Timing showing way off tab...wits end
 

Ok so here is my issue,I recently rebuilt my engine. Bored,rings,bearings new cam,heads etc. Other than that everything from old engine is being used. Issue is when a timing light is connected (vac advance disconnected). The timing mark shows at 12 o clock position way off tab with timing light. Also tried another light same results. I have verified tdc using a stop and by compression and the balancer mark is right on zero on tab. The engine will not run when I retard timing to get near the tab. Engine starts well and doesn’t kick back or ping and revs up nicely. Doesn’t ping under load in gear either. I can’t for the life of me figure out why this is happening, I have even locked the weights in the distributor and it ran bad under load so engine doesn’t seem to be running at an actual 38-40 degrees initial timing. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Re: Timing showing way off tab...wits end
 

Couple of possible solutions.

1. you have a dial back type timing light and it is messed up. I would verify with another timing light (opps did't read your post closely enough)
2. Are you really hooked to #1 SBC cyl 1 is drivers side front of engine.
3. timing ring had shifted on your balancer

Re: Timing showing way off tab...wits end
 

Yes on number one cylinder,no balancer hasn’t shifted keyway is in line with mark on balancer. Old setup was perfect with this same balancer. If balancer shifted tdc wouldn’t line up with tab 0 mark.

Re: Timing showing way off tab...wits end
 

So before working on the engine as you stated above, when you set the timing before the rebuild, the mark was different than what you are seeing today ??

Some SBC's are timed straight up on the timing cover....

How did you set the timing before your rebuild....what changed, timing cover ? balancer ? reused all old parts ? Anything changed ?

Re: Timing showing way off tab...wits end
 

Yup, trac must not have timed the engine before the rebuild. It sounds like the classic wrong balancer/timing cover combo.

Re: Timing showing way off tab...wits end
 

Except he says timing mark is zeroed with #1 TDC.

Re: Timing showing way off tab...wits end
 

Finally someone who actually read the post through. Balancer has not been changed or shifted as stated in op. Previous engine was also timed. I’ll figure it out thanks.

Re: Timing showing way off tab...wits end
 

LOL !!!!! Please let us know what you find !!!! I love these trick questions and its like a treasure hunt.... its so exciting.

Did you do all the work ? so you should know what you did wrong....right ?

GOOD LUCK !!!


Oh I missed the comment "previous engine" which implies its not the original engine ? correct ?
Heres one for ya... put ground shielding on your plug wires and make sure you get a good ground to ground the shielding to. Must be still winter in Canada....

Re: Timing showing way off tab...wits end
 

Previous engine means before rebuild as stated in op.

Re: Timing showing way off tab...wits end
 

Does your timing cover have a tab at 12 o'clock right under the water pump that can barely be seen ? Did you add an aftermarket timing tab on the cover at the 5 o'clock position as small blocks often have or add a different timing cover? It can appear as that the distributor is in correctly and it is on number one and TDC on the lower tab when in fact the TDC should be on the upper tab under the water pump. Balancer crank keyways determine what tab is used.
Happened to me. I put the motor together, didn't see the almost hidden tab and added an aftermarket timing tab. Had that distributor in and out several times 'till I finally figured it out.

Re: Timing showing way off tab...wits end
 

No cover and tab are original and have not been changed. All posted in response are a moot point since the mark on the balancer points to 0 on the tab.

I’ll post what this issue is when and if I find it. My original post has addressed every question people have asked.

Re: Timing showing way off tab...wits end
 

Are you using the same crank? Or maybe the cam gear (distributor end) is off index from the old 1?

Like trac209 says, he'll figure it out... Head scratcher for sure!

Re: Timing showing way off tab...wits end
 

OK, so I'm old & have a bad memory, but I've done hundreds engines & once, I had a belt timed ohc straight 4 that ran 'OK', but wasn't doing near what it should. Found that some gas station mechanic had replaced the timing belt 1 tooth off. Retarded cam timing 8° & ran, but lost power @4k instead of 6.5k (redline).

Put the belt where it SHOULD have been & it ran like a raped ape.

Is it possible that your cam gear (timing chain) is off 1 tooth?

Re: Timing showing way off tab...wits end
 

Timing chain advanced one tooth?
Cam not ground properly?
Did you degree the camshaft when you installed it?

Re: Timing showing way off tab...wits end
 

I've been wracking my brain since your first post. This is really a mystery. The only thing I can come up with is maybe the cam...

How is the power compared to what you expected? If the cam is off, it could still run, and the ignition timing would be off, but it should have a noticeable power loss.

Re: Timing showing way off tab...wits end
 

Whether the cam was installed advanced or retarded, it is not going to change the ignition timing only the valve timing. Since the OP has verified #1 TDC and the the rotor is at #1, I would suspect something screwy is going on with the distributor.

Re: Timing showing way off tab...wits end
 

Uumm, if the OP is talking about a SBC, ignition timing is driven by the cam.

Re: Timing showing way off tab...wits end
 

Yes but you can adjust the distributor independent of the cam timing. Even if the cam is off a tooth, you can get the distributor where it needs to be.

Re: Timing showing way off tab...wits end
 

The balancer is made up of multiple pieces. There should be a rubber layer in there. If that has deteriorated, the center section will line up on the crank, and it will look fine when the engine is off, but can move once the engine is started. I would try moving the outer ring of the balancer to be sure it is tight to the center section and there is no play.

edit:
The crank pulley bolts to the center section. mark TDC on the crank pulley and see if it lines up with the balancer while running.

Re: Timing showing way off tab...wits end
 

What vehicle is this SBC in ? I am assuming its a SBC, no where have you indicated what engine it is..... its a Chevy correct ?

baby steps one question at a time...….


Year Make Model CID please...

Re: Timing showing way off tab...wits end
 

Yes Sbc,look no offence intended but I’m just gonna stop replies to this thread as nobody has either taken the time to read through original post or they know zero about engines and timing.

Re: Timing showing way off tab...wits end
 

LOL!!!! No where in your information talks about what vehicle or engine so if you want any help from me I need you to answer the questions I asked, if not its still your issue...… WOW dude !!! must be still cold up North...

By the way no offense intended in return but its really your issue and if you want help you are going about it the wrong way !! To say in this forum, read thru the OP....well where in your OP does it indicate what engine year make of vehicle.....you want us to help but wont give up information so I can help you

Cant even answer my simple question year make model CID.....so we know what we are working on....the forum deserves folks like you when you state no one knows about engines and you are going to STOP replying...LOL!!! WTH, is this kids corner or something....LOL!!!!!!

I wont reply any more....LOL!!!!! I don't know what your working on...most likely its a FORD !!!! You offended....LOL!!!!

What a joke dude !!!!

GOOD LUCK !!!!

Re: Timing showing way off tab...wits end
 

I can't stop thinking about how a raped ape runs. A video would be most helpful. Lol.

Re: Timing showing way off tab...wits end
 

All I can say is good luck after your last post/comment.

Re: Timing showing way off tab...wits end
 

I guess that shows how old I am...

"That thing ran like a:

scalded dog
raped ape

Re: Timing showing way off tab...wits end
 

I searched YouTube for “runs like a raped ape”. It told me if the piston is truly at TDC using the correct tool, balancer is marked correctly and zero’s out at pointer on timing cover along with dizzy on correct firing cylinder, degreed camshaft during build correctly. Using all known good parts.... This FORD engine should run like a raped ape !! Wits End......

Re: Timing showing way off tab...wits end
 

Didn't we just have another thread just like this one?

Re: Timing showing way off tab...wits end
 

Yes there is and several on the internet with no solution. Must be that time of year when things start warming up. I can’t help when they can’t be helped. Call mommy !!!

Where is the timing expert ??? Figured he come in and save the day. The other guy from Canada. What’s his name again ? Bow. Bow bow !!! WhAts ur initial timing guy ? Lol!!!

My last reply on this thread.

Re: Timing showing way off tab...wits end
 

It's just not possible for one to be that far off if it was assembled with the mark zeroed and the rotor pointed at the #1 terminal on the cap.

Re: Timing showing way off tab...wits end
 

I'm going to bet the the cam gear (timing chain) is off 1 tooth & the spark plug wires are off 1 position to the right.

My last post as well.

Re: Timing showing way off tab...wits end
 

reported by fellow members for the bs slinging. How about we behave? thanks

Re: Timing showing way off tab...wits end
 

Why would valve timing make the spark be off.

Re: Timing showing way off tab...wits end
 

I have read this post several times....not much info to help out...
Just a few things I would consider and need a few answers to move forward:
When you say "I have even locked the weights in the distributor" What springs do you have ? Weakest springs ? Timing advancing to early even before 800 RPM ?
If in fact the engine is running at that much advance would cause the engine to have issues, starting issues, etc etc... So do you really think the engine is running at that much advance.
What type of timing light are you using ? When you used the second timing light was it different type of timing light...dial back ? Straight up ? are you getting what I am asking....

What NEW cam did you install into this engine ? I think it was already asked but are we talking a 350 cid engine here ?

Can you provide a pic of the piston stop you used.

What type of heads did you use, are they different heads than the original engine; vortec heads ?

I know this is a lot of questions but feedback on these questions hopefully will get the issue resolved. I don't want any part of the BS slinging !!!! Lets get it resolved with your answers.

One more thing, please post pics of the front of the engine.

Edited: searched the web for same issue.

I just wanted to add the following web page, after reading this web page makes me wonder if this is the same. problem never found or reported. It starts out almost as if its the same person who had this issue, make sure you read post number 8 from page 1.

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/....649643/page-5

Re: Timing showing way off tab...wits end
 

Ok so here’s what was going on, the carb that was already run before in the previous setup didn’t like the new heads and extra compression. I was chasing my tail trying to get the timing down and adjust the carb. It was a combo of the engine trying to run on the idle circuit and transfer slots. So once the engine would start to idle stable the idle circuit wasn’t being utilized and it would be getting too much fuel at idle and want more timing to compensate. This was figured by opening the secondary throttle blades and the idle came up with reasonable timing and the main idle could be turned back down.

Re: Timing showing way off tab...wits end
 

New heads, what heads were used ? Just wondering. Casting number ?

Can you provide a pic of the new engine, we all would love to see it. Thanks in advance !



$$$$$ question$$$$$$$ What was the engine's RPM when you were trying to check the timing ?

New engine, break-in RPM used ? Was the idle screw turned so the rpm was higher than actual "Idle speed" while breaking in the engine and never reset to in the area of 850 or so.

Re: Timing showing way off tab...wits end
 

I've seen that before, but not to the extent you described. I was going to suggest the chain was off until the slinging started. Had a Volvo come in that had been driven about 90k with the belt off a tooth. New belt in the correct place and it was a new car

Re: Timing showing way off tab...wits end
 

[QUOTE=kwmech;8521823]I've seen that before, but not to the extent you described. I was going to suggest the chain was off until the slinging started. Had a Volvo come in that had been driven about 90k with the belt off a tooth. New belt in the correct place and it was a new car[/QUOte

From what I read it had nothing to do with timing at all. suggesting a tooth off was already discussed

Re: Timing showing way off tab...wits end
 

[quote=Chevyrestorerman;8521914]Exactly, the cam was installed properly and the engine was just asking for too much timing. The heads are just cheap 205 cc 2.02 1.6 valve aluminums. I may have been snippy with a few members over this post but it felt like I was just saying the same thing over and over that was in the original post. You can only say it’s not a tdc issue so many times lol.

Re: Timing showing way off tab...wits end
 

The carb was one of those KNOWN good parts that you used before so it was eliminated from consideration because previous engine didn’t have the issue
Can you put in simple terms what you did. Did you turn the idle screw so the throttle blades where totally closed ? So carb would actually be on the idle circuit ? Sorry for so many questions but just wanting to summarize and move on. Thanks !

added: No idea of carb, Holley ?
Did you set the primary throttle blades (idle speed screw) to expose no more than .025"-.030" of the idle transfer slots ?
They're located under the primary throttle blades - must remove carburetor to measure, This is a Common problem
Open the secondary blades a little bit, in order to close the primary blades (to maintain desired idle speed).
When the idle transfer slots are exposed too much, it makes idle mixture screws useless.

Re: Timing showing way off tab...wits end
 

I already answered this exactly in my post.