Body work advice needed

[Crash0637]

I am replacing the lower front fenders with patch panels. The drivers fender is where I started, it is the worst. I decided to go ahead use the entire patch panel. After welding it up I realized that I didn't quite get the angles right nor aligned perfectly. Started comparing it the the passengers unmolested side and noticed a problem.

Not sure if I should just hammer and dolly out the low spot or if I need to cut in reliefs or if I should cut off patch panel and start completely over.

I have done some bodywork before, however this is my first major replacement. I caught my error, I want to make it right, just not sure which direction to go in.

Help and advice is greatly appreciated!.

https://ibb.co/nwP7OG
https://ibb.co/ffbnOG
https://ibb.co/mCQE3G

[mongocanfly]

here's your pics...

[mongocanfly]

I'm no bodyman by a long shot but id try hammer and dolley...if that doesnt work you may need to cut it loose and redo it..
maybe Martin will be along shortly and give you the right pointers...

[MARTINSR]

Ok, I have to assume your welds shrunk and that is what brought that down. Did you cool the welds? (BIG NO_NO) When you do the metal shrinks and gets harder.

Even if you didn't cool them, the metal still shrinks at the weld as it cools so that is what you need to do.

If the back side looks as smooth as the front side you can "planish" the metal along the weld thinning and thus stretching it out, that could get you back to flat. You planish it by putting a dolly behind it and striking the metal "on dolly" to thin it.

One thing I never understood for years, and it's so damn simple. If you end up with something like this, EVERYTHING that caused it is at the weld. If you had a big warped piece, I remember trying to fix the warp out a long way from the weld. That is SOOOO wrong, the weld is what did it, thus at the weld is where you correct it.

Brian

[northern 49]

I would start with Martin's advice, but I would also hang the fender on the truck and check your door gap. A lot of these patch panels don't have the same shape as the original, some fit really well, others not so much. When doing sections like this I like to hang the fender on the vehicle and tack the new section in place. This way I can set the gap as straight as possible.
Also, take your time welding and check for warping as you go and carefully hammer and dolly as needed.
Happy metal working!

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by northern 49

I would start with Martin's advice, but I would also hang the fender on the truck and check your door gap. A lot of these patch panels don't have the same shape as the original, some fit really well, others not so much. When doing sections like this I like to hang the fender on the vehicle and tack the new section in place. This way I can set the gap as straight as possible.
Also, take your time welding and check for warping as you go and carefully hammer and dolly as needed.
Happy metal working!

Good point there, you are right on, you want the BIG picture.

Brian

[e015475]

What you have there looks pretty much par for the course based on my limited experience. As MARTINSR says most of the deformation is locked up in the weld.

The next time you weld a patch in you might think about planishing the weld while it is still hot and alternate between welding and planishing till you've got it welded up. It seems like it is a lot easier to weld and planish if you're welding with gas instead of MIG. The MIG wire seems like it a lot harder too.

I've never been able to get the low spot out after welding by just planishing the weld and I usually have to stretch the metal a little past the heat affected zone too, then work up the low spot with a 'hammer -off'.

I find if I use a slapping spoon and a dolly, I don't have to have quite so much precision hitting the dolly and its a little easier than using a hammer and leaves the surface smoother during the stretching. I spray a light coat of flat black on the area I'm stretching so you can see everywhere you've hit with the spoon - just 'connect the dots' to get a nice even stretch.

Follow a round of stretching with a spoon and a dolly on the heat affected zone with some 'hammer off' hammer and dolly work to bring the metal up to contour.

It usually takes me a couple rounds of planishing, stretching and hammer-off dolly work to sneak up on the weld depression so very little filler is needed.

But there's always bondo when you're tired of screwing with it.

[MiraclePieCo]

Originally Posted by e015475

But there's always bondo when you're tired of screwing with it.

Bondo - good enough for Coddington and Foose. It's highly unrealistic to expect to avoid filler in bodywork. An article I read in Street Rodder magazine claimed that there were probably less than a dozen show cars in the country without some level of bondo.

[northern 49]

Evercoat's Rage Ultra is what I would recommend. Very nice to sand.

[mongocanfly]

reminds me of as a kid watching my dad weld up a cracked truck fender with his old AC stick welder with 6010s....and its still holding

[Advanced Design]

Originally Posted by mongocanfly

reminds me of as a kid watching my dad weld up a cracked truck fender with his old AC stick welder with 6010s....and its still holding

Now that would have been a trick...

[roger55]

Welding seams in the middle of a panel will always need planishing due to shrinkage.
I show many examples of that in my build thread. If you have time, browse through it. I took many photos of my patch panel work and I had several.

[mongocanfly]

yep Doug...dad was a decent welder back in the day....it was on his 57 IH 4x4....I think they stamped those things outta 1/8" sheetmetal...I didn't know what he was doing at the time but he had a copper bar he backed it up with when he welded it...
on a side note I'm secretly trying to resurrect his 57 IH 4x4 without him knowing....it hasn't run in 30yrs...I've already got a donor truck hid at a friends and am in the process of "stealing" his old one....ill be doing a build thread in alternative section soon...dads 83 so I've got to hurry...

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by mongocanfly

yep Doug...dad was a decent welder back in the day....it was on his 57 IH 4x4....I think they stamped those things outta 1/8" sheetmetal...I didn't know what he was doing at the time but he had a copper bar he backed it up with when he welded it...
on a side note I'm secretly trying to resurrect his 57 IH 4x4 without him knowing....it hasn't run in 30yrs...I've already got a donor truck hid at a friends and am in the process of "stealing" his old one....ill be doing a build thread in alternative section soon...dads 83 so I've got to hurry...

My dad missed seeing his 55 F-100 he bought in 1966 restoration finished by only months in 2004. This article when it was in Rodders Journal was so damn cool because it was more of a celebration of our family than the cars. That's him on his Harley around 1939.

Brian

[Advanced Design]

Originally Posted by mongocanfly

yep Doug...dad was a decent welder back in the day....it was on his 57 IH 4x4....I think they stamped those things outta 1/8" sheetmetal...I didn't know what he was doing at the time but he had a copper bar he backed it up with when he welded it...
on a side note I'm secretly trying to resurrect his 57 IH 4x4 without him knowing....it hasn't run in 30yrs...I've already got a donor truck hid at a friends and am in the process of "stealing" his old one....ill be doing a build thread in alternative section soon...dads 83 so I've got to hurry...

Awesome plan and look forward to the he build thread!

[_Ogre]

not to hyjack this thread...
but i love to hear the welder snobs say ''you can't use a 120v fluxcore to do that''
i say move over and let me show you how it's done

95% of truk was welded with my lincoln weldpak100
mustII, boxed frame, x-members, motor mounts, trans mount, hydroboost bracket, spring pads, all the bed fabrication and 2/3 of the sheet metal patches were welded with that bad boy

all the curves on the bed were fabricated with 2.5'' muffler pipe and flat stock

[_Ogre]

uno mas

[my56chevytruck]

my .02 worth is as some have said, if you didn't work the weld while you could, then do the bondo thing. or as northern 49 has said, use Evercoat. Start light and bring it up gradually. I learned that the wrong way, lol

[BIGglaSS]

Lots of good advice here.

Crash0637, that is sunken from welding. If it was butt welded, you should be able to work it back out by stretching the heat affected zone (HAZ). If you cut the angles wrong, you will have to cut it back off to re-align it. Also, grind the bead off the back side before hammering.

ALL welds shrink. It doesn't matter if you cool it or hammer while hot. They ALL shrink. The secret is keeping the HAZ as small as possible. ALL welds shrink = ALL welds have to be stretched.

Learning to work a weld takes a lot of practice and experience.

There are only 5 rules of metal shaping. You can CUT, WELD, SHRINK, STRETCH, or BEND metal.

Also, never lap weld on a visible surface panel.

[my56chevytruck]

Thanks Ogre, I've done all my welding with the fluxcore welding. Still holding and no ones the wiser.

[MARTINSR]

I just realized that black 39 Ford Coupe that is above the photo of my dad on the Harley, that was my brothers. I also had a Nailhead in it. He sold it around 1985 and he just bought it back a month ago! Found it on ebay in Georgia as I remember.

Brian

[Hampshire]

Late to this thread but back to the OP's original post and advice given: X 2 on the advice to tack the panel in place on the truck & absolutely to planish the welds.

...on Planishing: Back in the early 70's I got my first real education on butt welding at a new job. The first project I saw my boss do was butt weld all the major body panels repairs on a very rusty Porsche 356. Though we had a Miller 35, He did this all with an oxy-acetylene rig, steel rod, and hammers/dollys. After completing each 1" of butt weld he would "pin shrink" the weld...first heat, then hammer/dolly and finish with a quick press of a wet rag when done. The area where the seam was would end up perfectly blended into the panel(usually curved). This was time consuming and fussy work. Many more steps to complete but suffice to say that just prior to the first primer, there was no Bondo (some leading, though - in areas with complex shapes, etc.).

I ran on that first "demo" for many years after. Never achieved the level of skill my boss had, but developed a healthy respect for that level of craftsmanship. Having somebody do that type work for you today is very $$$. Fortunately the forums, local trade classes and Youtube have made access to these techniques more widely available to the DYIer.

[Crash0637]

Guys, I am blown away at the responses! I made this post last week and due to work have not really had any free time to come back and take a look at the replies.

Thank you so much everyone for taking the time to give advice to a noob. I think this is the first thread I have never started that made it to two pages!

I will look into that thread on garage journal and spend some time planishing my welds before giving into the bondo gods.

It's been an extremely long time since I updated my build thread, I am overdue. I will post a big update in the very near future.

Thank you again!