Moderninzing an 82 C10 - Tips/Recommendations

[sk8rgui]

I've had my grandfather's 82 C10 shortbed (350) for about a decade now. I've slowly done a bit of work to it: replaced headliner, replaced carpets, fixed old worn out door panels and replaced the Quadrajet with an Edlebrock 1406 Carb (just easier for me to tune).

I'm looking to start really putting some money in it to fix it up and make it more convenient to drive. Not necessarily a daily driver, but more than the 6-800 miles a year I'm currently putting on it. My main goals are to make it a bit more comfortable to drive, improve gas mileage, improve noise in the cab. I'd like to eventually go on longer trips with a small light weight camper (popup/teardrop). Say 1000 miles or so (Missouri to Colorado).

Below is my list of ideas to do on it. Any thoughts/recommendations on what else would make this thing better to drive would be great. Any recommendations on any parts for list below would be great.

• switch from turbo 350 to 700 R4 transmission with lockup
• serpentine conversion kit - looking at the Holley Complete Mid Mount as an option
• switch to aluminum radiator and electric fans
• LED or Projector headlights
• LED Taillights
• Swap the cluster or do the tach conversion kit
• Swap the intake to a Edelbrock Performer (need to research how this affects mpg).
• Fix the factory AC, Compressor died a year or two back
• Rebuild the suspension, not sure with what yet. Something to make it feel less like driving a log truck (sway bar kit, upgrade control arms, new shocks, etc?)
• add sound deadening to the insides. It's loud at 70mph on the highway (4 speed transmission will help this some).
• potentially add cats and a muffler to help with noise (currently straight pipes to glass packs).

I've thought about the EFI system from Edlebrock... but everything I read about EFI seems like a bit of a pain to get working properly. I also kinda like the tuneability of a carburetor. Ideally, I'd like to get from 11-12 mpg to closer to 20mpg... that may be a bit hard to do though.

I don't know my gearing in any of my current setup. My grandfather swapped the 305 4 speed to a 350 3 speed years ago. He's been gone since 2003. He did tow a big camper with it though.

Thanks in advanced

[Ziegelsteinfaust]

Compression. Both static and dynamic are 2 of the biggest factors to gas mileage

A low compression 350 will be hard pressed to get above 17. Depending on what you want a a desmogged 95+ Vortec with the msd fuel injection would be a good candidate. Besides the LS option.

Personally I would do a 4L65E for better control of the throttle valve which is done electronically.

[Dead Parrot]

From a comfort standpoint, the best thing I did in my 75 C10 was install bucket seats. The OEM bench seats in mine were very bouncy. Down side to buckets is they are often thicker/higher then the OEM bench. I think there are a couple different levels of bench seat quality.

On noise: new door/window rubber all the way around. New door hinges/hinge pins/bushings. Make sure the door striker has the plastic around the shaft. I still need to do the sound deadening in mine.

Exhaust: Full length pipes that exit out behind the rear bumper. Unless you need the cats for emissions, just go with a good set of turbo type mufflers.

Suspension: The OEM suspension isn't bad. Mine does have the front sway bar. After having a shop go over and replace things that needed replacing, it drove and handled much better.

Headlights: whatever you do, make sure the result doesn't blind on coming drivers. Turning that oncoming 5000lb vehicle into an unguided missile with a planned miss of 6 feet doesn't really improve your safety.

Performer manifold: didn't see a noticeable change in MPG but it looks nicer then the old iron manifold.

Carb: if your Colorado spot is several thousand feet up, check the tune chart on the 1406 for a rod swap as you climb. It will likely suggest a different set of jets but you can swap rods without taking the top off, unlike jets. Plus the rod swap is a 10 minute job.

Don't over think the MPG thing. If you drive it 5000 miles, at 10 mpg that is 500 gallons. If you did manage to get to 20 mpg, that would still be 250 gallons. More likely you might manage to go from 12 mpg to 15. Do the math before spending a lot of money.

What rear end ratio is currently in it? A lot of 80s trucks had 3.08 or 2.73 that won't benefit a lot from an overdrive trans and may actually make things worse.

[sk8rgui]

Originally Posted by Ziegelsteinfaust

Compression. Both static and dynamic are 2 of the biggest factors to gas mileage

A low compression 350 will be hard pressed to get above 17. Depending on what you want a a desmogged 95+ Vortec with the msd fuel injection would be a good candidate. Besides the LS option.

Personally I would do a 4L65E for better control of the throttle valve which is done electronically.

Isn’t there quite a bit more electronics with the Vortecs? I thought it was a bit more involved than the old TBI engines. I may be wrong though.

[sk8rgui]

Originally Posted by Dead Parrot

From a comfort standpoint, the best thing I did in my 75 C10 was install bucket seats. The OEM bench seats in mine were very bouncy. Down side to buckets is they are often thicker/higher then the OEM bench. I think there are a couple different levels of bench seat quality.

On noise: new door/window rubber all the way around. New door hinges/hinge pins/bushings. Make sure the door striker has the plastic around the shaft. I still need to do the sound deadening in mine.

Exhaust: Full length pipes that exit out behind the rear bumper. Unless you need the cats for emissions, just go with a good set of turbo type mufflers.

Suspension: The OEM suspension isn't bad. Mine does have the front sway bar. After having a shop go over and replace things that needed replacing, it drove and handled much better.

Headlights: whatever you do, make sure the result doesn't blind on coming drivers. Turning that oncoming 5000lb vehicle into an unguided missile with a planned miss of 6 feet doesn't really improve your safety.

Performer manifold: didn't see a noticeable change in MPG but it looks nicer then the old iron manifold.

Carb: if your Colorado spot is several thousand feet up, check the tune chart on the 1406 for a rod swap as you climb. It will likely suggest a different set of jets but you can swap rods without taking the top off, unlike jets. Plus the rod swap is a 10 minute job.

Don't over think the MPG thing. If you drive it 5000 miles, at 10 mpg that is 500 gallons. If you did manage to get to 20 mpg, that would still be 250 gallons. More likely you might manage to go from 12 mpg to 15. Do the math before spending a lot of money.

What rear end ratio is currently in it? A lot of 80s trucks had 3.08 or 2.73 that won't benefit a lot from an overdrive trans and may actually make things worse.

The bench seat is ok, as I get older it’s less comfortable, but my wife really enjoy riding next to me (I do too).

Just replaced the rubber in the windows and the vent windows. It helped a lot. I need to do the rear sliding window too. I still have the plastic door striker. The door seem to shut great on my truck.

I know I need to do some work to the front suspension and that it would probably help out quite a bit in terms of feel/comfort. Starting to get a bit of bearing noise, so bare minimum those need repacked. More than likely their is play elsewhere too.

Not sure what the rear end ratio is on it. I need to figure out how to check that.

[geezer#99]

How to figure your rear gears.



https://shiftsst.com/blog/post/how-t...xle-ratio.html

[Nick_R_23]

A few suggestions -

If you’re planning cross country trips, your two biggest improvements will be EFI and Overdrive.

EFI - In my opinion, the best current “bolt on” EFI kit is the Edelbrock Pro Flo 4. I believe this is the most user friendly, and needs the least amount of fiddling to perform well. Keep in mind that EFI always goes hand in hand with upgrading your fuel system, so you will have to budget for some type of tank/pump/line upgrade. I would personally recommend the Holley drop-in module with their Hydramat, as this is also a very user friendly system and eliminates the need to upgrade to a baffled tank or add a return line, and the factory steel hardline can be reused with EFI rated rubber hose and proper clamps.

Transmission: You’re on the right path with the transmission. A 700R4 is a good upgrade by itself, but in many cases, EFI opens up the door to electronic transmissions (due to the addition of a TPS), such as the 4L60E or 4L80E. However, this usually involves an external transmission controller or an EFI kit with transmission control capabilities. As stated by others, you will also likely need to change your rear end gear. 3.73 or 4.10 are good choices with an overdrive transmission, depending on your Highway RPM goals and tire size.

Serpentine Conversion: Skip the Holley kit and simply purchase a factory serpentine assembly from a 1990-1995 Chevy truck with TBI. Most of the time these parts are cheap to free. You will need the passenger side bracket that houses the A/C pump, the drivers side bracket that houses the alternator and power steering pump, the crank pulley, the reverse rotation water pump/pulley/and clutch fan, and of course snag the alternator and power steering pump if possible, as the new style alternator will work with your C10 harness by using a simple wiring adapter available for around $10, giving you a factory 105A alternator.

Electric Fans: Many of the EFI kits have the capability to control electric fans, which is another plus of having EFI. Otherwise, you’ll need an external controller.

LED headlights/taillights: LED headlights are an easy upgrade. You can either purchase an H4 conversion housing and install an H4 socket LED bulb, or there are assembled conversion housings which also work well. LED tail lights (and turn signals) are typically a no-go on these trucks due to the alternating ground style of wiring used on them, it is not LED friendly.

Suspension: You can find a local spring shop that can build a new set of springs for your truck, at any GVW rating you choose. I would also recommend upgrading to a quality GAS CHARGED shock at this time. You can also add air assist bags in the rear paired with a lighter spring - this will retain the load carrying capability of your truck when required, and allow a softer ride when no load is present. Keep in mind, the suspension will always ride better with a load, such as your camper.

Exhaust: I would highly recommend a stock style exhaust in this case - Y-pipe with 3” outlet, a high flow catalytic converter, and an 18” body length flow through style muffler (stay away from chambered designs). This will be a great balance of retaining power and mileage, while keeping the sound level down.

[sk8rgui]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

How to figure your rear gears.



https://shiftsst.com/blog/post/how-t...xle-ratio.html

Thanks, that is great and will be very helpful

[sk8rgui]

Originally Posted by Nick_R_23

A few suggestions -

If you’re planning cross country trips, your two biggest improvements will be EFI and Overdrive.

EFI - In my opinion, the best current “bolt on” EFI kit is the Edelbrock Pro Flo 4. I believe this is the most user friendly, and needs the least amount of fiddling to perform well. Keep in mind that EFI always goes hand in hand with upgrading your fuel system, so you will have to budget for some type of tank/pump/line upgrade. I would personally recommend the Holley drop-in module with their Hydramat, as this is also a very user friendly system and eliminates the need to upgrade to a baffled tank or add a return line, and the factory steel hardline can be reused with EFI rated rubber hose and proper clamps.

Transmission: You’re on the right path with the transmission. A 700R4 is a good upgrade by itself, but in many cases, EFI opens up the door to electronic transmissions (due to the addition of a TPS), such as the 4L60E or 4L80E. However, this usually involves an external transmission controller or an EFI kit with transmission control capabilities. As stated by others, you will also likely need to change your rear end gear. 3.73 or 4.10 are good choices with an overdrive transmission, depending on your Highway RPM goals and tire size.

Serpentine Conversion: Skip the Holley kit and simply purchase a factory serpentine assembly from a 1990-1995 Chevy truck with TBI. Most of the time these parts are cheap to free. You will need the passenger side bracket that houses the A/C pump, the drivers side bracket that houses the alternator and power steering pump, the crank pulley, the reverse rotation water pump/pulley/and clutch fan, and of course snag the alternator and power steering pump if possible, as the new style alternator will work with your C10 harness by using a simple wiring adapter available for around $10, giving you a factory 105A alternator.

Electric Fans: Many of the EFI kits have the capability to control electric fans, which is another plus of having EFI. Otherwise, you’ll need an external controller.

LED headlights/taillights: LED headlights are an easy upgrade. You can either purchase an H4 conversion housing and install an H4 socket LED bulb, or there are assembled conversion housings which also work well. LED tail lights (and turn signals) are typically a no-go on these trucks due to the alternating ground style of wiring used on them, it is not LED friendly.

Suspension: You can find a local spring shop that can build a new set of springs for your truck, at any GVW rating you choose. I would also recommend upgrading to a quality GAS CHARGED shock at this time. You can also add air assist bags in the rear paired with a lighter spring - this will retain the load carrying capability of your truck when required, and allow a softer ride when no load is present. Keep in mind, the suspension will always ride better with a load, such as your camper.

Exhaust: I would highly recommend a stock style exhaust in this case - Y-pipe with 3” outlet, a high flow catalytic converter, and an 18” body length flow through style muffler (stay away from chambered designs). This will be a great balance of retaining power and mileage, while keeping the sound level down.

Lot’s of good info here.

If I were to do EFI, the Edlebrock Pro Flow 4 was my top choice. I’ve read lots of horror stories about the Holley and I’ve liked the stuff I’ve gotten from Eddlebrock in the past. The fact that it could control fans, transmission, and make it more driveable are a huge plus. I will have to research this more.

With the Exhaust suggestion and the y-pipe. I’m assuming that would play well with the EFI as well? I know the EFI would need a O2 sensor, but I imagine it’s just the lower sensor and not an upper and lower like on newer cars. A Y-pipe/single pipe would probably be a bit more accurate than a single O2 sensor in one pipe.

In regards to the suspension/bags. I’ve always wondered how they do with payload. I still use this as a truck to go get lumber or a bed full of mulch/dirt. Not every day, but a few times a year.

[Ziegelsteinfaust]

Originally Posted by sk8rgui

Isn’t there quite a bit more electronics with the Vortecs? I thought it was a bit more involved than the old TBI engines. I may be wrong though.

Sorry, I was referring to just the engine. This way you can bolt on the carb of your choice.

Personally if I were to swap in a fuel injected motor for driving purposes. I would just do a 5.3 LS series. It's as cheap as it gets, and offers lots of play room.

The older engines cost just as much, and lack the power. Unless your willing to do it for the visuals of a my personal fav the Holley stealth tbi with integrated trans controls.

[Keith Seymore]

I don't know that you "have" to do any of that....

These trucks were made to be put to work when new.

My '87 was a daily driver for 29 years and 200,000 miles. V6, manual overdrive, 3.73 gears, rubber flooring, manual locks and windows.

With fuel injection, PS, Power disc/drum brakes, overdrive trans, A/C and cruise control it was basically a modern vehicle wrapped in vintage sheetmetal. One of the most comfortable vehicles I own, in terms of ride, steering effort and brake pedal feel.

Now - if all those changes you have listed are your preference - then have at it.

The cosmetic refresh of my truck is covered in my Intro thread, linked in my signature, if you have any interest.

K

[sk8rgui]

Originally Posted by Nick_R_23

A few suggestions -

If you’re planning cross country trips, your two biggest improvements will be EFI and Overdrive.

EFI - In my opinion, the best current “bolt on” EFI kit is the Edelbrock Pro Flo 4. I believe this is the most user friendly, and needs the least amount of fiddling to perform well. Keep in mind that EFI always goes hand in hand with upgrading your fuel system, so you will have to budget for some type of tank/pump/line upgrade. I would personally recommend the Holley drop-in module with their Hydramat, as this is also a very user friendly system and eliminates the need to upgrade to a baffled tank or add a return line, and the factory steel hardline can be reused with EFI rated rubber hose and proper clamps.

Transmission: You’re on the right path with the transmission. A 700R4 is a good upgrade by itself, but in many cases, EFI opens up the door to electronic transmissions (due to the addition of a TPS), such as the 4L60E or 4L80E. However, this usually involves an external transmission controller or an EFI kit with transmission control capabilities. As stated by others, you will also likely need to change your rear end gear. 3.73 or 4.10 are good choices with an overdrive transmission, depending on your Highway RPM goals and tire size.

Serpentine Conversion: Skip the Holley kit and simply purchase a factory serpentine assembly from a 1990-1995 Chevy truck with TBI. Most of the time these parts are cheap to free. You will need the passenger side bracket that houses the A/C pump, the drivers side bracket that houses the alternator and power steering pump, the crank pulley, the reverse rotation water pump/pulley/and clutch fan, and of course snag the alternator and power steering pump if possible, as the new style alternator will work with your C10 harness by using a simple wiring adapter available for around $10, giving you a factory 105A alternator.

Electric Fans: Many of the EFI kits have the capability to control electric fans, which is another plus of having EFI. Otherwise, you’ll need an external controller.

LED headlights/taillights: LED headlights are an easy upgrade. You can either purchase an H4 conversion housing and install an H4 socket LED bulb, or there are assembled conversion housings which also work well. LED tail lights (and turn signals) are typically a no-go on these trucks due to the alternating ground style of wiring used on them, it is not LED friendly.

Suspension: You can find a local spring shop that can build a new set of springs for your truck, at any GVW rating you choose. I would also recommend upgrading to a quality GAS CHARGED shock at this time. You can also add air assist bags in the rear paired with a lighter spring - this will retain the load carrying capability of your truck when required, and allow a softer ride when no load is present. Keep in mind, the suspension will always ride better with a load, such as your camper.

Exhaust: I would highly recommend a stock style exhaust in this case - Y-pipe with 3” outlet, a high flow catalytic converter, and an 18” body length flow through style muffler (stay away from chambered designs). This will be a great balance of retaining power and mileage, while keeping the sound level down.

Lot’s of good info here.

If I were to do EFI, the Edlebrock Pro Flow 4 was my top choice. I’ve read lots of horror stories about the Holley and I’ve liked the stuff I’ve gotten from Eddlebrock in the past. The fact that it could control fans, transmission, and make it more driveable are a huge plus. I will have to research this more.

With the Exhaust suggestion and the y-pipe. I’m assuming that would play well with the EFI as well? I know the EFI would need a O2 sensor, but I imagine it’s just the lower sensor and not an upper and lower like on newer cars. A Y-pipe/single pipe would probably be a bit more accurate than a single O2 sensor in one pipe.

In regards to the suspension/bags. I’ve always wondered how they do with payload. I still use this as a truck to go get lumber or a bed full of mulch/dirt. Not every day, but a few times a year.

[sk8rgui]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

I don't know that you "have" to do any of that....

These trucks were made to be put to work when new.

My '87 was a daily driver for 29 years and 200,000 miles. V6, manual overdrive, 3.73 gears, rubber flooring, manual locks and windows.

With fuel injection, PS, Power disc/drum brakes, overdrive trans, A/C and cruise control it was basically a modern vehicle wrapped in vintage sheetmetal. One of the most comfortable vehicles I own, in terms of ride, steering effort and brake pedal feel.

Now - if all those changes you have listed are your preference - then have at it.

The cosmetic refresh of my truck is covered in my Intro thread, linked in my signature, if you have any interest.

K

Agree, these don’t have to be done. Trying to do a bit of research to see what makes sense for me and the truck.

When the truck was made, highways/interstates were 55 mph, now in Missouri it’s 70 mph. Even at 70 you feel like you are going to get ran over by a semi (especially on interstate 44 between St. Louis & Springfield). A 3 speed transmission makes it pretty darn loud and I don’t think being that high in the RPM’s for a long stretch is good for the truck. That’s why I’m looking at a 4 speed with lockup/overdrive.

The other items aren’t “needed”, but things like a serpentine can reduce drag on the engine and are easier for me to work on. I grew up in a time where all my cars were serpentine and it just seems less confusing. If I’m removing some of those belts, it makes sense for me to do the electric fan radiator at the same time.

Everything else on that list I’m still trying to figure out. That’s why I was reaching out to see what other’s have done or recommend. I like the idea of keeping some of the heart/soul of the truck as I have fond memories of going camping/fishing with my grandfather in that truck. However, at the same time… I’d like to make it a little bit nicer. I’ll check out your thread for inspiration. Thanks.

Edit - Your truck looks good from the pics you posted. Reminds me of my red truck, but with nicer looking paint.

[sk8rgui]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

The cosmetic refresh of my truck is covered in my Intro thread, linked in my signature, if you have any interest.

K

I read your intro really quick, haven’t made it through the whole thread. Pretty cool background. My other grandfather retired (1991) from the Chrysler Plant in Fenton (St. Louis). It’s was torn down a few years back. I think the GM one you referenced was closed around the time he retired. I think they still have a plant about 45 minutes away though.

[truckin 79]

If you change the intake to a edlelbrock performer it will not really save you on gas mileage per se but it will save you 50 lbs compared to the ebrock intake. I personally think adding fuel injection on these squares is not worth the hassle compared to a good running carb. There is a guy I work that added the FI tech to his square and he has been having all kinds of trouble with it. Keep in mind they call these things SQUARES for a reason, little to no aerodynamics on these things. I would concentrate my money on a better rear end gear and a more comfortable bench/bucket seat.
I am adding air conditioning to my square as one creature comfort I cant live without.

[Nick_R_23]

Just as a side note to the EFI/intake talk, it’s very important to run a single plane intake when using the “carb replacement” kits such as the Sniper EFI, Fitech EFI, or MSD Atomic EFI. You can run into a lot of tuning and drivability issues when using these with a dual plane intake.

[Ziegelsteinfaust]

Originally Posted by Nick_R_23

Just as a side note to the EFI/intake talk, it’s very important to run a single plane intake when using the “carb replacement” kits such as the Sniper EFI, Fitech EFI, or MSD Atomic EFI. You can run into a lot of tuning and drivability issues when using these with a dual plane intake.

A 1 inch spacer solves the issue, but I also like to grind out the plenum to. Even on carburetor engines as it reduces cfm sensitivites. Along with minimizing drivibility issues with larger cams. Stock cams nearly no effect.

The tbi style fuel injection needs a open plenum under the carb to equalize vacuum signal to the map I believe. By adding the spacer it can see both sides of the plenum, and work like intended.

[Nick_R_23]

It’s not a vacuum issue with EFI, it’s a fuel distribution issue that is inherent to the design of dual plane intakes. The root of the issue is that you will never properly distribute fuel with that style of intake. You can also have pulse timing issues depending on how the EFI system itself is set up and the layout of the intake tracts. Just a simple incompatibility between these parts. The proper intake with TBI EFI is a single plane.

[Ziegelsteinfaust]

I said vacuum signal. For what ever reason tbi's are sensitive. It looses or can not compensate for some reason. The schools still out on what exactly causes the issue, but not everyone has it.

It's not exactly a fuel distribution issue as all wet flow manifolds have fuel distribution issues. Supposedly the tunnel ram has the least. But cylinder to cylinder can be quite wide even on the best of manifolds.

My friend dropped a msd tbi on his truck no issues on his dual plane. His friend did it to and all the problems you describe. I agreed with what he read to try a spacer before buying a new intake. He did a 1.5 inch spacer, and problem solved. He then modified the intake to allow better signal.

Is a single plane better? Well it doesn't effect tbi's, but it will soften torque.

So be aware of the choices. I am eyeing the terminator retro for my 350 LT1 reverse cooled. Personally I want to do the tunnel ram I have for the fun.

[Nick_R_23]

TBI units do not care about vacuum signals. The reason there are issues is because the natural divided design of a dual plane cannot properly distribute fuel with injector banks being divided. That’s simple physics. Will it start and run? Yes. Is it correct or able to be properly tuned? No. If you dyno tested this with 8 oxygen sensors, you would see a wildly varied graph, with some cylinders running rich and some running lean. You cannot correct this except to install the correct part, a single plane intake. This has already been dyno proven multiple times.

[LT7A]

Hey Skate, lots of in-depth discussion here. For simple drivability and comfort upgrade, I'm a big fan of Bilstein shocks. They're not cheap, but I've always been surprised at the difference they make. They won't obviously correct any suspension flaws, so having your other components and bushings in good shape is important. But my experience is that they are worth the money.