Do i really need IFS

[Guyz55]

I have a 1955 2nd series 3100 that I am restoring and I am not as knowledgeable mechanically as most . Front brakes are manual as is the steering . I was thinking about replacing the stock front end with a hub to hub "Fat Man" front end which is costly . What would that get me and do I really need it .

Would I be better off swapping in front disc brakes and power steering ?
Maybe replacing the shocks ?

I am just looking for some helpful advice on what I should do front end wise.

I also need to replace or rebuild the motor (350)

it also needs wheels and tires ,a new interior and im replacing the bed wood
new exhaust from the manifolds back

any help or advice would be greatly appreciated

thanx

[nvrdone]

looks like you've got a great truck to start with. suspension replacement all depends on what you want to accomplish. if you want the truck to drive like a new one, ifs with discs & p/s is the way to go but its costly & a lot of work. in my opinion, don't cheap out & use a clip where you cut & weld the frame. a bolt in with a cross member is much better.
you can do a search on this forum & find many different ways & opinions on how to do this.
on my "49 ive got a sids dropped axle, disc brakes & manual steering with a sway bar. does it drive like a new truck ? no way, but its lots of fun. makes me feel line im in touch with every bump in the road.
good luck

[curmudgeon]

Think and plan what your ultimate goal of your truck will be, restored original, cruiser, lowered custom, daily driver, work truck?? A restored, restomod direction would mean for example, swapping the 350 for a 265. I feel that the cost of upgrading the stock front to disc brakes, power steering and rebuilding the front end, springs,etc. will come close to ifs, however, if you go ifs, are you then going to consider a 4-link in the rear?

I personally feel that, unless you are seeking a original restoration the drivability, handling, comfort and increased stopping power of an ifs is worth the conversion. I have a Fat Man ifs and 4-link in my '54 and will vouch for the quality and design of their products as well as their excellent customer service.

[paulspickupparts]

Nice looking project.

I always felt the suspension should match the engine . I beam axle and 6 cylinder go well together . Speed is usually slow which matches the suspension.

You already have a small block . If it is mild your might still be ok. How fast do want to cruise? Not so much fun if you do a lot of town driving without power steering. If you have ever drove one without power steering and then with , it is really hard to go back to not power.

Install a built Ls you may have a handful .

All depends on your goal down the road . If you do plan on a healthy engine build Ifs should probably be considered . The faster you go the better brakes you need.

A front clip that fits really nice and all sorts of options is from a 72 Chevy pickup . Frame widths and heights are identical . Makes for a very clean sub frame . I have seen one metal finished and from the outside of the frame rail you could not tell it was not original . Disc brakes and power steering, motor mounts and a lot of options with drop springs and spindles . I beleive 73 and up(Chevy Pickup) may also work but would have to check frame dimensions.

I know a lot have used Camaros subs but they look like a mismatch .

I think several companies even make a bolt in Ifs.

All of the above depend on your skill level , budget , future plans , and end goal. Start with a plan

Good luck .

[Kabwe]

There is nothing wrong with the clip if you have the right person installing it. There are ways to install a clip that look great and ride great. You do not have to 4 link you can use leaf springs and be just fine. If you want the rear lower simply flip the rearend on top of the leaf springs, lower still? Use lowering blocks. There are many options out there and none of the proven ones are bad choices. Its all about what you want, ease of installation, and skill level. As far as do you need IFS, only you can decided that. I know people who would never have a truck without IFS and I also know people who like their straight axle. Its a personal choice. One this that is a fact is that you will never get an straight axle to ride like a IFS that is installed correctly. That is not an opinion that is a fact. Its because of the design. See when you hit a dip or bump with a straight axle both wheels will be at the the point of impact. When IFS the wheels move independent of each other. You can make a straight axle ride better but not even close to a correctly installed clip or aftermarket IFS.

There are a heck of a lot of options out there do you research and do what is right for you. Take into account things like skill level, ease of installation, proven donors if going clip, availability of parts, etc.

[mongocanfly]

I would and am on my truck..I'm using flatout crossmember with vette suspension...

[_Ogre]

careful. it is a slippery slope

imo... it all depends on what you want to use the truck for
local cruiser? stock suspension worked for the last 50 yrs, though rebuilding the king pins and spring pins do wonders there too
i knew i wanted a highway cruiser, i average 5000 miles per summer on truk, thus i went with the fatman ifs and a lot more

but the ifs will drop the front end low, the rearend should come down a similar amount
thus the slippery slope begins... updated rearend, ac, power everything

btw, good looking truck

[Dan in Pasadena]

Bam is right -listen to him!

Ogre is right too, it IS a slippery slope. I fully intended to install a dropped straight axle, Posie's Super Slider springs, new gas shocks, power steering, I even bought a disc brake kit, etc. BUT, I read as you will that the cost will be nearly the same as some of the IFS options - true.

Then a new-in-box-never-installed Fatman Fabrications IFS kit fell in my lap for hundreds cheaper than a full retail one, I bought it and I had begun sliding down the slippery slope. See my build thread for details.

You know your own taste, will you be unsatisfied if it "drives like a truck" - because that expression came from these early straight axle, manual steering and brakes trucks. If improving on that is enough for you, you have your answer. If you suspect you'll regret not doing more....you will. Again, there's your answer. At least it was for me. Best of luck and please post your progress with photographs. Best, Dan

[Dan in Pasadena]

Originally Posted by mongocanfly

I would and am on my truck..I'm using flatout crossmember with vette suspension...

PS: This is what I am doing too, and more.

[MARTINSR]

I can't say enough, it really depends on your expectations and use of the truck. The big thing is are you expecting too much?

I personally have towed trailers, drag raced, and driven every day my truck with an I beam axle. I drive a stone stock 59 Rambler now, no power anything, and drum brakes, it does have IFS, but that's it.

My co-worker had a nice AD with a dropped axle and drum brakes with a later six in it. I couldn't believe how nice that sucker drove! I sold my frame with a Camaro clip after driving that truck.

But if you are really putting a bunch of miles driving long distance, high speed, lots of curves, towing a big trailer, I would say upgrade to the IFS and discs and power steering.

Not to say you couldn't do all that with the I beam, I mean it WAS being done every day in 1960 right? So it's not impossible and don't listen to the "can drive on modern highways" line, that cracks me up every time I hear it. YOU drive how your vehicle should be driven, the road doesn't drive for you.

Brian

[mr48chev]

One of the most loaded questions out there.

Remember that guys drove these trucks with pretty stout engines in them lowered and what not for a lot of years before swapping to independent front ends became the thing. I ran a 57 Panel with a real stout 327 for a while in the 70's when no one thought about subframes or suspension swaps or frame swaps.

Curmegdon's first paragraph in post 3 pretty well sums it up. What do you want to do with the truck and how do you want it to ride and handle.
A dropped axle or lowering springs will drop the truck and still drive pretty decent. Disk brakes help it stop quicker.

There are hundreds options out there as far as independent fronts ends go. A search though the pages here show that guys have used the Camaro/trans AM swap, used every brand of Mustang II style suspension Used Jag XJ front ends out of the late 70's early 80's and a few more. Some work better than others some cost less and some cost more.

If you want to do a swap you might take a look at the crossmember that Steve at Industrial Chassis puts out for TF trucks that uses Dodge Dakota suspension pieces. Depending on how well you can bargain for the suspension pieces the cost should come in around 800 bucks give or take. The only rub for some guys is that you end up with a Ford or Dodge bolt pattern on the wheels. http://www.industrialchassisinc.com/?page_id=281

Still I'd have to say in many cases you don't really need an independent front end unless that is what you yourself wants to build the truck the way you want it. As long as you build it so it is safe on the roads in all respects it doesn't really matter what suspension you have.

Personally I've changed horses in the middle of the stream on what I want for suspension so many times in the past few years that my feet have never dried out. I've got a Jag XJS front end that someone hacked a bit for bags out in my stash that I drove 200 miles to get one Saturday morning. I've also got the crossmember and A arms for a Mustang II setup made by that nameless organization out of Portland Oregon that sold suspect suspension pieces that some guys love but some are scared of. That will go under a light weight roadster with a 1600 dual cam 4 banger one of these days because it won't weigh much and I won't be scared of it there. I'm wanting one of the Industrial Chassis units and already have the Dakota donor truck that I bought for 200. I might Craigslist the other stuff and hopefully have enough to spring for the crossmember. 

[Warrens69GMC]

Industrial Chassis Dakota kit

http://www.industrialchassisinc.com/?page_id=2011

[Indian113]

I have a Camaro clip in storage just in case I run across 55-59 1/2 ton but I have done them and I really like the way they handle and ride. Plus I'm old school and really Hate rubber band wheels and No sidewall tires. I want my truck low but not laying frame, that's just not me. If you want to go that route have at it Thank God everybody is different it would be a boring world if we all like the same thing.

[1project2many]

I spent years working on vintage racecars. It's funny that folks think solid axles are junk yet we could make a car with two solid axles go around a track as fast as a later chassis with IFS. And depending on the variables, the massive Buick drums used on some of those old racers stopped as quickly as the discs on some newer chassis. These days folks seem to think stuffing a late frame, or half of one, under a truck with poor weight distribution, cramped space, and little re-engineering makes the old buggy like a new ride. meh. It's expensive, time consuming, and more than once it's been the reason for an unfinished project to be sold at a loss.

There's a *bunch* of room for improvement in the old front end. The steering arms, tie rods and drag links are small for the force required to control larger, soft radial tires used today. And although they are not the weakest links in the chain, the steering column/shaft and box are also undersized if you want the feeling of positive steering control. There is no sway bar, either. And the drums, while they can stop an empty 1/2 ton truck well enough, are not well sized for a heavy load or hard stop and go driving. So it sounds like there's no win either way, eh?

Here's my take on making brake and front end improvements: If you aren't in a position to tie up the truck and a garage with a project that might take years, working with the stock front end allows progress in smaller steps. It's possible to start with replacing the kingpins, tie rod ends, and other wear items to restore system integrity then move to a larger tie rod and front sway bar to make a real, noticeable improvement over an old, stock front end. Once the front end is back together you can plan your next steps. Larger front brakes, whether disc or drum, will move the brake balance away from the rear of the truck which is definitely a good thing. Adding a power assist system could be accomplished with a Hydrovac without disturbing the OE master cylinder location. You can look at beam axle systems on different vehicles throughout the models and years to locate stronger components to increase steering control as well. With planning you could install these parts without major disassembly and downtime for the truck. Rebuilding the stock steering box isn't easy but it can be cheaper than replacing the box with an aftermarket or later part that requires fabrication, and if you're patient you might score a stock box to rebuild outside the truck then install later.

Keeping time and cash invested to a minimum will allow you to upgrade other parts of the truck at the same time and if a deal like Dan's falls into your lap then you can change direction without losing big on what you've already done. You could drive the truck sooner, or more often and based on what you learn on the road you could decide how much further you want to take it.

[58CameoAZ]

^^^^^
1project2many, I think is giving you some very good advice!

Allen

[lv2tri2]

Originally Posted by Kabwe

There is nothing wrong with the clip if you have the right person installing it. There are ways to install a clip that look great and ride great. You do not have to 4 link you can use leaf springs and be just fine. If you want the rear lower simply flip the rearend on top of the leaf springs, lower still? Use lowering blocks. There are many options out there and none of the proven ones are bad choices. Its all about what you want, ease of installation, and skill level. As far as do you need IFS, only you can decided that. I know people who would never have a truck without IFS and I also know people who like their straight axle. Its a personal choice. One this that is a fact is that you will never get an straight axle to ride like a IFS that is installed correctly. That is not an opinion that is a fact. Its because of the design. See when you hit a dip or bump with a straight axle both wheels will be at the the point of impact. When IFS the wheels move independent of each other. You can make a straight axle ride better but not even close to a correctly installed clip or aftermarket IFS.

There are a heck of a lot of options out there do you research and do what is right for you. Take into account things like skill level, ease of installation, proven donors if going clip, availability of parts, etc.

Happy to see you on here again, your build has been a big help.

[Coupeguy2001]

I have had my truck for 45 years. I just started doing what was necessary to keep it driveable with the goal of "not down longer than a week."

In the scheme of things, I should have used 2 weeks........

But I finally put it down for 4 months and put a subframe in it, and I enjoy it a lot more.

I did not do much more than the intended goal, which was to make it turn and stop,
Hence, parts of the truck is still original.

So, when I retire, I still have something to do instead of just give it to the grand kids.

My point is do it gradually, or it will just remain a memory as to why you liked it in the first place.
If you improve the front, fix the engine, and work on the brakes, in that order, you will have that thing down for a year (if you have a job) in your spare time.

If you fix the brakes, drive it till you are satisfied that you went in the right direction, and stop as good as you expected,
Then take the engine out for a month and rebuild it. Now your brakes will stop it.
THEN take your time and decide what you want it to drive like, how you are going to use it, and then fix the front accordingly.

[joedoh]

all great advice in here, one thing I dont see mentioned though is lowering. you need to know that a drop axle will always be a specific number of inches off the pavement, even if you change springs or use adjustable suspension. so if you have a big drop axle and it is 3 inches off the ground and you change springs, the truck goes up, the axle beam stays 3 inches off the ground. install air bags, even at max lift, you have 3 inches of ground clearance. there is no way to increase the ground clearance with a solid axle except to change the overall diameter of the front tires.

thats my only point, my opinion is I like IFS but agree its not for everyone

[1958Warrior]

No you don't need it, Your truck has made it 62 years without it.
Do you want it?, you say that your not "knowledgeable mechanically as most".
So are your pockets real deep to pay someone to install it?
Fatman,Scotts Wideride,ect are expensive , unless Nvrdone is going to start writing you checks, nothing wrong with Camaro / Firebird/ TA's subframes they are a very good economical way to add IFS, powersteering, and front disc brake in one shot for about $500.Can get parts cheap from Rockauto, and find in any part store.
But there is no rush to get it done, get what you have in good running order, if the engine is going out in it get it rebuilt, go thru your brakes make sure you have good brake lines ,I would replace them if you don't know if they have been replaced, very cheap insurance and peace of mind. You will have stop and go covered.
Study some builds No limits has a good video, But you can also search No limits threads
for Camaro clip install also Lux Blue on the H.A.M.B has a good thread, study other build threads with MustangII style suspensions. Lot of knowledge here and over on the HAMB and Stove Bolt site as well.
In the mean time if you don't have a welder get one and practice welding junk together to build some skill ,then when the time comes to repair a broken shock bracket or weld in a IFS you will be prepared .

[Guyz55]

THANK YOU TO ALL who have posted information on the IFS ..all great information . I have been doing some research /thinking and it would be far less expensive to buy a late model chassis that would fit my 55 ...It would come with everything I need for the front end and I would also get the the power steering and rear disc brakes as well for far less money .once I had the "rolling " frame I could upgrade what needed upgrading .so if anyone has swapped in a late model GM frame to a 55 3100 2nd series please let me know what frame (c10/Tahoe/) etc u used. The advice on this forum is always phenomenal ...once I have this issued squared away , it will be time to discuss motor and trans ....thank you all again

[lynx5653]

If you want to change chassis then go with 73-87 c10. EZ-Chassis swap has a kit that will make the conversion much easier than building your own mounts.

I have a 55 sitting on a 86 chassis and am building an 58 on a 87 chassis. the 55 was already done when I bought it and needs to be lowered some the above mentioned kit was not used.

When time and money are in sinc I will start the 58.

Best of luck with your build and make it what you want don't go with the flow. just my 2cents

[Fiftee3]

First off, Great looking truck there. Love a 55!
So it does not say if you ever drove the truck or not.
Lot of great info here from all the others. And, I agree with all.
I will tell you my experience if it may hep. Got my 53, was shocked when I drove it the first time. I thought I would use as a daily driver (thats how I convinced the wife!) Didn't drive anything like my 56 210.
Long story short, got new tire, front shocks, rebuilt king pins, replaced drag link, replaced front drums with disc kit, remover 1 leaf from front springs, replaced trans to T5 and presto, better driving.
However, while it did drive pretty good, and alignment (very important) was fair, highway and higher speed roads were a little of a white knuckle experience. And it was really when hitting these NJ potholes, or worse, ruts in the road. So, I went to IFS.Mainly for better ride, hopefully (not on road yet) and I wanted it to be bagged.
IMO to drive these in today's world, IFS, seat belts and good brakes are essential.
I will tell you though, these projects snowball. Mine started with IFS, then 4 link, rear, new stainless brake lines etc. Kinda like, well, Im here, might as well do this. My 1-2 month project is probably into a year. Work, kids, honey do list, funding, ect.
As said by others, skill level is key. Welding is great, but there are some terrific bolt ons as well.
If your gonna go to a cruise in here and there, you may be fine. If you really want to get in and drive it, IFS may be for you.
Still waiting to drive mine for the first time, maybe I'll resurrect this post in a few months and say, "why did I waste my money and time", but I am hopeful the ride will be improved.

Best of luck with your build. If anything, it is fun. For some, like me, building it, making changes, upgrades, etc, is what does it! Like when we were kids and had trains. Playing with them was great, but changing the layout and adding on was best! All the best and Merry Christmas to you and yours...

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by Guyz55

THANK YOU TO ALL who have posted information on the IFS ..all great information . I have been doing some research /thinking and it would be far less expensive to buy a late model chassis that would fit my 55 ...It would come with everything I need for the front end and I would also get the the power steering and rear disc brakes as well for far less money .once I had the "rolling " frame I could upgrade what needed upgrading .so if anyone has swapped in a late model GM frame to a 55 3100 2nd series please let me know what frame (c10/Tahoe/) etc u used. The advice on this forum is always phenomenal ...once I have this issued squared away , it will be time to discuss motor and trans ....thank you all again

My opinion on that is don't do it, personal opinion here.

If you want a late model truck just buy one and drive it. The reason I drive my old cars is not only because what they look like, it's because of what they ARE.

Driving my 59 Rambler every day is a treasure, I wouldn't want a modern chassis under it if it were free and would magically appear tomorrow. I drive it like it is because it's different, because it feels different, not just looks different.

Something to think about.

Brian

[dsraven]

decide what you want to do with the truck, then price it all out before you start, add some for things found while its apart.

-do you wanna drive the freeway? (overdrive trans and /or upgrade rear axle)
-do you wanna park in todays narrow parking spots without going forward and back a few times? (power steering)
-do you want to be safe (seatbelts with shoulder belts)
-do you want something that is fuel efficient? (fuel injected engine, like an LS chevy)
-do you wanna stop before rear ending the new vehicle in front of you? (good brakes and brake bias set up properly)

[55dude]

it's all about your budget! don't rule out any front clip options or frame swaps. i had a guy buy a flatbed off a old 58' 3/4 ton and he rolled up in what looked like a killer 66' chevy 4x4, turns out it was actually a 66' chevrolet body on a toyota tacoma chassis! he had even used the toyota dash and until i started crawling around you couldn't tell. lots of donor vehicles out their that would work great to upgrade your truck.