Urgent, need opinions on my new crate engine

[FirstOwner69]

The 350/330 HP Deluxe is what I have in my 69 C20. I think you'll like it. I've only put about 250 miles on mine So, to some extent the jury is still out.

Read mechanicalman's post #69 carefully as he's pretty much covered everything I learned. It addition, the engine comes with a long water pump and a 153 tooth flexplate. You'll need to replace the pump with a short pump if you are running original pulleys. You may need to replace the flexplate with a 168 tooth version depending on your starter. If you want to run an original temperature sensor in the original location in the head (most folks have had problems getting one that reads properly), forum member brian mac machines the originals to 3/8" NPT. Here's a link with some discussion on this topic and his contact info http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=627880. If you have factory A/C, in addition to the bypass mechanicalman mentioned, you will need to fabricate some brackets/braces to properly tie the top compressor to the intake/engine. I have pictures showing what I did and a pattern for one of the brackets if you need them. All other accessories should bolt right on.

Incidentally, my engine came with a 670 CFM carb, not the 600 mentioned by Summit. There have been at least 4 different part numbers for this engine package. The earlier ones had the 600 and many sellers never updated the description as it evolved. If you want to run a steel fuel line from the pump to the carb, I can look in my file for info of what I found that worked with very minor tweaking. I THINK it was one designed for the 1968 Camaro Z28.

I also have a phone number for a performance hotline that is staffed by very knowledgeable people if you need it.

Edit: Additional thought. If you don't currently have an HEI distributor you'll need to replace the resistor wire that ran to the coil with a regular 12 gauge wire.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by FirstOwner69

The 350/330 HP Deluxe is what I have in my 69 C20. I think you'll like it. I've only put about 250 miles on mine So, to some extent the jury is still out.

Read mechanicalman's post #69 carefully as he's pretty much covered everything I learned. It addition, the engine comes with a long water pump and a 153 tooth flexplate. You'll need to replace the pump with a short pump if you are running original pulleys. You may need to replace the flexplate with a 168 tooth version depending on your starter. If you want to run an original temperature sensor in the original location in the head (most folks have had problems getting one that reads properly), forum member brian mac machines the originals to 3/8" NPT. Here's a link with some discussion on this topic and his contact info http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=627880. If you have factory A/C, in addition to the bypass mechanicalman mentioned, you will need to fabricate some brackets/braces to properly tie the top compressor to the intake/engine. I have pictures showing what I did and a pattern for one of the brackets if you need them. All other accessories should bolt right on.

Incidentally, my engine came with a 670 CFM carb, not the 600 mentioned by Summit. There have been at least 4 different part numbers for this engine package. The earlier ones had the 600 and many sellers never updated the description as it evolved. If you want to run a steel fuel line from the pump to the carb, I can look in my file for info of what I found that worked with very minor tweaking. I THINK it was one designed for the 1968 Camaro Z28.

I also have a phone number for a performance hotline that is staffed by very knowledgeable people if you need it.

Doh! Forgot about the a/c compressor bracket. So, did you make a bracket that bolts to the 2 passenger side intake bolts, using longer intake bolts, that has an ear sticking up for the adjuster arm?

What about the front a/c bracket on the passenger side head? I assume it needs a hole drilled to match the different pattern on the Vortec head?

After reading the link about turning down the temp sensor to 3/8 NPT, I'm wondering if the 3/8" temp sensor I recommended will work? It's made to GM spec, but have they changed the resistance spec over the years? It would seem the one for the idiot light would have to work but a possible problem on the gauge sensor.

Probably best to turn the known good sensor down to the proper size and re-thread, as long as it does not machine through to the innards of the sensor. Or if the old sensor will screw into the intake manifold, I've done that before and it gives a good sample of the temp.

[Lattimer]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

Doh! Forgot about the a/c compressor bracket. So, did you make a bracket that bolts to the 2 passenger side intake bolts, using longer intake bolts, that has an ear sticking up for the adjuster arm?

What about the front a/c bracket on the passenger side head? I assume it needs a hole drilled to match the different pattern on the Vortec head?

After reading the link about turning down the temp sensor to 3/8 NPT, I'm wondering if the 3/8" temp sensor I recommended will work? It's made to GM spec, but have they changed the resistance spec over the years? It would seem the one for the idiot light would have to work but a possible problem on the gauge sensor.

Probably best to turn the known good sensor down to the proper size and re-thread, as long as it does not machine through to the innards of the sensor. Or if the old sensor will screw into the intake manifold, I've done that before and it gives a good sample of the temp.

I wound up getting the original type temp sensor and putting it in the manifold. It was off scale (I don't remember which direction), so I wound up searching on here and found where others installed an in line resistor to make the gauge read correctly. Apparently even the "correct" new temp sensors don't always play well with our gauges.

[1972BlueC20]

Originally Posted by FirstOwner69

The 350/330 HP Deluxe is what I have in my 69 C20. I think you'll like it. I've only put about 250 miles on mine So, to some extent the jury is still out.

Read mechanicalman's post #69 carefully as he's pretty much covered everything I learned. It addition, the engine comes with a long water pump and a 153 tooth flexplate. You'll need to replace the pump with a short pump if you are running original pulleys. You may need to replace the flexplate with a 168 tooth version depending on your starter. If you want to run an original temperature sensor in the original location in the head (most folks have had problems getting one that reads properly), forum member brian mac machines the originals to 3/8" NPT. Here's a link with some discussion on this topic and his contact info http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=627880. If you have factory A/C, in addition to the bypass mechanicalman mentioned, you will need to fabricate some brackets/braces to properly tie the top compressor to the intake/engine. I have pictures showing what I did and a pattern for one of the brackets if you need them. All other accessories should bolt right on.

Incidentally, my engine came with a 670 CFM carb, not the 600 mentioned by Summit. There have been at least 4 different part numbers for this engine package. The earlier ones had the 600 and many sellers never updated the description as it evolved. If you want to run a steel fuel line from the pump to the carb, I can look in my file for info of what I found that worked with very minor tweaking. I THINK it was one designed for the 1968 Camaro Z28.

I also have a phone number for a performance hotline that is staffed by very knowledgeable people if you need it.

Edit: Additional thought. If you don't currently have an HEI distributor you'll need to replace the resistor wire that ran to the coil with a regular 12 gauge wire.

Really great info man!

I really appreciate that.

As for the sensor, I don't have gauges just the idiot lights.....do I still have this same sensor issue?

Also, I was told the engine does not come with any water pump....I already have a brand new short high volume pump....I guess If it does come with one I can try to sell the long one...

[1972BlueC20]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

That engine needs a thermostat by-pass hose. PLEASE don't let ANYONE talk you into drilling holes in the thermostat, this makes your engine take longer to warm up. Bypass hose will NOT make the engine take longer to warm up as it goes back to the water pump (not cooled by the radiator) or the cold side of the radiator ready to be sucked into the water pump.

where does the thermostat bypass hose go?? Can you send me a picture of an example?

Hopefully my mechanic will know all this already and I shouldn't have to say anything, but I will give him the heads up about the temp sensor and the bypass and see what he says then report back.....

[Hugh Mongus]

You will definitely like the engine with vortec heads better. You made a solid choice. I look forward to hearing your thoughts after you drive it.

[FirstOwner69]

Here are 4 pictures that show the bypass, A/C intake bracket and 2 braces. The intake bracket is based on the original older style that was used on my 69. The front brace is similar to those used on the mid-60s cars. Doing the bypass in this fashion required a spacer under the thermostat housing.

[Lee H]

Great engine choice, you will really like it.

Another option for your temp sensor, It's very easy to drill and tap the head or intake for your original or original replacement sensor. A well equipped shop can do this in about 10 minutes.

[FirstOwner69]

A couple other comments.

I don't recall you saying if you have A/C with the heater shutoff valve. If not, I'm almost positive you don't need the bypass hose.

In the pictures I posted above, you can also see the fuel line I mentioned in post #76.

If you are still using the factory breather setup, you will probably have to slightly modify the "collar" where the breather hose attaches at the carburetor end. It caused the butterfly on my carb to bind. If needed, I can post a couple pictures a the very simple modification I made to the collar.

[1972BlueC20]

Originally Posted by FirstOwner69

A couple other comments.

I don't recall you saying if you have A/C with the heater shutoff valve. If not, I'm almost positive you don't need the bypass hose.

In the pictures I posted above, you can also see the fuel line I mentioned in post #76.

If you are still using the factory breather setup, you will probably have to slightly modify the "collar" where the breather hose attaches at the carburetor end. It caused the butterfly on my carb to bind. If needed, I can post a couple pictures a the very simple modification I made to the collar.

I don't have A/C, just heater. If you find out for sure let me know if I need the bypass or not....the engine instructions say it's needed and doesn't mention anything about A/C or no A/C

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by 1972BlueC20

I don't have A/C, just heater. If you find out for sure let me know if I need the bypass or not....the engine instructions say it's needed and doesn't mention anything about A/C or no A/C

Before the thermostat opens, if no coolant is flowing (just sitting still and creating hot pocket) across the top of the heads, multiple steam pockets form, enough air will remain in the system to allow the thermostat to sit in open air, then it will not open and the engine will overheat and head cracking is common from just the steam pockets, let alone the ensuing overheating.

Let me break it down simple: You need coolant flowing from the upper part of the engine below the thermostat when the thermostat is closed to keep steam pockets from developing from stagnant coolant sitting still on top of the hot heads. ANY hose coming off the top of the intake going to the suction side of the water pump will keep the coolant moving and prevent steam pockets from developing. The heater circuit will do this, if you don't shut it off with a water valve.

With no heater valve and coolant flowing all the time from the top of the intake through the heater core to the water pump (like you said it does )you do not need a bypass hose.

I said that if you by-passed your heater core you could damage your engine, but now that I think about it that would be only if you plugged the hoses. If you looped the 3/4" outlet hose from the top of the intake (heater supply) and adapted it down to 5/8" and connected it directly to the water pump heater intake, that would be a good bypass system.

So, consider not having a bypass hose but if you do carry a 3/4" to 5/8" heater hose adaptor in your glove box for emergency IF YOUR HEATER CORE BLOWS A LEAK.

But if you ever add a/c, and install a heater valve (aftermarket systems do that), again you will need a bypass hose.

The instructions HAVE to say you need a bypass hose and they cannot get into the complexities of a/c or no a/c. But the fact of the matter is, a heater running off the intake manifold to the suction side of the water pump IS YOUR BYPASS HOSE if flow is allow un-interrupted.

[Lattimer]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

Before the thermostat opens, if no coolant is flowing (just sitting still and creating hot pocket) across the top of the heads, multiple steam pockets form, enough air will remain in the system to allow the thermostat to sit in open air, then it will not open and the engine will overheat and head cracking is common from just the steam pockets, let alone the ensuing overheating.

Let me break it down simple: You need coolant flowing from the upper part of the engine below the thermostat when the thermostat is closed to keep steam pockets from developing from stagnant coolant sitting still on top of the hot heads. ANY hose coming off the top of the intake going to the suction side of the water pump will keep the coolant moving and prevent steam pockets from developing. The heater circuit will do this, if you don't shut it off with a water valve.

With no heater valve and coolant flowing all the time from the top of the intake through the heater core to the water pump (like you said it does )you do not need a bypass hose.

I said that if you by-passed your heater core you could damage your engine, but now that I think about it that would be only if you plugged the hoses. If you looped the 3/4" outlet hose from the top of the intake (heater supply) and adapted it down to 5/8" and connected it directly to the water pump heater intake, that would be a good bypass system.

So, consider not having a bypass hose but if you do carry a 3/4" to 5/8" heater hose adaptor in your glove box for emergency IF YOUR HEATER CORE BLOWS A LEAK.

But if you ever add a/c, and install a heater valve (aftermarket systems do that), again you will need a bypass hose.

The instructions HAVE to say you need a bypass hose and they cannot get into the complexities of a/c or no a/c. But the fact of the matter is, a heater running off the intake manifold to the suction side of the water pump IS YOUR BYPASS HOSE if flow is allow un-interrupted.

I've always just popped a hole in the t-stat to do the same thing. Truck warms up a little slower like was mentioned earlier, but its not a daily driver so no issues for me.

[dfrank]

Originally Posted by Lattimer

I've always just popped a hole in the t-stat to do the same thing. Truck warms up a little slower like was mentioned earlier, but its not a daily driver so no issues for me.

Thats what I do. I drill one 1/8th" hole in the t-stat and haven't had any problems with my 383 stroker. It was recommended to me by a long time engine builder and has worked for him for many years.

[1972BlueC20]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

But the fact of the matter is, a heater running off the intake manifold to the suction side of the water pump IS YOUR BYPASS HOSE if flow is allow un-interrupted.

So since I have the hoses running from the intake to the heater core and then back into the waterpump I don't need to worry about the coolant bypass?

Also on another note, this new engine comes with a holley 670 carb. I know Edelbrock likes 5.5-6 PSI of fuel max. Does Holley require a max PSI?

I already had ordered a Edelbrock mechanical pump to use with the 290 HP engine because I was going to use my 1406 carb....would that still be a good fuel pump to use for the Holley or should I get another fuel pump? If so, suggestions??

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by 1972BlueC20

So since I have the hoses running from the intake to the heater core and then back into the waterpump I don't need to worry about the coolant bypass?

Also on another note, this new engine comes with a holley 670 carb. I know Edelbrock likes 5.5-6 PSI of fuel max. Does Holley require a max PSI?

I already had ordered a Edelbrock mechanical pump to use with the 290 HP engine because I was going to use my 1406 carb....would that still be a good fuel pump to use for the Holley or should I get another fuel pump? If so, suggestions??

That is correct. Keep your thermostat bypass (your heater circuit) flowing coolant and you will be OK. I do advise you to get a 5/8" to 3/4" heater hose adaptor and keep it in your glove box in case you ever blow a leak in your heater core OR heater hose so you can keep that circuit intact by running the intake manifold hose to the suction side of the water pump.
http://www.autozone.com/fasteners/he...or/102831_0_0/
If you don't want it rattling around in your glove box, get a zip-tie and fasten it to one of the heater hoses.

Yes, that would still be a good fuel pump.

[1972BlueC20]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

That is correct. Keep your thermostat bypass (your heater circuit) flowing coolant and you will be OK. I do advise you to get a 5/8" to 3/4" heater hose adaptor and keep it in your glove box in case you ever blow a leak in your heater core OR heater hose so you can keep that circuit intact by running the intake manifold hose to the suction side of the water pump.
http://www.autozone.com/fasteners/he...or/102831_0_0/
If you don't want it rattling around in your glove box, get a zip-tie and fasten it to one of the heater hoses.

Yes, that would still be a good fuel pump.

Cool deal, thanks all your help!

Is this adapter something that could be used for the temp sensor??

http://www.zoro.com/i/G1040681/?utm_...m_campaign=PLA

Also, I just found out that the engine

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/nal-19210008

Comes with the intake NOT INSTALLED!

Can you believe, for $4K and it's not pre installed....not a big deal if I was doing the swap myself, but my truck and the engine is at my mechanics shop and I can't go install it myself....so now I have to pay him to install the intake....

[FirstOwner69]

Originally Posted by 1972BlueC20

Cool deal, thanks all your help!

Is this adapter something that could be used for the temp sensor??

http://www.zoro.com/i/G1040681/?utm_...m_campaign=PLA

Also, I just found out that the engine

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/nal-19210008

Comes with the intake NOT INSTALLED!

Can you believe, for $4K and it's not pre installed....not a big deal if I was doing the swap myself, but my truck and the engine is at my mechanics shop and I can't go install it myself....so now I have to pay him to install the intake....

I have read in other temp sensor threads that using an adapter is not the best solution. I think it is due to the fact that the adapter places the sensing plug out of the coolant flow.


My engine came completely assembled as you can see in the picture below. As I said in a previous post, these engines have gone through at least 4 part numbers which may account for the changes (no water pump and not completely assembled). Fuel pump and starter were the only things not included.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by FirstOwner69

I have read in other temp sensor threads that using an adapter is not the best solution. I think it is due to the fact that the adapter places the sensing plug out of the coolant flow.


My engine came completely assembled as you can see in the picture below. As I said in a previous post, these engines have gone through at least 4 part numbers which may account for the changes (no water pump and not completely assembled). Fuel pump and starter were the only things not included.

Hey FirstOwner69 I have a question for you on behalf of 1972BlueC20: The threaded hole on the top of the intake manifold on the driver's side-is it 1/2" NPT or 5/8" NPT?

If it's 1/2" NPT then 72Blue could put his coolant sensor there.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by 1972BlueC20

Cool deal, thanks all your help!

Is this adapter something that could be used for the temp sensor??

http://www.zoro.com/i/G1040681/?utm_...m_campaign=PLA

Also, I just found out that the engine

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/nal-19210008

Comes with the intake NOT INSTALLED!

Can you believe, for $4K and it's not pre installed....not a big deal if I was doing the swap myself, but my truck and the engine is at my mechanics shop and I can't go install it myself....so now I have to pay him to install the intake....

I don't think that adaptor will work, when you screw it in there it will bottom out I believe 99% sure.

Do you have a temp gauge or a temp light?

[1972BlueC20]

Originally Posted by FirstOwner69

I have read in other temp sensor threads that using an adapter is not the best solution. I think it is due to the fact that the adapter places the sensing plug out of the coolant flow.


My engine came completely assembled as you can see in the picture below. As I said in a previous post, these engines have gone through at least 4 part numbers which may account for the changes (no water pump and not completely assembled). Fuel pump and starter were the only things not included.

Wow that is a beautiful engine man!!

Where did you order it from? And what was the part number when you ordered it?

Did it even come with that EGR block off plate already?

[1972BlueC20]

Originally Posted by FirstOwner69

I have read in other temp sensor threads that using an adapter is not the best solution. I think it is due to the fact that the adapter places the sensing plug out of the coolant flow.


My engine came completely assembled as you can see in the picture below. As I said in a previous post, these engines have gone through at least 4 part numbers which may account for the changes (no water pump and not completely assembled). Fuel pump and starter were the only things not included.

Also I see the dipstick is missing....was it just not installed for shipping or was it not included?

[Hugh Mongus]

Originally Posted by 1972BlueC20

I was going to use my 1406 carb....would that still be a good fuel pump to use for the Holley or should I get another fuel pump? If so, suggestions??

You are going to lose performance with that carb.

[Hugh Mongus]

Originally Posted by 1972BlueC20

Also I see the dipstick is missing....was it just not installed for shipping or was it not included?

My crate did not come with a dipstick. I had to buy one at the local parts house.

[1972BlueC20]

Originally Posted by Hugh Mongus

You are going to lose performance with that carb.

nah I meant I was going to use the 1406 carb on the 290 HP engine since it didn't come with a carb, but on this one I will use the Holley 670 CFM

what was the part number on your crate when you bought it? And did yours come with a EGR block off plate?

[FirstOwner69]

Originally Posted by 1972BlueC20

Wow that is a beautiful engine man!!

Where did you order it from? And what was the part number when you ordered it?

Did it even come with that EGR block off plate already?

Dipstick was included, just not installed. Goes on passenger side. Oil filter was included also.

EGR blockoff was included and installed.

I bought it in 2010 from a place on ebay in Kalamazoo, MI, that was a clearing house of sorts for excess GM inventory. They had 8 of them with a couple different part numbers. I talked to someone at performance parts tech support about the differences in the part numbers and was told the number I ended up buying (#19201329) had lighter pistons and one or two other changes. One of which may have been the 670 CFM carb instead of the 650 used on the earlier versions. They also told me they'd only made 8 of that version and recommended it.

I painted it orange, installed aluminum valve covers, an aluminum air cleaner top, and a dark air cleaner element to give it more of a custom look. I also installed the valve covers so the oil fill, PCV, and breather tube were in the original orientation for our trucks. Here's a picture of the installation.

EDIT: Looking at the picture reminds me of a couple other things. Don't forget return springs for the carb. The original throttle rod worked but I had to put a slight bend in it due to the mounting of a Lokar kickdown switch for the TH400. I think you said yours is a TH350 so your kickdown is a different animal. I didn't use the red plug wires that came with the engine as they didn't work with the ram horns. Plug wires are for a 76 or 78 Corvette.