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Old 08-09-2018, 03:34 PM   #1
68ihscout
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Harmonic b

The threads on the crank are stripped ,used a chaser to clean it up and i was able to get the harmonic almost all the way before the threads gave ,i am about 1/8th inch out any suggestions. I am also wondering the old seal on the timing cover was not absolutely flush ,the new one we did is would that maybe be the difference in the shiny part isee.,, any thoughts are greatfuly apreciated.
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Old 08-09-2018, 10:44 PM   #2
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Re: Harmonic b

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The threads on the crank are stripped ,used a chaser to clean it up and i was able to get the harmonic almost all the way before the threads gave ,i am about 1/8th inch out any suggestions. I am also wondering the old seal on the timing cover was not absolutely flush ,the new one we did is would that maybe be the difference in the shiny part isee.,, any thoughts are greatfuly apreciated.
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Do the pulleys line up where it is now? Post a picture of where the end of the crank is in the balancer.

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Old 08-10-2018, 09:39 AM   #3
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Do the pulleys line up where it is now? Post a picture of where the end of the crank is in the balancer.

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I will have to educate myself on how to post a pic ,,i have not try to install the pulleys yet but i will do a test fit this weekend , thank you doc for the great idea !!
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Old 08-10-2018, 09:49 AM   #4
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I took a pic hope it shows
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Old 08-10-2018, 10:25 AM   #5
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Re: Harmonic b

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I took a pic hope it shows
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Picture looks good, now take one from the front.

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Old 08-10-2018, 10:53 AM   #6
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Re: Harmonic b

Were you trying to pull the balancer on with the original balancer bolt?

I don't know how you were trying to install the balancer, nor do I have any way of knowing the condition of the threads remaining. All I'm offering is how I install balancers and what I would do to attempt to finish your installation.

That bolt is always too short for installation purposes. Try to clean the threads up again. Find an extra long bolt that can be threaded in, all the way to the bottom of the hole. Assemble a large, extra fat washer(s) to push against the balancer. Next is a stack of high quality thrust washers. Preferably with a couple of polished stainless washers and a few drops of oil. Next is a nut that you will be turning to push the balancer in.

When you're turning a bolt that is being used as the installer, it is only pulling on a few threads at a time and wearing away the threads as it is turning. A long bolt that isn't turning, is pulling against all of the threads, the full length of the hole.

I have an assortment of old bearing and gear pullers. Among those pullers I can always find the right center bolt with the right threads that I can turn into an installer for a variety of engines.

The balancer pictured is a photo I posted on a Corvair forum, but you should be able to see that the nut is doing all the work and it is turning against oiled thrust washers.
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Old 08-10-2018, 03:44 PM   #7
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Were you trying to pull the balancer on with the original balancer bolt?

I don't know how you were trying to install the balancer, nor do I have any way of knowing the condition of the threads remaining. All I'm offering is how I install balancers and what I would do to attempt to finish your installation.

That bolt is always too short for installation purposes. Try to clean the threads up again. Find an extra long bolt that can be threaded in, all the way to the bottom of the hole. Assemble a large, extra fat washer(s) to push against the balancer. Next is a stack of high quality thrust washers. Preferably with a couple of polished stainless washers and a few drops of oil. Next is a nut that you will be turning to push the balancer in.

When you're turning a bolt that is being used as the installer, it is only pulling on a few threads at a time and wearing away the threads as it is turning. A long bolt that isn't turning, is pulling against all of the threads, the full length of the hole.

I have an assortment of old bearing and gear pullers. Among those pullers I can always find the right center bolt with the right threads that I can turn into an installer for a variety of engines.

The balancer pictured is a photo I posted on a Corvair forum, but you should be able to see that the nut is doing all the work and it is turning against oiled thrust washers.
i bought and used the correct tool for the job ,the one that shows on your picture..
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Old 08-10-2018, 03:44 PM   #8
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Picture looks good, now take one from the front.

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As soon as i get home from work ill take a frint picture. Thanks doc
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Old 08-10-2018, 08:07 PM   #9
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As soon as i get home from work ill take a frint picture. Thanks doc
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Old 08-10-2018, 08:55 PM   #10
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Re: Harmonic b

I couldn't tell you how many dozens of those I've driven on with a dead blow hammer and a block of wood, and never had them die of thrust bearing failure. Until about '68, there wasn't even a bolt holding the balancer on. Pounding them on was the only method available, unless you pulled the engine and set it up in a press...like we ever did that.
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Old 08-10-2018, 09:56 PM   #11
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I couldn't tell you how many dozens of those I've driven on with a dead blow hammer and a block of wood, and never had them die of thrust bearing failure. Until about '68, there wasn't even a bolt holding the balancer on. Pounding them on was the only method available, unless you pulled the engine and set it up in a press...like we ever did that.
yeah i have read that was just about the only way to do it before the bolt came along how big of dead blow hammer (just in case )
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Old 08-10-2018, 10:40 PM   #12
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Re: Harmonic b

Depends on how much room you have. I've used a 2 pound steel sledge and a 5 pound copper dead-blow hammer. If you have some John Henry room and a strong arm, you can use a one-pound ball peen hammer on the wood block. I've done this laying on my back under '50s and '60s trucks that way. Back in the '70s I was working on a John Deere diesel-powered tractor, replacing the sleeves. It being my first time, I asked around at the other shops (small town in Idaho-we shared information) and they showed me a picture in the factory manual of a sledge (looked to be about 2 pounds, like mine) used to strike a piece of 2X4 to drive the sleeve in.
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Old 08-10-2018, 11:20 PM   #13
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Re: Harmonic b

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Looks like it could stand to go a little farther. I will look at mine in the morning and see where it is at. At this point it looks like the dead blow hammer or putting a Healicoil in it are your only choices.

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Old 08-11-2018, 07:30 AM   #14
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Re: Harmonic b

I would pull it back off and start over , Make sure there are no burrs on the crank snout or inside the damper and clean up the threads as bestyou can , When installing a new crank seal it's best to remove the timing chain cover and check the chain/gears while you already have it down that far and install the new seal while the cover is off , applying a small amount of grease on the inside of the seal will help retain the spring in the seal from popping off on assembly again a small amount of grease applied to the damper snout and light oil to the crank snout will help with assembly . I use a small amount of the old brown Permatex on the metal seal it's self before installing into the timing cover to help seal it up .Nothing worse than going thru all this only to have it leak worse or have the timing chain go bad a week later .

I've installed dozens of them using the wood block and 2 lb hammer (back in the 70's we didn't have fancy installation tools ) And I've never had a bottom end come loose from doing it that way , I just installed a new damper a few weeks ago and used the tool .

Before reassembling everything use a thin piece of cord and with the pulleys installed run the cord around to check your alignment before bolting it all back together .
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Old 08-11-2018, 02:03 PM   #15
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I would pull it back off and start over , Make sure there are no burrs on the crank snout or inside the damper and clean up the threads as bestyou can , When installing a new crank seal it's best to remove the timing chain cover and check the chain/gears while you already have it down that far and install the new seal while the cover is off , applying a small amount of grease on the inside of the seal will help retain the spring in the seal from popping off on assembly again a small amount of grease applied to the damper snout and light oil to the crank snout will help with assembly . I use a small amount of the old brown Permatex on the metal seal it's self before installing into the timing cover to help seal it up .Nothing worse than going thru all this only to have it leak worse or have the timing chain go bad a week later .

I've installed dozens of them using the wood block and 2 lb hammer (back in the 70's we didn't have fancy installation tools ) And I've never had a bottom end come loose from doing it that way , I just installed a new damper a few weeks ago and used the tool .

Before reassembling everything use a thin piece of cord and with the pulleys installed run the cord around to check your alignment before bolting it all back together .
thank you for very good advice , i did install a new timing chain sprocket kit ,previous person who worked on this engine was a hack .
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Old 08-11-2018, 02:05 PM   #16
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Looks like it could stand to go a little farther. I will look at mine in the morning and see where it is at. At this point it looks like the dead blow hammer or putting a Healicoil in it are your only choices.

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the hammer probably ,i dont think the healicoil is strong enough to pull dampner in , thanks doc i really apreciate your patience
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Old 08-11-2018, 04:48 PM   #17
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Re: Harmonic b

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the hammer probably ,i dont think the healicoil is strong enough to pull dampner in , thanks doc i really apreciate your patience
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Probably going to be your best bet. I couldn't see any of mine well enough to tell how they compare to yours.

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Old 08-11-2018, 05:52 PM   #18
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Re: Harmonic b

It looks like it has further to go. If you listen to the sound when you drive it in, it will be quite different when the balancer bottoms onto the crank. BTW, DO NOT strike the outer ring when you drive the balancer on. It is possible to dislodge it, if the elastomer part is old and brittle.
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Old 08-11-2018, 07:38 PM   #19
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Re: Harmonic b

I have witnessed the key be dislodged from its groove in the crank and prevent the harmonic balancer from fully seating...usually happens if the key itself has some knicks in it or the harmonic balancer was not lined up correctly with the key slot.

It looks from your pic that the balancer has about 3/8" to go before being seated...just the right amount of misalignment caused by a dislodged key...

As previously mentioned by others, you should be using a threaded pusher style installer bolt that fully threads into the crank itself, then the nut is tightened to ull the balancer on...

Or you can also use a BFH as mentioned, but room to swing is always a concern...

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Old 08-11-2018, 08:44 PM   #20
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Re: Harmonic b

I have known some animals who used a pneumatic chisel with a flat tip to run the balancer home. I'm not one of those animals.
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Old 08-11-2018, 09:44 PM   #21
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I have witnessed the key be dislodged from its groove in the crank and prevent the harmonic balancer from fully seating...usually happens if the key itself has some knicks in it or the harmonic balancer was not lined up correctly with the key slot.

It looks from your pic that the balancer has about 3/8" to go before being seated...just the right amount of misalignment caused by a dislodged key...

As previously mentioned by others, you should be using a threaded pusher style installer bolt that fully threads into the crank itself, then the nut is tightened to ull the balancer on...

Or you can also use a BFH as mentioned, but room to swing is always a concern...

I did use the right tool (threaded as far as it could go),just my threads gave out just before it was dully seated
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Old 08-11-2018, 09:47 PM   #22
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I have known some animals who used a pneumatic chisel with a flat tip to run the balancer home. I'm not one of those animals.
kind if like the previous owner of my sons truck ..🤢
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Old 08-12-2018, 09:44 AM   #23
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I am waiting for hardware store to open so i can buy a dbhammer 48oz in the meantime , could some of you describe what the BFH means to you 😊😊 sledge hammer comes to mind for me ,..
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Old 08-12-2018, 10:00 PM   #24
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Probably going to be your best bet. I couldn't see any of mine well enough to tell how they compare to yours.

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i got the hammer and wood ,went in about 1/8 inch ,beat it some more and it sounded solid to me ,we put everything back on and belts line up goodso far...
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Old 08-12-2018, 10:06 PM   #25
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Re: Harmonic b

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i got the hammer and wood ,went in about 1/8 inch ,beat it some more and it sounded solid to me ,we put everything back on and belts line up goodso far...
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Good deal. Glad you got that solved.

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