'84 K10 Engine Build Questions

[Marshy]

Originally Posted by 68post

...yeah..I knew that...

hence why I mentioned it being ground for an oem roller block.

Thanks for the advice on this cam, I am definitely going to choose this one. He said that profile can be ground on the step nose to fit the vortec motor. He said that for a stock engine it like a "best effort cam" and will definitely be more aggressive than the other custom grind. It probably has a measureable power loss around 1200-1500 rpm but nothing noticeable. Either choice will kick the snot out of stock cam. He said the other custom cam was more forgiving on the valve train components and that's likely why he suggested it... This truck wont see a lot of RPM and only gets about 5000 miles a year so Im not too concerned with the wear unless it starts pulling out rocker studs.

BTW, is there a rule of thumb for when you should transition to thread in studs, like a max spring rate to use or load with valve open? I'll do some more research in the mean time.

[Marshy]

Originally Posted by 68post

Lunati lists a "Street Master" roller cam under their retro-fit cams, part #20120312.
Adv. duration 276 / 284. @ .050 210 / 218, lift .492 / .492 w/1.5 rocker ratio, LS 112 / ICL 106.

Much more lift. Ask them if this one could be ground for an OEM roller block.

I've been reading and comparing more and wanted to ask opinions about using a GM Performance LT4 Hot Cam. It's comparable to that Lunati Streetmaster.

LT4uration at .050 in. 218/228, Lift .492/.492

Thoughts?

[68post]

As a general rule of thumb in a 350 a cam with 218*intake duration will make less power below 4,000 rpm,will have a noticeable lump @ idle and have less power off idle - than smaller cams (212* and down).

[Marshy]

Finally had enough procrastination and bought a Comp Cam. Went with the Xtreme Energy 08-408-8, Grind: XR258HR. It has 206/212 duration and .480/.487 lift at .050 on a 110* LSA.

Its time to get this back together. I'll need to start moving firewood before I know it.

[tjsblazer]

Originally Posted by Marshy

Finally had enough procrastination and bought a Comp Cam. Went with the Xtreme Energy 08-408-8, Grind: XR258HR. It has 206/212 duration and .480/.487 lift at .050 on a 110* LSA.

Its time to get this back together. I'll need to start moving firewood before I know it.

Just catching up on this thread. I think that Cam is a good choice for your described usage. Remind me again what your static compression is going to be.

[Marshy]

Probably will be about 9.25 SCR. That's based on a GM Spec sheet I read on the L31 stock. At this point I believe I will be able to reuse the stock pistons with new rings and won't have to deck the block, maybe just skim the heads.?

[Marshy]

So my machinist doesn't want to spend time to cleaning the ring land grooves (metric) in the used L31 pistons. He recommends replacing the pistons and rings with a aftermarket set with standard dimension rings. He claims it would likely cost more for him to clean them for reuse than it would cost to buy replacements and rings. What are your thoughts on this? Does he have a valid point or could I get a gallon of chem tool and a nylon brush and get these clean? Maybe a harbor freight ultrasonic clean, chem tool solvent and a nylon brush and do them one at a time.

[DMT]

Originally Posted by Marshy

So my machinist doesn't want to spend time to cleaning the ring land grooves (metric) in the used L31 pistons. He recommends replacing the pistons and rings with a aftermarket set with standard dimension rings. He claims it would likely cost more for him to clean them for reuse than it would cost to buy replacements and rings. What are your thoughts on this? Does he have a valid point or could I get a gallon of chem tool and a nylon brush and get these clean? Maybe a harbor freight ultrasonic clean, chem tool solvent and a nylon brush and do them one at a time.

Hey Marshy, I just got done reading your thread and glad you're going through the bottom end that other engine looked tired.

If I seen this thread earlier I would of recommended keeping the factory Vortec roller cam and running it with 1.6:1 rockers. That factory cam would wake up with a bit of extra squeeze and the 1.6 rockers. I have a Vortec 305 in a 3,400 lb car with 1.6:1 rockers with the factory roller cam and have went 13.80s in the QM with it, with 45 more cubes I think that car would be in the low 13s maybe even the high 12s with the extra cubes and a bit more squeeze with the factory roller cam with 1.6:1 roller rockers, the factory Vortec cam is no slouch if its helped a bit.

If the Vortec pistons have the thinner 1.5mm 1.5mm 3.0mm rings you are a whole lot better off keeping the Vortec pistons! The older style thicker rings will rob some power from you with the extra drag. But there are economical pistons with the metric rings or even the thinner 1/16", 1/16" 1/8" ring pistons as well. The old style power robbing rings are the 5/64", 5/64", 3/16" rings.

If you add up the difference in ring thickness from the 5/64" to the 1.5mm thickness that would be .078125" - .059055"(the metric 1.5mm converted to inches) = .01907" which you're probably thinking that's not that much. But wait there's more, .01907 x 2 = .03814" x 8 = .30512" more metal to metal drag per every RPM going up and down the cylinders.

So either get the skinny metric ring replacement pistons or clean those off yourself to make them ready to assemble back in. The couple hundred bucks the cam was plus the springs you should also of got for that cam, would of went a long way into other areas if in you kept the factory Vortec cam. You could of got 1.6:1 roller rockers.

Anyway, try to stick with a factory Vortec replacement pistons even if the block needs to be bored that way you can save some cash for not having to have the crank rebalanced. If the replacement pistons you get are heavier then you would have to add expensive heavy Mallory metal to rebalance the crank so there's that to keep in mind when swapping pistons around. Plus the stock replacement pistons are around .020" shorter so the rebuilder can resurface the deck by milling off .020".

They use to sell ring groove cleaning tools, not sure if they do anymore but something to check into just make sure you get the right size for your pistons.

Also pressing them off of the rods can stress the pistons so you would be better off leaving the .030" over pistons on the other rods, it doesn't matter how much better the Vortec rods are that engine won't make enough power to even think about hurting the other rods. But again this puts you in the position where you should rebalance because those components weren't originally balanced to that crank. At the power level build you're doing you should be able to re-use the factory rod bolts.

More than likely the .030" pistons will be probably .030" more in the hole than the Vortec pistons(the factory Vortec pistons look to have .010" taller compression distance than the older style pistons) because stock replacement pistons are destroked around .020" to leave the rebuilder .020" to machine off of the deck. If the deck isn't machined then quench and compression will suffer, that's probably why the previous owner put 305 heads on the engine? I think I read a post that the deck was never machined on the other engine so that probably solves that mystery.

.020" off of the Vortec heads wouldn't hurt either to bump that compression around .35 more to get you around 9.6:1. Not sure what head gaskets the Vortec engine originally used from the factory but probably the .015" steal shim head gaskets so make sure you use a set of those or you're compression will suffer and the extra .020" off would be for a zero compression gain.

With the roller cam and the Vortec heads you're going to like how that engine runs, you shouldn't have any problems at all hauling wood in the bed and a trailer. You shouldn't have any detonation problems with 87 octane but if you do with a heavy load just mix some premium in the tank until the ratio gets rid of the ping but I don't think you will. GL

[Marshy]

Thanks for the advice. I think I'm going to ask him to give me the vortec pistons still on the rods and I will clean them and have him put new rings on. I will get a ring cleaning tool and have a go at it. As far as we know the bores don't need boring however he did say he was goin to skim cut the surface of the block and heads to get a nice clean mating surface, compression increase will be minimal. Also about the coolant passage, I need to tell him to drill a small hole in the head that Captinfab suggested so I don't have to run the vortec water pump.

[DMT]

Originally Posted by Marshy

Thanks for the advice. I think I'm going to ask him to give me the vortec pistons still on the rods and I will clean them and have him put new rings on. I will get a ring cleaning tool and have a go at it. As far as we know the bores don't need boring however he did say he was goin to skim cut the surface of the block and heads to get a nice clean mating surface, compression increase will be minimal. Also about the coolant passage, I need to tell him to drill a small hole in the head that Captinfab suggested so I don't have to run the vortec water pump.

That's to bad you couldn't grab the serpentine system from the van, it would be no problem running the Vortec water pump then.

An extra .015" to .020" while he has the heads setup to cut shouldn't be much more $ but that's up to you. And or have the deck cut an extra .025" if you would rather run the .040" Fel-Pro blue perma-torque head gaskets or a different style .040" head gasket?

That's a good tip from Captainfab about the extra deck hole in the head but is there the corresponding hole that would need to be drilled in the Vortec block's deck? The Vortec 305 I have in the car would have crazy temperature spikes running an old style water pump now I know why. Thanks Captain! I never had any detonation problems when the temperature spiked but seeing that on the gage would concern me at times to put it lightly. LOL But after a while not hearing any spark knock what is typically heard when an engine is overheating made me not worry about it. The temperature spikes wouldn't last long probably a minute or 2 then it would be back to normal. I thought there was a difference in the cooling passages in the Vortec block, its good to know that its just a omitted hole in the head that would be easy to correct by drilling a couple.

Marshy, do you plan on re-assembling the engine or are you going to pay someone to? Assembling an engine isn't rocket science and the tools you would need to do it probably would cost less than paying someone to do it for you. I'm sure myself or someone else could walk you through doing it yourself so you know how to do it in the future if you ever needed or wanted more torque of a 383 then you would have an engine build under your belt to step up to a 383 build next time? GL

[DMT]

Hey Marshy, I just remembered about that 305 I put in a car. I found out that the factory made a 5 quart(usually they only hold 4) oil pan for the one piece RMS blocks that they installed on their LPG engines. I bought one for the 305 at a Chevy dealer I think it was around $50 but that was about 10 years ago. Just an FYI for an extra quart capacity genuine GM oil pan. GL

[Marshy]

Originally Posted by Captainfab

In my opinion, you can reuse the original roller lifters as long as the rollers roll smoothly and you clean them up real good. Yes you can bolt on any small block water pump. As for the bypass. Since you have this engine apart, what I would do is find the location and drill the bypass hole in the right side head. See the pics below. The head in the 2nd pic is a Vortec head. I would use a head gasket to find the location on the head.

Captin, is that hole specific to using the vortec head on non roller block? I asked my machinist if he was familiar with doing this and asked him about using the water pump off my old style 2 piece rear seal block. He told me he's never heard anything about it and has put together many engines without a bypass and used the old style water pumps without any issues. He said we could but wasn't sure what benefit it was. I told him I would ask more questions because I wasn't exactly sure... He said I'm using the vortec heads on the block they are meant for and have an aftermarket intake and shouldn't need a bypass.

[Marshy]

Originally Posted by DMT

An extra .015" to .020" while he has the heads setup to cut shouldn't be much more $ but that's up to you. And or have the deck cut an extra .025" if you would rather run the .040" Fel-Pro blue perma-torque head gaskets or a different style .040" head gasket?

...

Marshy, do you plan on re-assembling the engine or are you going to pay someone to? Assembling an engine isn't rocket science and the tools you would need to do it probably would cost less than paying someone to do it for you. I'm sure myself or someone else could walk you through doing it yourself so you know how to do it in the future if you ever needed or wanted more torque of a 383 then you would have an engine build under your belt to step up to a 383 build next time? GL

I do not know what head gasket I will use yet. He's going to skim cut the deck only a few thou'. I've also decided to reuse the stock pistons and I will reassemble the engine. I'll have to buy a ring cleaner tool so if some one can point me in the right direction I'd appreciate it.
I won't know the deck clearance until I reassemble it. Maybe I could ask him to measure it before he takes it apart tomorrow so I can know what my quench distance is pending the head gasket I choose. Then I would know if I should take a little more off the deck or leave it as a cleanup cut.

[DMT]

Originally Posted by Marshy

I do not know what head gasket I will use yet. He's going to skim cut the deck only a few thou'. I've also decided to reuse the stock pistons and I will reassemble the engine. I'll have to buy a ring cleaner tool so if some one can point me in the right direction I'd appreciate it.
I won't know the deck clearance until I reassemble it. Maybe I could ask him to measure it before he takes it apart tomorrow so I can know what my quench distance is pending the head gasket I choose. Then I would know if I should take a little more off the deck or leave it as a cleanup cut.

I thought the tool would be easy to look up, I guess not so here you go Marshy;

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/lil-24000/overview/

Have your machinist square cut the deck so it measures 9.00" of deck height that way you can use the Fel-Pro blue head gaskets that are .040" compressed thickness without loosing any compression ratio if you want to go that way? If so have the heads cut .030" to raise the compression ratio from 9.25:1 what I think you figured it to be in an earlier post to around 9.75:1 because you're using a bigger than stock cam. With the bigger cam you want to increase your compression ratio to gain back the low end torque you will loose from that bigger cam with the same compression ratio.

Here is what I found as the Vortec cam specs so you have a point of reference;

96 L31 Camshaft Profile
Intake:
Opening Closing Duration
.004 14 BTDC .004 61.5 ABDC 255 Degrees
.050 13 ATDC .050 22.5 ABDC 190 Degrees
Inlet Centerline 106.25 Degrees
Max Lift .275 X 1.5 = .412
max lift .275 x 1.6 = .440
Exhaust:
.004 62 BBDC .004 24 ATDC 266 Degrees
.050 31.5 .050 16 BTDC 195 Degrees
Exhaust Centerline 115.75 degrees
Max Lift .281 X 1.5 = .423
max lift .281 x 1.6 = ..450
Lobe Separation 111 Degrees

With this cam your intake closing point will be sooner than the aftermarket cam you have bought for your engine. Meaning you'll have a slightly lower dynamic compression ratio with the new cam than you will with the factory cam with the same compression ratio and a slightly shorter effective stroke which trades down low power to upper RPM power and will want more static compression to have the same dynamic compression as the stock cam.

The new cam will still have tons of low end but you should bump up the compression ratio a bit to at least get you back to the dynamic compression ratio the factory cam has or you may be slightly disappointed with off the line performance. I would try for even a bit more because the factory set the compression up on the safe side to run 87 octane and still be able to tow without spark knock.

With the slightly higher compression ratio will give a bit better fuel economy with and without a load. The only problem you may have is that you may need slightly higher octane when you have a heavy load. Which is what I was trying to explain in an earlier post. It depends on if the truck will be driven most of the time without a load then you may want to opt for maxing the compression ratio to run 87 without a load and mixing in about a 1/4 tank of premium when you're hauling a really heavy load as needed. If the truck is going to be a work horse and almost always have a load in it then you will want to keep the dynamic compression a bit lower so you can run 87 octane with a heavy load.

Just keep in mind that off the line performance will be down a bit with the bigger cam with the same compression the stock cam had but will wake up more in the higher RPM band. With raising the static compression so the engine at least has the same dynamic compression ratio of the stock cam will give you back your low end performance.

I'll do the dynamic compression ratio math with both cams and let you know what you have, I'll post results in a little while.

To be continued............

[Captainfab]

The '96-'02 Vortec blocks that I have seen, do have the thermostat bypass hole drilled. It is the heads that do not have the hole. The Vortec water pump has a different thermostat bypass than the '95 and earlier pumps do. There was a thread here not long ago discussing the need for a thermostat bypass, and most agreed that if you are running a heater, one is not needed. However all GEN I small blocks that I have seen, have some sort of bypass as designed by GM. So I'm thinking there must be a reason for a thermostat bypass with the hole from the water pump, thru the block and into the passenger side head.

Originally Posted by Marshy

Captin, is that hole specific to using the vortec head on non roller block? I asked my machinist if he was familiar with doing this and asked him about using the water pump off my old style 2 piece rear seal block. He told me he's never heard anything about it and has put together many engines without a bypass and used the old style water pumps without any issues. He said we could but wasn't sure what benefit it was. I told him I would ask more questions because I wasn't exactly sure... He said I'm using the vortec heads on the block they are meant for and have an aftermarket intake and shouldn't need a bypass.

[DMT]

Ok so I did the dynamic compression ratio calculations for each cam and here is what I came up with;

Stock cam 7.59:1 dynamic compression ratio calculated with 9.25:1 static
(Stock cam with 9.4:1 static has a 7.71:1 dynamic, WOW! That's high for 87 octane!)

The Lunati cam with 4* of advance 7.33:1 calculated with the 9.25:1
(Lunati cam with 4* advanced with 9.4:1 static has 7.44:1 dynamic)

I added the 4* advanced is because that is usually where an aftermarket cam will be installed, without the 4* advance the dynamic would be even lower @ 7.09:1 dynamic compression with the 9.25:1 static and as high as @ 7.44:1 with 9.4:1 static. Summit doesn't include where the cam is installed so I included both for comparison. Usually the 4* is ground into the cam so straight up will be 4* advanced.

To get the aftermarket cam to the 7.71:1 dynamic of the stock cam the static compression would need to be 9.75:1 installed 4* advanced to get the Lunati cam's ability to get you the dynamic compression the factory Vortec had of 9.4:1 static starting point is correct. But that might be kind of high without fuel injection.

The static compression ratio of an engine is only half of the story, what people really need to know when changing a cam or doing a complete build from scratch is to match the static compression ratio with the cam to get the dynamic compression ratio that will tolerate the octane rating they want to run in the RPM range they want to use it in.

Typically 87 octane will tolerate as much as 7.0:1 dynamic with the older style chamber heads with not so optimized quench with a carb. With a fuel injected engine that can take timing out if it detects knock and with better engineered combustion chambers and optimized quench can handle higher dynamic compression ratios. Which is what I forgot with this build is that it will be carbureted so the compression ratio will need to be kept in check a bit after seeing the factory dynamic compression ratio!

I looked up the actual advertised compression ratio of a sbc Vortec 350 and it is 9.4:1(and corrected the numbers above) and that puts the dynamic @ 7.71:1!! Maintaining that ratio or not going over 9.6:1 is probably a good idea to keep detonation under control without fuel injection that would retard timing if it sensed any knock with the knock sensor. Possibly only installing the cam 2* advanced to lower the dynamic compression further to 7.47:1 dynamic. With the cam installed straight up would bring down dynamic to 7.35:1 with 9.6:1.(which would probably be installing the cam 4* retarded to get it "straight up" from the specs that Summit has listed, no spec for where to install cam)

Without that ability to retard timing automatically you should probably run an 180* thermostat and a cooler spark plug range to help keep detonation from happening. Unless you don't mind running midgrade fuel? Making sure your air/fuel ratios are where they're supposed to be will go a long way to keep it from detonation as well.

Sorry, I need to remember this is for a truck and it won't have the Vortec fuel injection system on it to take out timing if the engine starts to detonate. Not in a lighter car that I have the Vortec 305 in, I needed to adjust my thinking a bit. The info above is adjusted for the no fuel injection in a truck and when I seen that the stock Vortec is running 7.71:1 dynamic compression was a dose of reality! LOL I never did the dynamic compression math for the Vortec in the car, its no wonder it runs as well as it does! I do run midgrade with it though, good thing after seeing those numbers. Cool.

So with your machinist taking off the minimum from the heads and block you need to find out the factory head gasket thickness so you keep quench in the sweet spot. If you measure how far down the pistons are in the hole at top dead center you can choose a head gasket that will give you .035" to .045" from the head surface to the piston's highest surface at top dead center. Or if you find what the factory head gasket thickness is for a sbc Vortec 350 you can have the deck machined to use the Fel-Pro blue perma-torque head gaskets. I like the Fel-Pro blue perma-torque head gaskets, torque them down once and forget about them, good to go! Dealers choice, they have only failed once for a build I did, it was a sbc 377(a sbc 400 with a 350 crank). The compression and RPM was a bit more than what they could handle on the sbc 377, they did last about 3 years in that application though.

[DMT]

Originally Posted by Captainfab

The '96-'02 Vortec blocks that I have seen, do have the thermostat bypass hole drilled. It is the heads that do not have the hole. The Vortec water pump has a different thermostat bypass than the '95 and earlier pumps do. There was a thread here not long ago discussing the need for a thermostat bypass, and most agreed that if you are running a heater, one is not needed. However all GEN I small blocks that I have seen, have some sort of bypass as designed by GM. So I'm thinking there must be a reason for a thermostat bypass with the hole from the water pump, thru the block and into the passenger side head.

I can tell you that with an old style Weiand aluminum water pump on a Vortec engine that there will be temperature spikes that will freak out most people that look at their gauges often. That's a problem that I have with my 305 Vortec but haven't been to concerned with it because even with the peddle to the metal when the temp is spiking there is no audible pinging or knocking sound so I have never concerned myself with it.

I think one fix would be to get a water pump with an heater hose fitting to go from the pump to the heater core? Not sure and what I wrote doesn't sound right, I would need to look at how a factory Vortec vehicle is setup I think to see how they run them without an issue from the factory.

Either figure out how the factory Vortec vehicles work without that issue or just drill the hole in the passenger head and run any water pump. Also remember that if you're thinking of using a Vortec water pump more than likely they are setup for reverse rotation of a serpentine system. If you have the serpentine pulleys from your core engine you would be set to run a Vortec pump. GL

[Marshy]

Thanks for the info DMT however you missed some info in my posts. That's ok because this thread is long and drawn out lol.

Recap:

Heads: L31 Vortec #062, skim cut flat, stock valves, seats re-ground + lapped
Block: 880 roller block with 1 piece RMS
Cam: Comp Cams Xtreme Energy P/N 08-408-8
Grind: XR258HR
Open/Close Timing @ .006
Intake:
23* BTDC / 55* ABDC
Exhaust:
66* BBDC / 18* ATDC
I/E Duration @ .050 = 206/212
I/E Lift @ 1.5 RR = .480/.487
LAS =110*

Intake: Edelbrock Performer 2116
Carb: Edelbrock Performer (1406) 600 cmf
Exhaust: No-Name Long tube headers

[Marshy]

Originally Posted by Captainfab

The '96-'02 Vortec blocks that I have seen, do have the thermostat bypass hole drilled. It is the heads that do not have the hole. The Vortec water pump has a different thermostat bypass than the '95 and earlier pumps do. There was a thread here not long ago discussing the need for a thermostat bypass, and most agreed that if you are running a heater, one is not needed. However all GEN I small blocks that I have seen, have some sort of bypass as designed by GM. So I'm thinking there must be a reason for a thermostat bypass with the hole from the water pump, thru the block and into the passenger side head.

Well I am running a heater core but do not want temperature swings if they can be eliminated or even reduced. I sent him your pictures and will discuss it further with him. Thermal cycles are never good so if they can be reduced then I would rather add it and not need it than need it and not do it.

[DMT]

Originally Posted by Marshy

Thanks for the info DMT however you missed some info in my posts. That's ok because this thread is long and drawn out lol.

Recap:

Heads: L31 Vortec #062, skim cut flat, stock valves, seats re-ground + lapped
Block: 880 roller block with 1 piece RMS
Cam: Comp Cams Xtreme Energy P/N 08-408-8
Grind: XR258HR
Open/Close Timing @ .006
Intake:
23* BTDC / 55* ABDC
Exhaust:
66* BBDC / 18* ATDC
I/E Duration @ .050 = 206/212
I/E Lift @ 1.5 RR = .480/.487
LAS =110*

Intake: Edelbrock Performer 2116
Carb: Edelbrock Performer (1406) 600 cmf
Exhaust: No-Name Long tube headers

Sorry I thought you went with the Lunati .492/.492 cam, oh well. Anyway with this cam it looks like you will need to run at least midgrade.

Here's the calculator I used;

http://www.wallaceracing.com/dynamic-cr.php

Use the intake closing at 55* ABDC number listed for your cam, the stock cam is 61.5*. The lower that ABDC number is, the higher the dynamic compression ratio will be.

I'm not a fan of the Edelbrock carbs, they tend to run rich at idle and cruise then go dead lean at WOT. They need a whole lot of tuning to get close to the right A/F ratios using an air/fuel gauge of some sort to get them close, but still can never get them quite right. Their AVS line of carbs seem to be a bit better but still not that great.

Good call on drilling the hole, it seems that you should be able to run any water pump with it, not so without.

You should have a good runner when you get it together, I haven't driven a sbc 350 vehicle in a long time I remember my '89 blazer was fun to drive when it use to run with its stock sbc 350 and 3.73:1 gears with a 700R4 first gear was fun! Haven't driven the sbc 305 car in years, can't now I stole the 700R4 out of it and put it in my '65 Impala behind the sbc 383 that killed the power glide. The sbc 383 is a whole lot of fun though, even with the 3.07:1 rear gears it has that 700R4 makes up for it.

[Marshy]

So I'm going to take on the majority of this assembly, more than I anticipated originally when I first talked with the builder but I'm ok with it. I wanted it that way honestly but I'm just not sure about what parts to order so I'm going to have him order my parts. He'll order me the parts and give me the block and heads painted and ready for assembly. Only thing I wont have to do is put the crank in and paint it. I've got the ring grove tool on order and I'll get those cleaned up ASAP. I need to get my truck back, I have firewood that needs moving. While Im waiting I need to figure out what I need to do for this electrical fuel pump. If you know any good threads to point me to I'd appreciate it.

[Marshy]

Originally Posted by DMT

I thought the tool would be easy to look up, I guess not so here you go Marshy;

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/lil-24000/overview/

Thanks for the link again. I have a question though because I see two types of ring groove cleaners out on the web even though they are similar to each other. Which would be better, the one through summit or this one?
https://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/p...groove-cleaner

I see that one has a third cutter and more metric options which would be good IMO because I do play with chainsaws and snowmobiles. I have a better chance of reusing this tool with the other metric cutting head vice the other one. The cutter mechanism looks slightly different and not really know how either work other than a quick youtube video (seems straight forward).

[DMT]

Originally Posted by Marshy

Thanks for the link again. I have a question though because I see two types of ring groove cleaners out on the web even though they are similar to each other. Which would be better, the one through summit or this one?
https://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/p...groove-cleaner

I see that one has a third cutter and more metric options which would be good IMO because I do play with chainsaws and snowmobiles. I have a better chance of reusing this tool with the other metric cutting head vice the other one. The cutter mechanism looks slightly different and not really know how either work other than a quick youtube video (seems straight forward).

Looks like it is almost identical to the one sold from Summit, I bet the shipping from the UK might cost more than than from Summit.

You can do a search with the part number from Summit, maybe Amazon will be cheaper or the part number from the one in the link maybe you can get one more locally? GL

Here's some more choices from Summit;

http://www.summitracing.com/search/p...ibanner=SREPD4

The UK one in the link has some weird larger sizes that wouldn't be used in a chain saw I don't think.

[DMT]

So I noticed on a different thread that you're kind of bummed out that you need to run an electric fuel pump. Does your block have the machining started in the mechanical fuel pump area but the fuel pump push rod hole doesn't go through?

My 96 305 Vortec has the machining started for a mechanical fuel pump that I would of drilled all the way through and reamed it as well to run a mechanical pump but the Vortec roller cam didn't have the fuel pump eccentric on it so I didn't bother and just plumbed in an electric pump.

So if you don't mind doing a little drilling and reaming you can run a mechanical if the machining is partially there on the block you have? If so maybe your machinist can do it for you if you don't think you would want to do that or if he doesn't charge to much? GL

[Marshy]

I checked, the hole isn't even started, just had the untapped holes to mount the pump. It would have been convenient to use a mech pump. No I have to research on how you add a oil psi relay and everything. Have to spec a regulator, figure out what the fuel line needs (return?) etc. Will probably have a switch for it also in the cab also.