Timing showing way off tab...wits end

[YoungPup1977]

I searched YouTube for “runs like a raped ape”. It told me if the piston is truly at TDC using the correct tool, balancer is marked correctly and zero’s out at pointer on timing cover along with dizzy on correct firing cylinder, degreed camshaft during build correctly. Using all known good parts.... This FORD engine should run like a raped ape !! Wits End......

[garyd1961]

Didn't we just have another thread just like this one?

[YoungPup1977]

Yes there is and several on the internet with no solution. Must be that time of year when things start warming up. I can’t help when they can’t be helped. Call mommy !!!

Where is the timing expert ??? Figured he come in and save the day. The other guy from Canada. What’s his name again ? Bow. Bow bow !!! WhAts ur initial timing guy ? Lol!!!

My last reply on this thread.

[garyd1961]

It's just not possible for one to be that far off if it was assembled with the mark zeroed and the rotor pointed at the #1 terminal on the cap.

[Feel the 'Pane]

I'm going to bet the the cam gear (timing chain) is off 1 tooth & the spark plug wires are off 1 position to the right.

My last post as well.

[Liz]

reported by fellow members for the bs slinging. How about we behave? thanks

[garyd1961]

Why would valve timing make the spark be off.

[Chevyrestorerman]

Originally Posted by trac209

Ok so here is my issue,I recently rebuilt my engine. Bored,rings,bearings new cam,heads etc. Other than that everything from old engine is being used. Issue is when a timing light is connected (vac advance disconnected). The timing mark shows at 12 o clock position way off tab with timing light. Also tried another light same results. I have verified tdc using a stop and by compression and the balancer mark is right on zero on tab. The engine will not run when I retard timing to get near the tab. Engine starts well and doesn’t kick back or ping and revs up nicely. Doesn’t ping under load in gear either. I can’t for the life of me figure out why this is happening, I have even locked the weights in the distributor and it ran bad under load so engine doesn’t seem to be running at an actual 38-40 degrees initial timing. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

I have read this post several times....not much info to help out...
Just a few things I would consider and need a few answers to move forward:
When you say "I have even locked the weights in the distributor" What springs do you have ? Weakest springs ? Timing advancing to early even before 800 RPM ?
If in fact the engine is running at that much advance would cause the engine to have issues, starting issues, etc etc... So do you really think the engine is running at that much advance.
What type of timing light are you using ? When you used the second timing light was it different type of timing light...dial back ? Straight up ? are you getting what I am asking....

What NEW cam did you install into this engine ? I think it was already asked but are we talking a 350 cid engine here ?

Can you provide a pic of the piston stop you used.

What type of heads did you use, are they different heads than the original engine; vortec heads ?

I know this is a lot of questions but feedback on these questions hopefully will get the issue resolved. I don't want any part of the BS slinging !!!! Lets get it resolved with your answers.

One more thing, please post pics of the front of the engine.

Edited: searched the web for same issue.

I just wanted to add the following web page, after reading this web page makes me wonder if this is the same. problem never found or reported. It starts out almost as if its the same person who had this issue, make sure you read post number 8 from page 1.

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/....649643/page-5

[trac209]

Ok so here’s what was going on, the carb that was already run before in the previous setup didn’t like the new heads and extra compression. I was chasing my tail trying to get the timing down and adjust the carb. It was a combo of the engine trying to run on the idle circuit and transfer slots. So once the engine would start to idle stable the idle circuit wasn’t being utilized and it would be getting too much fuel at idle and want more timing to compensate. This was figured by opening the secondary throttle blades and the idle came up with reasonable timing and the main idle could be turned back down.

[Chevyrestorerman]

New heads, what heads were used ? Just wondering. Casting number ?

Can you provide a pic of the new engine, we all would love to see it. Thanks in advance !



$$$$$ question$$$$$$$ What was the engine's RPM when you were trying to check the timing ?

New engine, break-in RPM used ? Was the idle screw turned so the rpm was higher than actual "Idle speed" while breaking in the engine and never reset to in the area of 850 or so.

[kwmech]

Originally Posted by trac209

Ok so here’s what was going on, the carb that was already run before in the previous setup didn’t like the new heads and extra compression. I was chasing my tail trying to get the timing down and adjust the carb. It was a combo of the engine trying to run on the idle circuit and transfer slots. So once the engine would start to idle stable the idle circuit wasn’t being utilized and it would be getting too much fuel at idle and want more timing to compensate. This was figured by opening the secondary throttle blades and the idle came up with reasonable timing and the main idle could be turned back down.

I've seen that before, but not to the extent you described. I was going to suggest the chain was off until the slinging started. Had a Volvo come in that had been driven about 90k with the belt off a tooth. New belt in the correct place and it was a new car

[Chevyrestorerman]

[QUOTE=kwmech;8521823]I've seen that before, but not to the extent you described. I was going to suggest the chain was off until the slinging started. Had a Volvo come in that had been driven about 90k with the belt off a tooth. New belt in the correct place and it was a new car[/QUOte

From what I read it had nothing to do with timing at all. suggesting a tooth off was already discussed

[trac209]

[quote=Chevyrestorerman;8521914]

Originally Posted by kwmech

I've seen that before, but not to the extent you described. I was going to suggest the chain was off until the slinging started. Had a Volvo come in that had been driven about 90k with the belt off a tooth. New belt in the correct place and it was a new car[/QUOte

From what I read it had nothing to do with timing at all. suggesting a tooth off was already discussed

Exactly, the cam was installed properly and the engine was just asking for too much timing. The heads are just cheap 205 cc 2.02 1.6 valve aluminums. I may have been snippy with a few members over this post but it felt like I was just saying the same thing over and over that was in the original post. You can only say it’s not a tdc issue so many times lol.

[Chevyrestorerman]

Originally Posted by trac209

Ok so here’s what was going on, the carb that was already run before in the previous setup didn’t like the new heads and extra compression. I was chasing my tail trying to get the timing down and adjust the carb. It was a combo of the engine trying to run on the idle circuit and transfer slots. So once the engine would start to idle stable the idle circuit wasn’t being utilized and it would be getting too much fuel at idle and want more timing to compensate. This was figured by opening the secondary throttle blades and the idle came up with reasonable timing and the main idle could be turned back down.

The carb was one of those KNOWN good parts that you used before so it was eliminated from consideration because previous engine didn’t have the issue
Can you put in simple terms what you did. Did you turn the idle screw so the throttle blades where totally closed ? So carb would actually be on the idle circuit ? Sorry for so many questions but just wanting to summarize and move on. Thanks !

added: No idea of carb, Holley ?
Did you set the primary throttle blades (idle speed screw) to expose no more than .025"-.030" of the idle transfer slots ?
They're located under the primary throttle blades - must remove carburetor to measure, This is a Common problem
Open the secondary blades a little bit, in order to close the primary blades (to maintain desired idle speed).
When the idle transfer slots are exposed too much, it makes idle mixture screws useless.

[trac209]

Originally Posted by Chevyrestorerman

The carb was one of those KNOWN good parts that you used before so it was eliminated from consideration because previous engine didn’t have the issue
Can you put in simple terms what you did. Did you turn the idle screw so the throttle blades where totally closed ? So carb would actually be on the idle circuit ? Sorry for so many questions but just wanting to summarize and move on. Thanks !

added: No idea of carb, Holley ?
Did you set the primary throttle blades (idle speed screw) to expose no more than .025"-.030" of the idle transfer slots ?
They're located under the primary throttle blades - must remove carburetor to measure, This is a Common problem
Open the secondary blades a little bit, in order to close the primary blades (to maintain desired idle speed).
When the idle transfer slots are exposed too much, it makes idle mixture screws useless.

I already answered this exactly in my post.

[Chevyrestorerman]

Now I know exactly what the problem is.
Canada only has one master timing guru and the Canadian navy only has one canoe. Lol!!!!

[Feel the 'Pane]

Go to the bottom & read!

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=784056

[geezer#99]

Originally Posted by Chevyrestorerman

Now I know exactly what the problem is.
Canada only has one master timing guru and the Canadian navy only has one canoe. Lol!!!!

Not master.
Grand master!
And Saskatchewan has a navy too!

[geezer#99]

Originally Posted by Feel the 'Pane

Go to the bottom & read!

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=784056

Timing chain crank sprocket being advanced or retarded doesn’t change how the balancer bolts on. Only goes on one way with the keyway. Doesn’t effect the timing mark either.
Just sayin’!

Now where’s my canoe?

[Feel the 'Pane]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

Timing chain crank sprocket being advanced or retarded doesn’t change how the balancer bolts on. Only goes on one way with the keyway. Doesn’t effect the timing mark either.
Just sayin’!

Now where’s my canoe?

I believe it was the cam sprocket in question & not the crank sprocket.