Make it handle

[jimmydean]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

Jimmy, years ago I ended up with a '84 C4, the original car had the cross-fire injection (bad) and the 4+3 slappy auto. It was a bad car (bad, as in not good) Most of it's technology didn't work. After much frustration, I gutted the car, Put in a tuned port 383, a 5 speed from a camaro, fabbed an aluminum dash with autometer guages (none of the digital worked ) Two Cerullo buckets, (again, the 28 way adjustable seats were crap) Along with gutting the dash, all of the climate control a/c came out, I put in a Vintage Air Mini unit. Weight dropped to 3100 lbs, and it was re-born as the killer of Z-06's It was a fun car street or track, but they do rattle alot

I bought the '94 to cut up for C4 Dropmebers and use the LT1 and 4L60E as well (my car was $4k). But after driving it, I fell in love. The updated interior and drivetrain saved the Vette (they talk about it in Chevy 100) and after chasing my buddy on the backroads in his C6, I know if I had an LS3 to match his LS2, he would be doing the chasing.

The truck will still get the engine at least. Thanks again, Rob. You are such a wealth of info and your track record shows you at least have some idea what you might be talking about.

<edit> And FYI, my car has zero rattles with the top on. Now if only the heater worked, I'd be golden.

[Goats86]

OK you've got me curious. I have a 86 c10 with an 5.3 LS, 4L60E, 4 wheel disc brakes, posi, front and rear sway bars. It handles pretty well for an old truck with 200 lbs of ballast just behind the rear axle. I have already dropped the rear end about 4 inches and cut 1 coil off the stock front springs. From a "low budget" standpoint, I want to run 2 1/2 inch drop spindles. For springs 3/4 ton with 1 coil cut off? Will the ride height still be a 2 1/2 inch drop or will the stiffer spring make it drop less? Is this a decent budget fix? Will the ride suck?

[Matt R]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

http://youtu.be/pVDd6aHYC5k

Enjoy. Watch the tire shot, you can see the push (driver induced, I went in too fast) at the far end on the 180* left. Otherwise, pretty good. If you watch close, you may see the door gap shift, I think this is the latch? Anyway, it was a fun day for sure.

That was an awesome video. I found myself tensing up my muscles in the turns while sitting in my recliner

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by Goats86

OK you've got me curious. I have a 86 c10 with an 5.3 LS, 4L60E, 4 wheel disc brakes, posi, front and rear sway bars. It handles pretty well for an old truck with 200 lbs of ballast just behind the rear axle. I have already dropped the rear end about 4 inches and cut 1 coil off the stock front springs. From a "low budget" standpoint, I want to run 2 1/2 inch drop spindles. For springs 3/4 ton with 1 coil cut off? Will the ride height still be a 2 1/2 inch drop or will the stiffer spring make it drop less? Is this a decent budget fix? Will the ride suck?

Sounds like a cool project, gotta love the LS platform motors. I suggest changing only one thing at a time. Will the drop spindles make it too low with the springs you have now? Also, the cut 3/4t spring is only slightly stiffer than the 1/2t spring so the ride in not affected very much. Would you sat that it has more of a 'push' now in a hard corner, or does the back end get 'loose'? Knowing the answer can help with spring choice. What tire/wheel combo are you running, - sizes/make -

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by Matt R

That was an awesome video. I found myself tensing up my muscles in the turns while sitting in my recliner

Thanks, it was a fun day. The seat belts crack me up.

[Goats86]

Hi Rob, Thanks for the reply. I am running stock rally wheels all the way around. 7 inch front and 8 inch rear. As of now it runs pretty flat thru the corners. Seems to have a bit of a push in the corner but not too bad. Using urethane bushings all the way around. I removed all but 3 leafs in the rear. Those left I shortened 4 inches and prepped with teflon pads. Has a Helwig rear sway bar stock 1/2 ton up front. Cheapy Monroe shocks. The rear end is a narrowed Ford 8.8( I know but it got me posi and disc for cheap)

[robnolimit]

Goats86, sounds like a good set up. Tires will quickly become the limiting factor. I'm a fan of the Explorer 8.8, lots of value there. Try and dig up some stock 1/2t front springs, and start out by swapping the spindles and putting full height springs back in. Check the ride height. This will lower the CG, but, will probably raise the roll center. The truck will feel more stable, but the higher roll center may add to the push givin your front tire. For some extra drop out back, try a raised front spring hanger. This will also help by raising the anti-squat % a bit. Try to make one change at a time so you can note the changes. - let us know.

[Hard Luck]

Oh my gosh! I caught up to the rest of the class. Lots of great info.

Thanks for doing this Rob and everyone else who has been helping out with information we all need to know.

As we were talking about shocks I was wondering if these were your front reloction brackets I saw on a 68 CST. They look kind of like your rears except they are not painted "Battleship Grey". If they are yours what do they cost and if not, can we get info on the front bracket you offer?

What about moving the shock into the center of the spring like every other car has? Is this just too much work or is there no real benefit to spending our time and money there?

[butchp]

Rob is there a picture of a good g frame for a 56 chevy truck that you could post. I have installed a 76 camaro sub on my extra frame and cnoched the rear, I just picked up the plates to plate benind the sub to the middle cross member, I just read on one of the first post on this thread about skipping the welds (2" weld skip 4") I was doing to window the plates to remove wt. Then in a post you suggested to use tubes 1 1/2 .120t to build 45 angles, is that w/ plates or without. Thanks for being on here.

[BMERDOC]

Rob! I'm back and almost ready to start on making more suspension improvements. I know I'll have to go back and read up on anti-squat, anti-dive, roll center and so on but I wanted to ask a question.
Your thread has covered bump steer. You mentioned heating the steering arms and bending them back down to correct bump steer. I have obtained a new set of lower cross shafts and intend to have them drilled at 90 degree intervals to obtain 1/4 inch increments for alignment machine testing (stock, 1/4", 1/2" and 3/4") I want to take my upper cross shafts to a local machine shop to have the holes milled so as to elongate the holes as much as THEY feel comfortable with doing (you mentioned 7/8").
I also have a set of spindles going to the scrap pile that I wanna steal the steering arms off of. I want to prep by attaching a string from the t/r end at the steering arm to the t/r end on the other side and measure from that string to the frame to eliminate tire size. Do you have any info regarding where the arm should be for "correct" bumpsteer?What is your advice on heating the arms? More along the lines of cooling...Do you like to quench or cool naturally?

***EDIT*** This coulda read a lot better than I typed it out but I think you get the idea. To simplify, Is the "stock" steering arm position a good base line to keep for experimental purposes or is there a better starting point? How do you prefer to treat heated suspension components?

[moregrip]

Wow....took me 4 days to read it all....holy cr@p alot of great info.......thank you!
Couldn't come at a better time.....I'm in the planning stages of a new build.....1973 C20.....going to do my best to apply as many of the lessons learned in this thread to my 8lug
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[cory d]

i often haul a couple dirtbikes in my truck so i can only soften teh back so much. i have an short square with a flip kit, drop shackles and notch. i have about 4-4 1/2" between the axle and frame with 5 leafs and the overload. I was thinking about removing the overload and 2 smaller leafs and then putting junk yard helper leafs on it. would this be helpfull and how much travel would i want before the helpers begin to be used?

[cory d]

i plan on getting 3/4 ton coils and putting my 1 1/4" bar on. i also need to find a rear bar

[cory d]

i guess i wouldnt be able to do that with the flip kit. maybe i can figure out a way to use helper coils. probably should have so many "late night ideas"

[cory d]

quagruple post

i had 5 leafs and an overload, i now habe the 2 long and the bottem with the overload. it rides better for sure and now its level. i think im bottoming out the longer shock i have on the back

[INSIDIOUS '86]

http://www.ridetech.com/store/1973-8...hq-series.html

Rob have you tested this line of shocks at all? You recommended fox shocks and they say these are them. Either way these are what I'm planning on running unless you have a better one in mind?
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[Wasted Income]

Originally Posted by INSIDIOUS '86

http://www.ridetech.com/store/1973-8...hq-series.html

Rob have you tested this line of shocks at all? You recommended fox shocks and they say these are them. Either way these are what I'm planning on running unless you have a better one in mind?
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I have a set of ridetech coilovers for the rear. My build is still in progress, so haven't run them yet, but they get really good reviews on pro-touring.com

They look to be a very high quality unit.

[BossHogg69]

Rob (or anyone else), do you have any thoughts on using ball joint spacers to make the spindle act 'taller' for camber gain?

[Mike Bradbury]

I don't have the Ride-Tech shocks but I have the Bilstein version. The important thing is that they are the mono tube type, they work very well and I am very happy with the performance and their ability to control the bumps and curves. Handles great for a big heavy truck.

[jjzepplin]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

The whole goal of A arm swapping, and I don't know if this really works, is to increase positive 'Caster'. Stock C-10's spec out 1 or 2 degrees, but your truck will respond well to 6 to 7 deg, and more for the wide tire guys, bigger than 8". To my knowledge, nobody makes a set of arms to gain caster, may someone should. The trick is to move the lower ball joint forward about a 1/2", and the upper ball joint back about 7/8", this will keep the wheel centered and net about 8 deg. + caster.

First vocabulary word : PUSH. or Understeer, or to be TIGHT. this is when you turn the wheel, and you can feel the truck 'push' forward, not wanting to turn. It is very common for these trucks to push, especially with wider tires do to the factory geometry, - remember, they were work trucks, tractors with windows.
#2: LOOSE, or Oversteer, is when the truck turns MORE than you want. Usually the back is comin around. Trucks are light in the rear, so they get 'loose' easily.
So, we have two problems right from the start, a push going into the turn, and getting loose through and out of the turn. An increase in caster helps to eliminate the push. I am in favor of more caster, much more than I would like to add negative camber to solve the push. Much more than -1deg camber wears tires, feels twitchy, and increases rolling resistance.

I have a 73 front end. Will this work for my truck too?

[Wasted Income]

Originally Posted by Mike Bradbury

I don't have the Ride-Tech shocks but I have the Bilstein version. The important thing is that they are the mono tube type, they work very well and I am very happy with the performance and their ability to control the bumps and curves. Handles great for a big heavy truck.

LOL! I've never seen your setup before, but I like it!

I just finished mine up this weekend...

[gringoloco]

Originally Posted by BossHogg69

Rob (or anyone else), do you have any thoughts on using ball joint spacers to make the spindle act 'taller' for camber gain?

Curious, too. What about taller upper BJs?

[robnolimit]

Ok, sorry I've been away for a bit. SEMA and the fal show set have me runnin.

Yes, the RideTech coil overs are made by Fox. We use them, currently on the HellBoy, and they are a very good shock

The Bilstien is a nice piece. The 'inertia' valve is pretty hi-tech, soft at low speed, and firms up quickly at higher motion rates. This makes it a great all-around shock.

Ball joint spacers?? don't know. But, "Tall ball joints" can help. This effectively adds to the "camber gain", and may raise the roll center a bit. Lots of NASCAR hobby racers use GM truck ball joints because they are stronger than the car units. Check out HOWE racing or Speedway Motors.

[robnolimit]

Last week we swapped out our 'home modified' LCA on the JT for a set of Nate Porter's "Forward Lower" arms. I'm getting the picts together and I'll post up the info here and on the JT thread.

[robnolimit]

During the Scottsdale GoodGuys show, we went over to Dino's friday night 'get together'. Pretty impressive. A lot more trucks than I expected, and some really cool ones. Dino is a great guy for hosting this event, including drinks and food. Thanks again Dino, we had a great time. - Expect to see some picts in Street Trucks soon.