need recomendations on a 5sp for a 4x4
 

i want a 5sp over drive behind my 396, are there any that will bolt up to the original transfer case and stand up to the torque of a big block?

Thanks,
David

Re: need recomendations on a 5sp for a 4x4
 

Use a NV4500 from a 1993 up 3/4 or 1 ton chevy truck. I'm not sure but I think a NP208 from a 4 speed will go on the gas version of the NV4500's in the chevys.

Re: need recomendations on a 5sp for a 4x4
 

will the nv4500 have any issues mating to the old big block? i know the sbc changed bellhousings in the 90's but was sure on the big blocks

Re: need recomendations on a 5sp for a 4x4
 

No, it uses the same bell housing for small block and big block. As far as I know the bell housing did not change until they went to modular type engines in the late 90's when they changed body styles.

Re: need recomendations on a 5sp for a 4x4
 

oh i thought it changed with the introduction of vortec

Re: need recomendations on a 5sp for a 4x4
 

The bellhousing bolt pattern (trans mounting) is different for the NV4500, bolting to the block is the same

Re: need recomendations on a 5sp for a 4x4
 

they also sell adapters to fit an NP205 onto the NV4500...

Re: need recomendations on a 5sp for a 4x4
 

Just an FYI, you can use a NP205 from a 1991-1993 Dodge cummins that had a getrag 5 speed. But your NV4500 will need the 29 spline out put shaft.

Re: need recomendations on a 5sp for a 4x4
 

I think what he's referring to on the bellhousings is when they switched to 1 piece rear main seals, the newer crankshafts used a different flywheel, clutch and pilot bearing is the only difference that I can think of. Otherwise bellhousings should be the same.

Re: need recomendations on a 5sp on a 396/402
 

Do you mean to say that I would have to get the Dodge Getrag trans and change the shaft over to a 29 spline? I am looking at doing this to a 396/402.
I also have this conversation going on over here.

I would really like a build list of parts and know where to check with the vendors on this. I wish to design a restoration in my head before I buy the vehicle for restoration.

Thanks,

Robert in Atlanta

Re: need recomendations on a 5sp for a 4x4
 

I called Advance Adapters and they said thier adapters would not fit a big block.

Re: need recomendations on a 5sp for a 4x4
 

Any big block, or just certain years? If all, this doesn't make sense, because the early ones are absolutely the same as a pre-LSx SB. Now the LSx smallblocks really are different (depth to crank flange), so I am wondering if a similar change was made on the big blocks?

Ray

Re: need recomendations on a 5sp for a 4x4
 

I told the guy the year. From my research there could be a 68-70 396, or a 71/72 402. Can you shed any extra light? Maybe they just do not know!

Re: need recomendations on a 5sp for a 4x4
 

The BBC's all used the same bell housing so I have no idea why it would matter for your year. The clutch i'm sure is the same as well as far as dimensions, so IDK what the issue is.

Purchase a 6.5 diesel NV4500. It will have the best gear ratios of the chevy NV4500's. It will bolt right up to your big block. What year truck do you plan on building? There are options and I can't believe they would tell you it won't work with a big block.

Re: need recomendations on a 5sp for a 4x4
 

Just for the record, I did a little research on gear ratios on the Muncie SM465, and the NV4500.

According to Wikipedia:
Muncie SM465
1 6.55:1
2 3.58:1
3 1.70:1
4 1.10:1
R 6.09:1

–GM Light truck
General Motors used the NV4500 as RPO MT8 & MW3 in 8500 + GVWR light trucks.[1]

1992–1994 GMC & Chevrolet C/K 2500 and 3500
1995–2002 GMC & Chevrolet C/K 2500 and 3500
2004–2006 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD and 3500 and 2007 Silverado Classic
2004–2006 GMC Sierra 2500HD and 3500
1992–2007 RPO MT8 & MW3 Shared Features:

GM corporate V8 bellhousng to engine bolt pattern
GM specific input shaft measuring 6-5/8" in length, 1.125" in diameter with 10 splines and a .590" diameter pilot
All 2wd use a fixed yoke output
All 4wd use a GM specific 32 spline output
1992–1994 RPO MT8 Features:

GM NV4500 Transmission to bellhousing bolt pattern (not the same as GM 4speeds)
Right hand mounted hydraulic slave cylinder with fork mounted throwout bearing
Unsynchronized reverse
MT8 Gear ratios:

1 6.34 (1993) 5.61 (1994 on)
2 3.44
3 1.71
4 1.00
5 0.73
R 6.34

The following data may not be relevent if there are no GM/Dodge adapters available. If so please advise.
1995–2007 RPO MW3 Features:

Dodge Transmission to bellhousing bolt pattern
Concentric internal hydraulic clutch slave cylinder with integrated throwout bearing
Synchronized Reverse
MW3 Gear ratios:

1 5.61
2 3.04
3 1.67
4 1.00
5 0.73
R 5.61 (to 1997) 5.04 (1997 on)

–Dodge Ram
Chrysler Corporation Dodge Truck division used the NV4500 as NVG4500 in "Standard" and "Heavy Duty" applications.[2]

Shared Standard Duty & Heavy Duty Features:

Dodge NV4500 Transmission to bellhousing bolt pattern (shared with the 1995–2005 GM light trucks)
Dodge specific input shaft 7.5" long with .725" diameter pilot shaft diameter & spline count varies
Concentric internal hydraulic clutch slave cylinder with integrated throwout bearing
1992.5-1997 2wd Gear drive speedometer in tailhousing Some 1998 may have gear drive
1998-----UP 2wd no speedometer gear (VSS in axle)
Standard Duty 1992.5–2005 order code DDP:

All Years have Dodge small block bellhousing to engine bolt pattern
1992.5–2002 Used with 5.9 V8(5.2L v8 used NV3500)
2003–2005 5.7 hemi offered with auto only
1992.5 only 1" diameter 19 Spline input shaft
1993-----UP 1.125" diameter 10 Spline input shaft
1992.5---UP 2wd 30 spline output
1992.5-2000 4wd 23 spline output
2001-----UP 4wd 29 spline output
Heavy Duty 1994–2005 order code DDX:

All Years used with 5.9 Cummins Turbo Diesel and 8.0 V-10
All Years 5.9 Cummins Turbo Diesel & 8.0 V10 bellhousing to engine bolt pattern
All Years 1.25" diameter 10 Spline input shaft
All Years 2wd 31 spline output
All Years 4wd 29 spline output
Dodge Gear ratios:

1 5.61
2 3.04
3 1.67
4 1.00
5 0.73
R 5.61 (to 1997) 5.04 (1997 on)

Re: need recomendations on a 5sp for a 4x4
 

RPO MW3 is the 1996-2007 GM unit.

In 1995 New Venture decided to make use of economies of scale and make 1 case casting instead of 2. The newer Tranny to Bellhousing bolt pattern is the same as the Dodge variant however the transfer case clock ring may be machined differently for Dodge.... ??

You can in theory update the later Dodge transmission to GM use if you change to a GM input shaft. The output spline count is still a problem.

It's much cheaper to buy a GM NV4500 RPO MW3 or MT8 and mate it to a 32 spline NP208. The Advance Adapters 205 kit requires modification of the output shaft length.
Make sure you get the GM bellhousing. The MT8 external slave unit was only made for 3 years so it's getting scarce. The Extra low 1st gear 1993 MT8 is extremely rare. Later MT8 1994-1995 are still not as available as the MW3 1996-2007 internal slave units.

Use a 1985...1987 Hydraulic brake/clutch pedal set and make up a hybrid hydraulic line to mate the '80s master to the '90s slave.
If you think the MT8 will get you out of this fun... the MT8 slave cylinder is on the Passenger side of the truck the 1985-1987 slave is on the drivers side.

Advance adapters will lighten your wallet by at least $900 but will retain the mechanical clutch linkage.

Re: need recomendations on a 5sp for a 4x4
 

WHEW! Now im dizzy!:uhmk:

So whats the cheapest way to do it? As a note I have not bought a truck yet. I am leaning towards a big block though I am told by Advance they have nothing for me but other listers are confused (as shown in the stated parallel thread listed by me in an earlier post) as the bell housing is the same for the SBC as is the BBC.

I also do not know if I will get a 2x4, or a 4x4. But I would think the appropriate NV4500 would either mate to the 205 xfer case or the U-Joint as appropriate with no problems other than the mod to the 4x4 output shaft as stated for the advance adapter.

From what you are stating I would need an MW3 that ebay lists new for 1700 or so, (but I bet I could get from a junk yard for ???, 500???) Add the adapter for 900.

What I really need is a build list with prices and what to look for that is cheapest for both the 2x4 and 4x4.

Thanks.

Re: need recomendations on a 5sp for a 4x4
 

Try $1000 for salvaged NV4500.
Decide whether you'll be doing 4wd or 2wd. Then buy the right tranny. I don't think you can convert 4x to 2x or the other way around. NV4500 Wiki

Re: need recomendations on a 5sp for a 4x4
 

So its a 2-2.5k upgrade.
Thanks for the Wiki link. I put it in my original but lost it when i composed the initial detailed reply.

Re: need recomendations on a 5sp for a 4x4
 

If you presently have a bellhousing with a 5-1/8" center hole, the cheapest route would be to use a Dodge NV4500 and the 712550 adaptor plate. This will let you keep your existing clutch linkage. IMO, this is also the least work to install. The plate is about $275 from Advance Adapters.

If you don't have a suitable bellhousing, and are willing to (or want to) convert to hydraulic linkage, use a GM transmssion and a stock NV4500 bell that matches the year of the transmission. If you did the work yourself, I would think it shouldn't cost more than $200 even if you bought all new parts for the hydraulic conversion.

If you want mechanical linkage, use a GM transmission and an aftermarket bell like 712577 for 93-95 and 712576 for 96-up. Either bellhousing is about $400 from Advance.

An unmodified GM transmission will NOT work with the 712550 plate because its input shaft isn't long enough. You might be able to use a GM trans if you installed a Dodge input shaft and bearing retainer, but I don't know for sure about the parts interchangeability, so won't suggest this until I can find out more.

If you are wanting to build a 4WD truck, it will probably be cheaper to buy a 4WD NV4500 with the transfer case already married to it. This way, you won't have to worry about finding (and paying for) the right adaptor.

Ray

Re: need recomendations on a 5sp for a 4x4
 

Awesome info Ray! Thats what I needed. thanks.

Re: need recomendations on a 5sp for a 4x4
 

Hey rob,

I have done the swap you are considering. Started with a '77 K20/SBC400/TH350/NP203. (all original) Pulled all of it and installed a 70-75 BBC454/ '92 NV4500 and an '86 NP 205.

I had to buy a new bellhouse from the local Chevy dealer in Denver ($135.00) and had an adapter machined to mate the transfer to tranny (Material $80, machining $150)

The engine was purchased for $1200, Tranny $400 (needed rebuilt $500) and transfer $150.00. All from Craigslist.

This combo has worked spectacularly and I have not one single complaint. Yea, figuring out angles and mounting points were kind of a pain but, WELL worth it. Furthermore, if you start with GM then for pete's sake, stick with GM. You'll save yourself more headache, hassle and expense than you know.

The thing you have to foresee is, if you beef up the engine-driveline then, you have to keep going with the beefing up to the rear axle (where I am now. a new Yukon grizzly locker,ring and pinion and bearings are due to arrive tomorrow).

Good luck with your venture if you choose to pursue it!!

Re: need recomendations on a 5sp for a 4x4
 

This is exactly why I said to hell with it (for now) and went with an SM465 / (D) NP205 setup in my '66. I think I spent $300 on the setup total.