More on EVs from a guy trying to sell them

[MikeB]

There are lots of articles with opinions pro and con about EVs, but here are some actual text message comments by a guy I know who has been selling Fords for at least 10 years now:

Me: Are you still working at the Ford place? How are things going there?

Him: Sales are OK, but the economy is still screwed up. That and the EV BS that Ford is trying to shove down our throats.

Me: Yes, I've heard that Ford is all-in on EVs. Way too soon, and a major mistake, IMO. Are the EV pickups and Mach-Es selling?

Him: They are pretty much just sitting on our lot. Other mfrs have the same problems.

[57taskforce]

Who da thunk it, shove something down the American public’s throat that isn’t wanted in the quantities/scale we are being by told and no one buys them. I genuinely hope the manufactures continue to loose there asses on this stuff big time.

[truckster]

Originally Posted by 57taskforce

Who da thunk it, shove something down the American public’s throat that isn’t wanted in the quantities/scale we are being by told and no one buys them. I genuinely hope the manufactures continue to loose there asses on this stuff big time.

Remember, the Boston Tea Party (and the nine other tea parties across the colonies) weren't about taxes - they were about the king telling Americans where they could buy their tea and from whom.

[dieseldawg142]

Originally Posted by 68bowtie

Not correct. In California we now have a law that makes it illegal to buy ICE vehicles. It will be phased in starting in 2026, zero ICE sales in 2035.

https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/cal...-for-2035.html

Originally Posted by MikeB

1. Governments forcing us to buy them. And taxpayers giving rebates to buyers!
2. Price premium over standard cars and trucks
3. Range anxiety on long distance trips -- The distance between charging stations, having to wait in line when you get there, and then hoping the charger(s) there work.
4. Rolling blackouts coming to your neighborhood soon.

On another note, while quick 0-60 times are cool, is that kind of acceleration needed for daily drivers, mom's SUV, work trucks, etc? Also, driving like that significantly affects an EV's already limited range.

But other than that...

i see chicken little yelling the sky is falling.
anybody anywhere in north america can still buy ice cars. they will never be "illegal". even CA 2035 rule still allows ice cars. and i ain't seen no gov anywhere holding a gun to my head and telling me kind of vehicle i have to buy.
i would be curious as to how many board members actually have bought a new car in the last couple yrs. guarentee the majority of vehicles bought by board members are used, so why even worry about whatever is going to happen in 10-20-30 yrs down the road if your not even buying new cars now.

as to "rebates", i'm old enough to remember rebates for switching ice cars to propane or NG, old enough to remember rebates given to homeowners to upgrade to hi efficiency furnaces or appliances, rebates are not exclusive to just ev's.
and ya, there more expensive right now as the technology grows and improves, just like when ice cars came out a 100 yrs ago, or better airplanes for travel or safer nuclear power....
never said to get rid of ice, i say there a complement to ice, for short travel there sufficent, longer travel, ice. where i live you can't go more than 10 miles and you hit a charger. 90% of all new home construction we do, home chargers are pretty much standard. we didn't get a gas station on every corner in just 20 yrs, give it some time
blackouts? naw, most power companies are upgrading or will be upgrading their infrastructure to meet demand...just like we drill more oil wells to meet demand. hydro power and nuclear can easily make up any future demands.
i suspect the animosity towards ev's is more political than practical, like i said, why would gearheads dump on something that saves more fuel for the ice vehicles we restore and drive

[truckster]

Originally Posted by dieseldawg142

i would be curious as to how many board members actually have bought a new car in the last couple yrs

I have, but not for myself and not voluntarily. My government has used my money to pay for other people's purchase of EVs without asking me if I think it's a good idea.

I'm not opposed to EVs. But if they're a good idea, they shouldn't need taxpayer money to prop them up. It's a question of central planning (socialism) versus a market economy.

[72c20customcamper]

Originally Posted by dieseldawg142

i see chicken little yelling the sky is falling.
anybody anywhere in north america can still buy ice cars. they will never be "illegal". even CA 2035 rule still allows ice cars. and i ain't seen no gov anywhere holding a gun to my head and telling me kind of vehicle i have to buy.
i would be curious as to how many board members actually have bought a new car in the last couple yrs. guarentee the majority of vehicles bought by board members are used, so why even worry about whatever is going to happen in 10-20-30 yrs down the road if your not even buying new cars now.

as to "rebates", i'm old enough to remember rebates for switching ice cars to propane or NG, old enough to remember rebates given to homeowners to upgrade to hi efficiency furnaces or appliances, rebates are not exclusive to just ev's.
and ya, there more expensive right now as the technology grows and improves, just like when ice cars came out a 100 yrs ago, or better airplanes for travel or safer nuclear power....
never said to get rid of ice, i say there a complement to ice, for short travel there sufficent, longer travel, ice. where i live you can't go more than 10 miles and you hit a charger. 90% of all new home construction we do, home chargers are pretty much standard. we didn't get a gas station on every corner in just 20 yrs, give it some time
blackouts? naw, most power companies are upgrading or will be upgrading their infrastructure to meet demand...just like we drill more oil wells to meet demand. hydro power and nuclear can easily make up any future demands.
i suspect the animosity towards ev's is more political than practical, like i said, why would gearheads dump on something that saves more fuel for the ice vehicles we restore and drive

After 2035 you will not be able to buy a new ICE vehicle in CA NY is doing the same . You will not be able to buy one out of state and bring it into the state either . So if you want a ICE your relegated to the used market . I have nothing against EVs buy one if you want to I
believe the people who did want them bought already . Been reading about high inventory of EVs at dealerships since August.

[68bowtie]

Originally Posted by 72c20customcamper

After 2035 you will not be able to buy a new ICE vehicle in CA NY is doing the same . You will not be able to buy one out of state and bring it into the state either . So if you want a ICE your relegated to the used market . I have nothing against EVs buy one if you want to I
believe the people who did want them bought already . Been reading about high inventory of EVs at dealerships since August.

CURRENT LAW states that in 2026 I think it’s like 25% of new sales in the state must be EV. I don’t know how they plan to enforce it, but I’m sure it will be imposed on dealers. I can see some potential issues for someone wanting to buy an ICE vehicle if they haven’t sold enough EV’s. But we will see.

[68bowtie]

Originally Posted by dieseldawg142

i see chicken little yelling the sky is falling.
anybody anywhere in north america can still buy ice cars. they will never be "illegal". even CA 2035 rule still allows ice cars. and i ain't seen no gov anywhere holding a gun to my head and telling me kind of vehicle i have to buy.
i would be curious as to how many board members actually have bought a new car in the last couple yrs. guarentee the majority of vehicles bought by board members are used, so why even worry about whatever is going to happen in 10-20-30 yrs down the road if your not even buying new cars now.

MikeB and I stated facts. Your response is rude and ignorant. I think you should do some more research. I work for a power utility in CA, this is a very real issue.

[Getter-Done]

So much for EV's going mainstream.

Trying to force feed something that the Country is not ready for.
Besides the fact the biggest percentage of American's Don't want them.

[LockDoc]

-
I have been seeing this video on YouTube lately but wasn't really interested in watching it. This thread prompted me to take the time to watch it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWqduwbKLA8

I think it is a well made video and provides some insight to the discussion....

A production truck that goes from 0-60 in 4 seconds?????? Wow!

LockDoc

[dieseldawg142]

wow
just don't understand the negativity of americans towards ev's. especially as gearheads, how can you not like something that goes 0-60 in 3 seconds?
not saying you have to buy or like an ev, but their not being shoved down anybody's throat, you can buy an ice car anytime, anywhere. they have their place, just as ice cars have there's.
as a owner and lover of a bbc, i wish they would sell more ev's, if enough get sold, gas loses it's value and the price comes down-simple economics.
for the majority of trips people make everyday (100 miles or less) ev's are fine, want to go further, drive your ice car. i see ev's as a good complement to ice cars, not a replacement
although ev sales are not that great in the us, they are selling very good in the rest of the world, which again, means 20 million less cars today buying gas, meaning more gas for those of us that drive 5 mpg bbc's
i'm not going to debate driving range, battery life or how much pollution is created making ev's cause ice cars are just as if not more dirty, i just don't see the reason for all the negativity, as before, don't like em, don't buy one-easy peasy.
would i buy an ev car? no, i haven't owned a car in close to 40 yrs, i'm a truck guy. but if i had enough money, i would definitely have an ev hummer parked next to the 454 crewcab in my driveway.

[68bowtie]

Originally Posted by dieseldawg142

their not being shoved down anybody's throat, you can buy an ice car anytime, anywhere.

Not correct. In California we now have a law that makes it illegal to buy ICE vehicles. It will be phased in starting in 2026, zero ICE sales in 2035.

https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/cal...-for-2035.html

[Accelo]

[QUOTE=68bowtie;9265529]Not correct. In California we now have a law that makes it illegal to buy ICE vehicles. It will be phased in starting in 2026, zero ICE sales in 2035.
Don't forget this is a car mandate, not trucks. We all love our trucks.

In 2023 there still will be several 100 million used ICE cars on the market.
There are 290.8 million cars in the U.S. as of September 2022. Used ICE cars will be around for a long time

A lot of things can change in the next12 years.
I have 5 cars, and one EV.
I drive the EV every where I go. It is the fastest and most comfortable car I own. And it has the least maintenance and lowest cost per mile.
I drive 180 miles to do consulting and it costs me $4 in electric energy , if I charge at home.
Plus it returns fuel whenever I go down hill. No other vehicle can do this, including hydrogen. What if you got fuel back when ever you used the brakes instead of turning it into heat at the brakes.

To each his own. If you don't want to drive a EV it is very likely you never will.
I will say they have no soul. However, some times I don't need a vehicle with soul, just a safe method to move around!

[MikeB]

Originally Posted by dieseldawg142

wow
just don't understand the negativity of americans towards ev's. especially as gearheads, how can you not like something that goes 0-60 in 3 seconds?

1. Governments forcing us to buy them. And taxpayers giving rebates to buyers!
2. Price premium over standard cars and trucks
3. Range anxiety on long distance trips -- The distance between charging stations, having to wait in line when you get there, and then hoping the charger(s) there work.
4. Rolling blackouts coming to your neighborhood soon.

On another note, while quick 0-60 times are cool, is that kind of acceleration needed for daily drivers, mom's SUV, work trucks, etc? Also, driving like that significantly affects an EV's already limited range.

But other than that...

[57taskforce]

Originally Posted by dieseldawg142

wow
just don't understand the negativity of americans towards ev's. especially as gearheads, how can you not like something that goes 0-60 in 3 seconds?
not saying you have to buy or like an ev, but their not being shoved down anybody's throat, you can buy an ice car anytime, anywhere. they have their place, just as ice cars have there's.
as a owner and lover of a bbc, i wish they would sell more ev's, if enough get sold, gas loses it's value and the price comes down-simple economics.
for the majority of trips people make everyday (100 miles or less) ev's are fine, want to go further, drive your ice car. i see ev's as a good complement to ice cars, not a replacement
although ev sales are not that great in the us, they are selling very good in the rest of the world, which again, means 20 million less cars today buying gas, meaning more gas for those of us that drive 5 mpg bbc's
i'm not going to debate driving range, battery life or how much pollution is created making ev's cause ice cars are just as if not more dirty, i just don't see the reason for all the negativity, as before, don't like em, don't buy one-easy peasy.
would i buy an ev car? no, i haven't owned a car in close to 40 yrs, i'm a truck guy. but if i had enough money, i would definitely have an ev hummer parked next to the 454 crewcab in my driveway.

I don’t care if it goes 0-60 in a nano second… I’m a life long gear head and EV’s lack overall style and any real cool factor that appeals to me. They are not practical or functional for the area of the USA I live in. Just to get to the nearest large scale airport for example is a 400 mile round trip, with basically no human civilization between point A and B.

You see my Canadian friend, the reason for the distaste of EV’s for the majority of us who don’t want them here in the US starts from our founding, we have a clear history of not liking it when our govt overreaches. This has happened with EV’s on a large scale. If you chose to ignore that I’m happy for you. Apparently there’s still enough red blooded Americans here to let the market decide… for now any way. I do certainly agree they have there place, but not as the ONLY future option we are presented with, which is very much the current plan if you pay attention. Wind and solar ain’t generating the extra power needed for all the charging and the US has been downsizing coal fire plants left and right over the last several years, one of which is less than 5 miles from my house actually. I’ll keep my big ass choppy cam, and have a side of classic American style (or on the case of my 2010 Camaro SS, American and Canadian style), anyone else who wants an EV can gladly have my share of the supply.

[LT7A]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

Our cheap rates start at 7pm. When the clock chimes either my wife or I will be reminded to go plug the car in (aka "Pavlov's EV drivers").

My wife is so frugal she will turn lights off with me sitting in the room. I plugged the car in at 6:54 one day and you would think she was never going to recover financially from that.

K

Thanks Keith, that cracked me up. I do respect the frugality, but those 6 minutes will probably not do you in

57TF, good summary!

DieselDawg, thanks for the challenges and the points you made, even if not everybody appreciates how you made them. Mostly stated elsewhere, but here's my own summary to explain why it's such a negative reaction. First, we don't like being told what to do. Second, we don't like the government spending our money to push an agenda. Third, it feels like it is threatening our hobby and a major source of enjoyment. I know I have some concern that gas will not become cheaper and that the government will erode our infrastructure for supplying it in order to further push the agenda. However, the oil lobby is huge. What works in this country is to let people decide for themselves. EVs can make a strong case for their own value, the government doesn't need to do it for them. Many people are going to decide that an EV fits their needs. The strongest change will happen when people buy their second EV and their first one hits the used car market. That will allow people in a different income bracket to experience whatever value the EV can provide for them - no need to try to push it along.

[1970 CST Short Wide]

The new EV Technology is cool, But Don’t take away my Hot Rod

[Sheepdip]

Green Energy no matter what form will never stand alone.

[LS short box]

I don't mind EV's if that's work for you. I just don't want big brother telling what I can and can't buy.
Where are all the charging stations that have been I think 7 billion dollars allocated?
Do hotels along the interstate have charging stations for all their guests?
In CA this summer the state government said don't plug in your EV's because the burden on the grid is too high.
For my sister in MPLS where most of her trips are short maybe an EV is right for her.
Most home owners don't have a 220V outlet except maybe for an electric dryer and it's only single phase. The best EV chargers as I understand are 3 phase. Who has a three phase outlet in their house?
And today where is all this electricity coming from? Currant bushes? Not solar and wind.
I think EV hot rods are cool. I would never spend 110K to own one.

[dieseldawg142]

Originally Posted by LS short box

Most home owners don't have a 220V outlet except maybe for an electric dryer and it's only single phase. The best EV chargers as I understand are 3 phase. Who has a three phase outlet in their house?
And today where is all this electricity coming from? Currant bushes? Not solar and wind.
I think EV hot rods are cool. I would never spend 110K to own one.

almost all home chargers i see being installed are 2 phase/240 volt, which pretty much every house has....unless your living in a tent.
not the fastest, but for overnight there sufficent. and if you don't have it, any electrican can wire one in in just a hr or two
and ya, i wish the ev hummer wasn't over a hundred grand...

[MikeB]

Originally Posted by dieseldawg142

almost all home chargers i see being installed are 2 phase/240 volt, which pretty much every house has....unless your living in a tent.

"2-phase" is an older term that is no longer used. Homes use single phase electricity. Level II home chargers are 220-240 volt, typically 30 or 40 amps, but can be up to 80 amps if your service panel can handle the extra load and the circuit uses 4-gauge wire.

On the other hand, Superchargers like Tesla has on the highways are 480 volt 3-phase and around 100 amps or more, best I can tell. But I think they currently work only with Teslas.

However, home charging is not the main problem (except for contributing to brown-outs). The problem is what's available out on the highways. We love the southwest, and do a fair amount a traveling from Texas to New Mexico, Arizona, and Colorado. Have to say it's rare to see an EV out on the highways away from the medium to large towns. That's probably different on the coasts, especially the west coast.

[57taskforce]

Originally Posted by MikeB

"2-phase" is an older term that is no longer used. Homes use single phase electricity. Level II home chargers are 220-240 volt, typically 30 or 40 amps, but can be up to 80 amps if your service panel can handle the extra load and the circuit uses 4-gauge wire.

On the other hand, Superchargers like Tesla has on the highways are 480 volt 3-phase and around 100 amps or more, best I can tell. But I think they currently work only with Teslas.

However, home charging is not the main problem (except for contributing to brown-outs). The problem is what's available out on the highways. We love the southwest, and do a fair amount a traveling from Texas to New Mexico, Arizona, and Colorado. Have to say it's rare to see an EV out on the highways away from the medium to large towns. That's probably different on the coasts, especially the west coast.

Exactly! For those of you who regularly travel or live in the western US you know there’s very little EVs ever on the roads out side of civilization. Even in the small town I live in it’s pretty rare to see one, not saying there aren’t any, but definitely not many.

[Boog]

Let me ask this. Has the prez replaced HIS mid 60's Vette convertible with an EV yet?

[LS short box]

Was it this week or last week 3900 dealerships signed onto a letter sent to Biden that EV's are not selling? With an interview with a dealership owner said he has 1 years worth of EV's in stock and they just aren't selling.

[Richard]

My brother in law has two Tesla's. Has recently said home charging cost is equivalent to gas prices here. I do not see any need for us to get an ev. Only has limitations for our use.