'66 Sunbeam Minx Project - F20C/6sp/4-link/Discs...

[67cheby]

Originally Posted by Frizzle Fry

Guess I'll have to start a thread once we really get rollin on it. We will be taking the opposite approach of the Driftbeam: Keep It Simple! That way it has a chance of being ready to drive when he is

LOL...i understand, my son is 10 thinking about buying a Square body C10 to start on for him as soon as mine is done !

[Frizzle Fry]

Originally Posted by OLDIRON69

Famous last words!

I know... But I have demonstrated the ability to keep it simple before (once), with my 64.

Originally Posted by 65Pickup

Nice Father/Son project, always liked the type 3's, the look on his face says it all.
...and a little inspiration.

Oh yeah! It's getting dropped and two tone fo sho! Stock wheels/caps until if/when he decides to spend his money on wheels.

Originally Posted by mcbassin

Lucky kid you've got there. Congrats on adding to the herd
Posted via Mobile Device

He bought it with his money

Originally Posted by 67cheby

LOL...i understand, my son is 10 thinking about buying a Square body C10 to start on for him as soon as mine is done !

Do it! My 8yo already says he wants the 61 stepside/vettruck

[76C10Stepside]

Originally Posted by Frizzle Fry

Keep the grinder moving, run the abrasive across the seam laterally, and hit the weld from both sides. Sure would be nice to find an angle grinder that can reverse direction.

By laterally, do you mean alternate passes from both sides at a 45-degree angle? I know what you mean about a reversible grinder, though you'd need a way to lock it in place so it does not spin off. When using a wire wheel in a VSR, I switch off running it each direction. After so many passes in one direction, the wires get dull. Reversing it presents fresh, sharp edges. Speeds up the job considerably.

I recently bought a powder coating system and found a used stove for free. Looking forward to powder coating everything in sight!

That's a solid-looking 68 Squareback you have there! I had a 67 Beetle that I loved. My neighbor across the street had a beautiful Notchback that I coveted. The Fastbacks were cool too.

This 69 Corvair Monza--one of only 5000 built in the last year of the Corvair's 10 years of production--is awaiting my son's return. The plan is a father/son restoration then give it to him. It's a "little rough". A PO replaced the right quarter panel, skip sanded all over the place, leaving patches of bare metal, alternating with Bondo in all the little knicks and dents, and left several quarter-sized rust holes in it. And accidentally smashed the windshield. Interior is all original and intact, and it's complete except for a few brake parts. I love the sheet metal on these older cars. So easy to work!

[68 TT]

Always liked the square backs. Great project for you two.

My six year old daughter asked me to buy her a car yesterday. The pace I go she might get a drivable car by the time she gets out of college.

[65Pickup]

The VW got us all distracted, thanks for the exhaust lesson. Great article, lots to take in. I put Borlas on my truck, now I have to measure to see what my collector/muffler combo is. Who would think a muffler six feet from the collector would be considered an extension of the collector. Cheers

[watahyahknow]

maibe put these on there

it looks like they done a lot of work to the car allready , just hope its still complete , buing the small parts can add up in a hurry

[Frizzle Fry]

Originally Posted by 76C10Stepside

By laterally, do you mean alternate passes from both sides at a 45-degree angle?

Here's what I mean. The outside edges of the seam are better blended down to the surface level be hitting them like this:

Originally Posted by 76C10Stepside

I recently bought a powder coating system and found a used stove for free. Looking forward to powder coating everything in sight!

I recently learned a few extra steps for achieving quality powdercoating:

1. Even clean metal should be blasted to give it some "tooth"
2. Hot Pre-Bake the 450-500 degrees
3. Wipe down with Isopropal Alcohol (after cooling)
4. Use a powdercoating primer
5. Powdercoat

Originally Posted by 76C10Stepside

That's a solid-looking 68 Squareback you have there! I had a 67 Beetle that I loved. My neighbor across the street had a beautiful Notchback that I coveted. The Fastbacks were cool too.

My first car was a 67 Bug. I rolled it when I was 15 I love the notchbacks. In fact I have a saved search for them on CL and eBay The SB is very solid. The body is ready for sanding and paint; it's that straight. The only rust on the whole car is under the battery. Easy fix.

Originally Posted by 76C10Stepside

This 69 Corvair Monza...

I'm familiar with them. Great find! Very cool

Originally Posted by 68 TT

Always liked the square backs. Great project for you two.
My six year old daughter asked me to buy her a car yesterday. The pace I go she might get a drivable car by the time she gets out of college.

This is gonna depend on his level of motivation. I told him I will only work on it when he does. So far so good.

Originally Posted by 65Pickup

The VW got us all distracted, thanks for the exhaust lesson. Great article, lots to take in. I put Borlas on my truck, now I have to measure to see what my collector/muffler combo is. Who would think a muffler six feet from the collector would be considered an extension of the collector. Cheers

It's pretty eye opening for sure. I've been aware of the theory for years now, but this is the first opportunity I've had to implement it. We'll see how it goes. I can't think of a downside other that weight and fab time.

Originally Posted by watahyahknow

maibe put these on there...
it looks like they done a lot of work to the car allready , just hope its still complete , buing the small parts can add up in a hurry

Fuchs are always a winner. Porsche now offers them in 19" The car is complete. Was just partially disassembled for paint. Your right, small parts add up fast!

[76C10Stepside]

Originally Posted by Frizzle Fry

Here's what I mean. The outside edges of the seam are better blended down to the surface level be hitting them like this:

I recently learned a few extra steps for achieving quality powdercoating:

1. Even clean metal should be blasted to give it some "tooth"
2. Hot Pre-Bake the 450-500 degrees
3. Wipe down with Isopropal Alcohol (after cooling)
4. Use a powdercoating primer
5. Powdercoat

WOW! Pictures with the circles and arrows and everything! :-)
That's how I grind my welds, but my welds are very messy. Just have a wirefeed welder.

Bake the part before powdercoating?
I read that a convection oven is best. Do you use a convection oven?
Is powdercoating primer necessary when the metal is sufficiently rough?
Also read that some powdercoating paints are more porous than others. I got the MATTE BLACK from Harbor Freight. It was the only black they had. Not sure how good it is, but if it lasts 4-5 times as long as paint I'll be happy!

[watahyahknow]

he means that when you want to hit the top of the circle going clockwize intoo the groove when you want to get extra penetration intoo the steel on the left side and the hit with the bottom of the circle going clockwize for the left side

if i get the gas for my welder im going to try it , nathan from porterbuild showed it to me this way too but i gues it takes practice to run realy nice welds the way he does them

[Frizzle Fry]

Originally Posted by 76C10Stepside

WOW! Pictures with the circles and arrows and everything! :-)
That's how I grind my welds, but my welds are very messy. Just have a wirefeed welder.

Bake the part before powdercoating?
I read that a convection oven is best. Do you use a convection oven?
Is powdercoating primer necessary when the metal is sufficiently rough?
Also read that some powdercoating paints are more porous than others. I got the MATTE BLACK from Harbor Freight. It was the only black they had. Not sure how good it is, but if it lasts 4-5 times as long as paint I'll be happy!

I'm using a mig too. That powdercoating process was described to me by the shop I went to for some of my larger parts. I can tell you the finish is much more durable than what I did myself with just powder over clean metal.

Originally Posted by watahyahknow

he means that when you want to hit the top of the circle going clockwize intoo the groove when you want to get extra penetration intoo the steel on the left side and the hit with the bottom of the circle going clockwize for the left side

if i get the gas for my welder im going to try it , nathan from porterbuild showed it to me this way too but i gues it takes practice to run realy nice welds the way he does them

Those drawings show how to blend welds smooth with a flap disc.

[watahyahknow]

[Jvsapp]

Originally Posted by Frizzle Fry

That powdercoating process was described to me by the shop I went to for some of my larger parts. I can tell you the finish is much more durable than what I did myself with just powder over clean metal.

being that i do powdercoating, let me add to this...
the pre-baking the parts allows the metal to out gas. any impurities in the metal will move to the surface when the metal is heated. ESPECIALLY with aluminum. i find somewhere around 350-400 degrees for 15-20 min is normally sufficient. if there is any oil residue it will bake off. as for cleaning with alcohol after that's an extra step to ensure cleanliness. any bit of oil, even from your hands will affect the finished product. the primer step adds one more layer of protection. they sell good out gas killer primer powders out there. if you want your powder to go on smooth that's the best way to do it. also powder can be treated like paint afterwards. you can cut and buff it like you would a automotive finish. it all depends on how thick you lay it too.

if your part is steel and you take it straight from the blaster, blow it off and right into the oven, most times you can get away with just using powder directly on it. aluminum if it's sat around for a while outside in the elements i would ALWAYS pre-bake.

i've had some jobs that were nightmares. stripping powder off a part that out gassed is a PITA. like they say do it once do it right.

if you wanna see some of what i've done check out my link in the sig.

[Jvsapp]

Originally Posted by 76C10Stepside

Bake the part before powdercoating?
I read that a convection oven is best. Do you use a convection oven?
Is powdercoating primer necessary when the metal is sufficiently rough?
Also read that some powdercoating paints are more porous than others. I got the MATTE BLACK from Harbor Freight. It was the only black they had. Not sure how good it is, but if it lasts 4-5 times as long as paint I'll be happy!

i've powdercoated directly over rusty metal and it sticks. i know it won't last though(it's on my cart in my oven, and also when i powder coated the lug nuts the hub i used was rusted and raw and now looks nice and glossy).

if you're looking for other places to pick up powder from, i like colombia coatings, pendry powder coating, and i'm yet to order from rosey's powder coating.

[76C10Stepside]

Thanks for the power coating tips. More questions...

When you pre-bake a part, do you let it cool off before you apply powder?

If you're going to use primer, do you first bake the part, then prime/bake, then top coat/bake, or just prime/bake, then top coat/bake?

How important is convection when baking? I just have a regular stove. I saw a home-made convection oven a guy made from a large tube.

[Jvsapp]

Originally Posted by 76C10Stepside

Thanks for the power coating tips. More questions...

When you pre-bake a part, do you let it cool off before you apply powder?

If you're going to use primer, do you first bake the part, then prime/bake, then top coat/bake, or just prime/bake, then top coat/bake?

How important is convection when baking? I just have a regular stove. I saw a home-made convection oven a guy made from a large tube.

if you were to spray the powder on a piece of metal that was still hot it would instantly flash off to the gloss or matt effect your powder is supposed to. you wouldn't get an even flow out and it could get splotchy in some areas if you are shooting candy or metallics. it's best to let it cool to at least where you can handle it. that way if you make a mistake and get powder where it's not supposed to be(eg lettering) you can dust it off before putting it in the oven. if you are putting powder ontop another color, you will need it to be around 200 degrees for the powder to stick to the color underneath. i haven't really had a need for primer yet, so i don't use it, but i can imagine you will need to preheat a part that is primered to make it stick unless you have a really good gun like the koolcoat systems. i use a craftsman gun because the air supply is included in the gun. no need to run a compressor except to clean the gun up afterwards.

as for oven, if you look at the pics you can see i have a bike frame in mine. my oven is 4'x4'x8'. it's propane fired(even though they tell you not to use propane) and i can bake a part in less than 5 minutes. i can do a full set of wheels in 20 min as opposed to doing one wheel at a time, one side at a time in my old oven(conventional oven). as for convection it would be good because convection evenly displaces the heat around the oven, and i know i do have hotspots in my oven i'm looking for a decent fan that i can run to get the air current to evenly displace the heat. but for what it's worth with 180,000 BTU i can get the part up to 400 degrees in less than 2 minutes. for me time is $. and propane i $25 a tank. i can even do headers at 500 degrees which will be my next attempt. if i were to better insulate my oven i'm sure i can get it up to 700 degrees.

if you need more info, shoot me a PM and i'll give you some tips and what i've experienced. i've been doing it on the side for 6 years now and i've learned a lot.

[65Pickup]

Originally Posted by Jvsapp

i can even do headers at 500 degrees which will be my next attempt. if i were to better insulate my oven i'm sure i can get it up to 700 degrees.

Sorry to add to a potential high jack, but what are the powder options for headers? How does it compare to ceramic coating?

[76C10Stepside]

Yeah, FF, feel free to step in and post new photos! ;-}

Wow, didn't notice that the bike frame was in your oven. Should be able to add convection pretty easily with some 8-inch duct and a direct-drive fan with metal blade. I figure he duct just needs to be long enough to permit the inside air near the fan cool enough to not melt its windings or whatever. Oh, and put the fan at the bottom and the out-vent at the top, of course.

When you do wheels, how much of the inner rim to you coat?

One last question. After applying powder, you blow off the excess powder? Do you use compressed air (how many PSI), or ? Oh, and I assume you can reclaim any powder that falls off as long as it's still clean/pure, right? Thanks!

[Frizzle Fry]

No worries. This is good info. Thanks jvsapp. I need to build an oven...

No new pics to post right now. I've been working out if/how to adjust the trans xmember to allow for a decent sized resonator/term. box (more modifications).

Also dropped off the hood for color matching and picked up some primer
Posted via Mobile Device

[Jvsapp]

i thought i could get away with a simple post from my phone but i guess i had to whip out the laptop to reply to these

Originally Posted by 65Pickup

Sorry to add to a potential high jack, but what are the powder options for headers? How does it compare to ceramic coating?

columba coatings has a high temp powders
http://www.columbiacoatings.com/category_s/38.htm

essentially they are like a ceramic, but in a powder format instead of a liquid. they must go on and be cured at 500 degrees for one hour. most house hold ovens can't get up there unless you are using the broiler.
columbia also has a ceramic coating for exhaust
http://www.columbiacoatings.com/category_s/1051.htm

i actually have white and the chrome look. i am yet to find time to try either one out, but i did get my oven up to 500 degrees when i used some of the high temp bronze on my friends calipers for his car. i found out that my burner will ice over the tank after about 25-30 minutes so when i do my headers to get a good cure on them i'll have to use 2 tanks with a dual line setup so i can cut one tank and fire the next tank while one deices. the ceramic is supposed to handle up to 1300 degrees once fully cured, where as the powder only will handle up to 1000 degrees. if you're not running too lean or running a turbo i'm sure 1000 degrees is plenty hot. but for peace of mind i'm going with ceramic when i do my headers for my nova. i like the throw back "white" aluminum coated header look from the late 70's early 80's.

Originally Posted by 76C10Stepside

Yeah, FF, feel free to step in and post new photos! ;-}

Wow, didn't notice that the bike frame was in your oven. Should be able to add convection pretty easily with some 8-inch duct and a direct-drive fan with metal blade. I figure he duct just needs to be long enough to permit the inside air near the fan cool enough to not melt its windings or whatever. Oh, and put the fan at the bottom and the out-vent at the top, of course.

When you do wheels, how much of the inner rim to you coat?

One last question. After applying powder, you blow off the excess powder? Do you use compressed air (how many PSI), or ? Oh, and I assume you can reclaim any powder that falls off as long as it's still clean/pure, right? Thanks!

the bike is actually a low rider cruiser. it uses 26" wheels and the frame was roughly 5' long. it BARELY fit in my blast cabinet. i built my blast cabinet to handle rear ends but i am yet to blast and powder one.

the way i have my oven setup it's still a work in progress. the bottom 1.5 feet is where my rack rolls in and where the burner sits. i am planning to get some form of air mover, not really wanting to vent it much so i can keep the hot air inside. i may put a small 1" vent on the top somewhere like how most conventional ovens have. currently i have just the edges of the corrugated steel unsealed at the top as vents. it's not really that efficient, but i used a BTU converter to figure out how many BTU i needed to heat the space.
http://www.heatershop.com/btu_calculator.htm

my insulation isn't the greatest, it's more like a hot house or smoker where it's just the metal. if you were to touch it you would get burnt. i'm planning to use some DOW insulation(pink panther kind from lowes or HD) and lay it between another layer of metal when i get a chance.

for taking off powder (like the raised letters) i actually use my finger. i wipe the powder off the letters making sure they stay clean. to blow it off it takes some skill. it can be done, but i'm not really doing that much percision. i've tried using tape to pull the powder off, but i keep coming back to a steady finger and wiping the powder off.

columbia has this vacuum gun
http://www.columbiacoatings.com/category_s/924.htm

that's supposed to be able to suck off the powder. to me it looks like this blow gun i got from HF
http://www.harborfreight.com/4-piece...set-68260.html
i haven't tried to hook it up to my vacuum yet, but i'm sure it'll do the same thing.

as for reclaiming powder, if you put down some plastic sheeting prior to spraying you could reclaim what you're not using, but in my case i factor the waste into the price of the job. the trade winds here are too strong to try and it's meager what i would reclaim. i can see companies like miller welding that do ALOT of powdercoating reclaiming what they don't use. but i'm a small time guy so it's not that much to me. besides 1lb of powder is only $10-20 and i can make $160 out of that one pound.

for the overlap on the insides of the wheels it all depends on the job. i ask if they want the insides done too or not. most times i will only strip where the tire actually beads up against. maybe say 1" in and that's it. i will blow powder in that area as well, but anything that get's into the middle of the wheel(where the tire sits) is just there because i don't take it off. it's more like whatever statically clings to that area. i do the face and the backside of the wheel, unless someone specifically asks only for the face and doesn't care about the backside. it all determines what i'm charging because of the amount of powder i will be using. if they want the wheel say gloss black inside, backside and the face that will eat up a whole pound and 1/2 of powder for a 15" wheel. where as just the face maybe 1/2 lb total and faces and backside would be a full pound.

Originally Posted by Frizzle Fry

No worries. This is good info. Thanks jvsapp. I need to build an oven...

with your sheet metal expertise, i'm sure it'll be amazing.... when i was gonna build mine i was going to use metal studs and sheet metal inside and out, but when i started getting containers shipped from japan that were metal 4x4x8 i looked at it as perfect and i can expand by adding another 4x4x8 and just moving the door outwards and adding another burner.
if you plan to i'll shoot you the burner i got off amazon. 180,000 BTU for $40. a few mods to redirect the flame and you'll be ready to cook. i've almost got it down to exactly where i need it to maintain 375-380 degrees on the part constantly. if i run it full open it will get up past 550 degrees.
with better insulation, i will have to relearn the burner though.

[76C10Stepside]

Good stuff! I guess you don't need to remove any powder if you are coating the entire piece (and don't apply way too much).

Wish I had access to free corrugated metal! That stuff's getting EXPENSIVE.

Good point about not wanting to vent out all that hot air. Stove shops sell stove-top fans that use the heat from the stove to turn them. Not sure if it would move enough air.

[watahyahknow]

allways figured that since they electrify the whole thing and the powder gets drawn to the piece depending on how mush is allready on it so metal under thin paint atract more than thick

[dammitmitchell]

im not seeing any progress here...
im dissapointed frizz!

[Lippyp]

Theres a nice squareback like that that one of the parents at my kids school uses as their daily, looks to be totally stockeither and older nicely patinated resto or a well looked after survivor, its in a deep marron with black steels witth chrome hubcaps.

[Frizzle Fry]

Originally Posted by dammitmitchell

im not seeing any progress here...
im dissapointed frizz!

Originally Posted by Lippyp

Theres a nice squareback like that that one of the parents at my kids school uses as their daily, looks to be totally stockeither and older nicely patinated resto or a well looked after survivor, its in a deep marron with black steels witth chrome hubcaps.

Nice! Bet they are a pretty rare site there.

On the Minx... Just finished three 12hr days and one 19hr day at work. I did manage to get some shop time in there though.

Need to make some changes to accommodate the wave termination box:


Muffler will tuck up under the rear seat pan:


Floor pan/DS Tunnel will kick-up for the muffler inlet:




Started working the area and the panel that was removed to create the required shape:

[Frizzle Fry]

Also picked up my color matched paint and other supplies. Got some POR-20 to try out on the header too. Anyone use it?