47-59 V8 Camshaft Durability

[Jemezcrusher]

I sold some stuff yesterday to a guy and we talked about cams. I am gathering parts for my 350 build and he told me he would not build an SBC with a hydraulic flat tappet cam. This guy has been building motors for 40 years so he is not a new kid on the block. His claim is that the manufacturers are all using china to make their lifters and with todays oils geared toward modern engines with roller cams there are a lot of failures. I have not heard much about this and don't know if this guy is overreacting

I am not building a drag racer but want a good, reliable 300 HP motor that will last. Not that hard to put in zinc additive and hydraulic roller valve train will really drive the cost.

Would appreciate input

Jemez

Hey-mez

[jwhotrod]

there was a great deal of failure with flat tappet cams in the middle 90's when the EPA made the oil manufacturers remove the ZDDP from the oil (high friction modifiers) because it was killing catalytic converters. hence all the car mfgrs went to roller cams in production cars. that said if you use a racing oil like Penn Grade or Driven which still has the ZDDP in it you can use a flat tappet cam. There is also a great deal of concern with which distributor gear to use with a roller cam. bronze gears are too soft for street use, and steel gears are too hard. Melanized gears seem to be the correct choice in most applications but check with your engine builder or cam manufacture for sure.

[leegreen]

try this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMFikj-TAqo

I learned stuff, other than that I am no expert. Some of the things he mentioned would be easy enough to measure yourself

[geezer#99]

There are coated lifters available so you can decrease the chance of failure.


https://grudgemotorsports.com/produc...p-cams-812d-16

[mr48chev]

That has been a battle for a while. A lot of the flathead or old engine guys run Shell Rotella oil rather than the newer blends. That is what is used in a big percentage of the older farm tractors and equipment around the country and probably the world.

There are replacement additives for ZDDP available.

It seems that a lot of guys who are having lifter/cam issues are having it right at start up and break in time though. A lot of that with Chevy small blocks and I am wondering if valve spring pressure might be part of the issue.

[1project2many]

I can't speak to the "China" lifters. Companies will provide the country of origin for most parts, if asked. A search for "SBC lifters made in usa" gives some good results:

Clay Smith Cams:
https://claysmithcams.com/chevrolet-...aulic-lifters/

Chevrolet Performance lifters:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/n...1044?rrec=true
(These have a distinct line around the bottom, which I was taught years ago shows the "hardened" foot.)

Comp Cams:
https://www.amazon.com/Competition-C...000CISAAW?th=1
(Pictures also show the "hardened" foot.)


Phosphorous is the component in ZDDP that provides anti-wear characteristics. Most diesel oils in a 40 weight are not subject to the Zinc restrictions. Many racing oils also have higher levels of Extreme Pressure lubricant. STP has an additive that will provide significant ZDDP increases.

For my older vehicles with flat tappets, I have some favorite oils. One quart of Delvac 15W40 plus four quarts of 30wt Non-Detergent ends up in my '36 Plymouth and it's been working for years. The '57 gets Delo or Motorcraft 10W-30 diesel oil. Both engines were built long before the current arguments over lifter quality which may be part of the success.

[dsraven]

just be aware that if you choose to use a high detergent oil, like diesel oils, that is fine in a newer engine but if a lurker is taking this to heart and uses it in an older engine he may find he has an oil burner soon because it washes out any deposits that have been helping the rings seal etc. I've seen it a few times where the heavy duty mechanic apprentice, who lives on a shoe string budget, "borrows" oil from the lube truck to do service on his own old vehicle. the lube truck is full of oil for the heavy equipment, so diesel oil, soon it's a smoker and gets told why.

[mr48chev]

We ran shell Rotella in every rig on the dairy that I worked on from the new IH tractor to the old Oliver tractor and everyting in between without issies.

I did see a lot of that put high detergent oil in an old engine with a lot of miles on it and it would start burning oil for that reason though as it had been run on straight 30 weight non detergent since the day it was new and changed at ever 1 or 2 thousand miles.

I even rebuilt a couple of those engines in high school auto shop as a student when they were brought in because all the sudden they burned a lot of oil not longer after a schoolmate had bought it. One had the rods and mains wiped out. A mid 50's older person driven car that the kid's dad insisted on buying for the kid because It "had never been driven out of town and had always been taken care of" YUppers, that car got oil changes every 1K and filters at 2 K and a tune up at 10 K but the person/people who drove it never put enough miles on it at one time to warm the engine up and heat the condensation in the crankcase up enough to have it exit via the draft tube and it never exited via the draft tube because the car never got over 25 Mph. One very honestly went to church twice a week, Safeway for groceries, the beauty shop across from Safeway once a week and the funeral home and it's out of town trips were two miles to the cemetary in the next town over.

The kid's dad had a fit because he blew the engine up about two weeks after getting the car. First saturday after he bought it they drained the oil and put high detergent oil in it. Drive it to school and back for a couple of weeks and decide to go to Yakima to cruise the Ave on Friday night and blew the engine up on the way back at between 50 and 60 miles an hour. A couple of guys were behind him and drug him home with a tow chain. The old man had a fit and fell in it but when we pulled the pan the sludge was so deep and thick that there were channels where the rods had gone through the sludge. The oil pump pickup was plugged solid. We sent the crank out to be turned at the machine shop, resized the rods and did the rest of the work on the engine in the school shop and put the engine together. That made a pretty nice little car out of it.

[dsraven]

there are roller kits for flat tapet replacements if interested

[Jemezcrusher]

Don't you have to have the lifter bores enlarged for the roller lifters in a non roller block?

[Rickysnickers]

No. There are roller lifters out there that retrofit into a non-roller block. No machining required.

[dsraven]

they look like this, they will need a camshaft to match of course.
https://www.compcams.com/retro-fit-h...all-block.html

and a little info
https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/cc...y-small-block/

[burnin oil]

I have run delvac 15w40 diesel in my SBC since I built it about 10 years ago. She was my daily before I retired. Flat tappets are still there. If you are running a solid lifter they make them with added EDM holes that oil the cam face as it runs. I used those and this is an 8k RPM motor that used to see a ton of stop and go traffic. Think concert traffic.

[mr48chev]

Chevrolet performance shows two flat tappet Hydraulic cams in their catalog.
The second one is the one that comes in their 350 HO crate motors. List on the cam is 193.39 and the 12371044 lifters have a list of 192.52 but a lot of the GM performance dealers have better prices as do Summit or other speed goodie vendors. Or if you have a buddy working the parts counter at a Chevy dealer who will give a buddy deal or a buddy who buys from the dealer who gets a good discount who can pick it up for you.

Side note from back in the day. Back in the early 70's when I worked in the Pontiac dealership in waco Tx we could charge parts from the parts counter and get like a 10% discount. But if we paid cash the parts guys would write the ticket up in the name of a Gypo used car lot down on Franklin Avenue who probably bought 1000 bucks worth of parts in a good year but had a CASH account. The boss probably gave him a bottle of good Bourbon ever Christmas as a thank you for buying a bunch of parts. He got about a 30% discount.