does not make pwm pumps and you only need a controller, factory pump and one fuel line.
If you go the standard way they can sell you a pump, regulator, more fuel line and fittings + a filter.
Just trying to show there are other options.