Eaton HO72/HO52 vs. 14 Bolt FF

[whitedog76]

That was a pretty good build thread. Seemed like he went overkill on everything though and got burnt out.

[swamp rat]

I PM'ed him about some of his stuff a while back and i think he was selling all the power train stuff locally..

[RangerCB29]

yep. very easy to get burned out. you definitely have to pace urself when ur in the middle of a frame up nuts and bolts kind of job

[RangerCB29]

Whitedog-so the bearings you have listed will match up if I keep my eaton hubs but use 14bolt axles? I was also wondering if a 14bolt spool would work in one? had a spool in a street car once and it never bothered me a bit. even in rain with drag radials. don't drive like an idiot and you stay between the lines just fine.

[whitedog76]

Yes, the bearings I listed will work for the Eaton hubs on 14 B full floaters. I went through the Timken catalog to figure it out.

It won't work the other way though. 14 B hubs won't fit the Eaton axle without machine work. The inner bearings/races are compatible, but the outer would need to be machined to take the Eaton bearing.

When it comes to brakes, you will have to get creative. The Eaton hubs, at least the ones I have, don't have as much offset as the 14 B dually hubs.

I've never ran a spool. Can't telly you anything about it.

[RangerCB29]

cool thanks. There are a couple of places that I have read 14bolt disk brake kits will work on an Eaton.

[whitedog76]

I think the van disc setup is different from the trucks. The van setup I have came off of a semi float D60. The flange is different than the 14 B. It actually looks like the same flange that the Ford Rearends use. Makes sense, since Ford is still using D60's in 1/2 and 3/4 ton trucks.

I need to get to a machine shop and have one cut, so I can weld it on.

[jpyle]

Are the brakes shoes you show 13"x 2 1/2" thank you

[71Dually]

Greetings Jeremy,

Thank you for posting the brake swap information. It helped me to come up with a solution for my out of round Eaton drums.

I did the brake swap in a pic-a-part yard and purchased the complete rear end with the 14BFF brakes.

Heres a pic of that Eaton rear end:



I put the larger 13" X 3-1/2" brakes from a 1982 JB8 optioned P30 Step Van. They fit perfectly.

One subject that I have found that has not been touched on here is the Eaton's hub bearing lubrication system. The Eaton uses gear oil to lubricate the hub bearings. I do not know anything about the 14BFF hub bearing lubrication system but it could very well be the same as the Eaton using gear oil from the housing to lube the hub bearings. However, the Eaton axles did use oil slingers to help prevent oil contamination of the brake linings where the 14BFF I pulled the rear brakes from did not. The Eaton drums have two holes to accommodate this in their design and assist in extracting any oil seepage from inside the drums.

A pic of the Eaton drum with the oil slinger holes:


The 14BFF drums do not have these holes.

A pic of the 14BFF JB8 option drums without the holes:


The oil slinger system is a two piece system with a slinger on the axle housing spindle and a slinger on the inner drum flange mating surface.

While it is necessary to remove the slinger off the housing spindle to install the backing plate the pictures you have shown do not have this slinger reinstalled.

Here is a picture with the slinger reinstalled after the 14BFF backing plate has been installed:



A poor pic of the slinger mounted inside the drum (Eaton drum left, 14BFF JB8 drum right) This pic was actually taken to show a comparison of the brake contact surface area between the drums:



A better pic of the slinger that goes on the inside of the drum:



Since this oil slinger design is in the original engineering of the Eaton axle would it not be important or beneficial to retain this design with the 14BFF brake conversion? What do you think?

It would be my conclusion that it would be best to retain this design and drill the holes in the 14BFF drums.

I would accommodate that by mating the drums together with a few lug studs and with a transfer punch transfer the location of the holes to the 14BFF drums. I would then drill 1/8" pilot holes (to retain accuracy and drum balance) and then drill the pilot holes to proper size.

A pic of the drums mated together:



The proper location of the brake drums oil slinger holes:



A transfer punch is used for accuracy to attain the proper hole center locations:


I found wheel fitment and clearance not to be a problem on my 16" wheel dually application. The 16" wheels and wheel weights had plenty of clearance with the 14BFF drums.

A few pics of the wheel to drum clearance:

Lots of space to spare for wheel weights:


Hard to tell from this shot but the clearance is there:


Looking straight down thru the drum wheel clearance you can see the hand hold holes on the opposite side of the budd wheel:


Again Jeremy thanks for the write up. It did help a lot with my conversion.

Hope the info I have posted helps to enhance your presentation.

[jbclassix]

71Daully, Those pictures are awesome! Thank you so much for posting them!

As for the oil slingers, you are correct. They are added protection and a good safety measure.

Oil contaminated drums or shoes should never be re-used. So directing the oil out of the drums is very smart.

The 14 bolt does use gear oil to lube the bearings, there is no inner-axle seal.

The Eaton and the 14 bolt also share the same hub seal as well.

Again, thank you very much for your contribution to this thread. I hope others find your info very useful.

[jcgrobbe]

So from what I've been able to gather, these came with 11, 12, and 13" drum brakes on them, how do I go about identifying the size parts I need to order? Do I measure the ID of the drum, or do I measure the backing plates?

[Former member Yoder213]

Well my n00bness got the best of me, I purchased DIY4x4's 14bff disc brake swap after being told I had the 14bff, then the next shop told me I had the GM 10bolt. Now after looking around some more I have the Eaton.

Wouldn't it just be lucky if the 14bff disc swap worked for my Eaton? I've got the Detroit lock and just put discs on my front d445cf (disc parts from the 14bff's matching d445cf) and really didn't want to play around with matching gear ratio's.

thanks for the info everyone, I absolutely love this site

[swamp rat]

Originally Posted by Yoder213

Well my n00bness got the best of me, I purchased DIY4x4's 14bff disc brake swap after being told I had the 14bff, then the next shop told me I had the GM 10bolt. Now after looking around some more I have the Eaton.

Wouldn't it just be lucky if the 14bff disc swap worked for my Eaton? I've got the Detroit lock and just put discs on my front d445cf (disc parts from the 14bff's matching d445cf) and really didn't want to play around with matching gear ratio's.

thanks for the info everyone, I absolutely love this site

If memory serves, most of the brackets for a 14 bolt will bolt right up to the Eaton, then all you need are stock 72 front rotors.

[Former member Yoder213]

This is just a really lucky mishap then, I have the rotors, calipers, and m/c ready to install. think I'll need new lines though. drop in the bucket.

[Captainfab]

Yes I believe the 14 bolt caliper brackets should bolt up to the Eaton HO52/72. However you might want to confirm that with Kert at DIY4x, in case there might be something different about his brackets that prohibit that.

[jbclassix]

Originally Posted by Yoder213

This is just a really lucky mishap then, I have the rotors, calipers, and m/c ready to install. think I'll need new lines though. drop in the bucket.

Can you please post pictures when you are done. Seems we get this question a lot. Yes, The 14 bolt disc swap will fit.

[60sIron]

Great post! The drums on my Eaton have been turned to the max. And they're small. I'd love to impove the brakes. It looks that by swaping brakes with a 14 will move the wheels out about an inch on each side. Anyone know if changing to discs will increase the track? I what to keep the wheels where they are.

[jbclassix]

Originally Posted by 60sIron

Great post! The drums on my Eaton have been turned to the max. And they're small. I'd love to impove the brakes. It looks that by swaping brakes with a 14 will move the wheels out about an inch on each side. Anyone know if changing to discs will increase the track? I what to keep the wheels where they are.

Your brakes, either drum or disc will not affect your wheel mount surface (WMS) on the eaton. Some later 14 bolt full float (14Bff) axles do have slide on drums, but the swap I covered does not include those.

[Jvanloon]

Have some questions about the ho52 locker. I'd like a locker for my 72 K20, and I don't feel like swapping and machining axle shafts to use a 14bff Detroit. My only option then is the factory locker? What type of locker is it? Cable selectable? And how strong/reliable are they?

[truckeez]

And has anyone seen any of the unwanted 8 lug dually ho72 rears anywhere out there?? like close to N texas

[Captainfab]

The original lockers that were in the HO52/72 were Detroit Lockers. They are just about indestructible but some people don't like the noise they make and the wiggling when they lock and unlock when turning.

Originally Posted by Jvanloon

Have some questions about the ho52 locker. I'd like a locker for my 72 K20, and I don't feel like swapping and machining axle shafts to use a 14bff Detroit. My only option then is the factory locker? What type of locker is it? Cable selectable? And how strong/reliable are they?

[jbclassix]

Originally Posted by Jvanloon

Have some questions about the ho52 locker. I'd like a locker for my 72 K20, and I don't feel like swapping and machining axle shafts to use a 14bff Detroit. My only option then is the factory locker? What type of locker is it? Cable selectable? And how strong/reliable are they?

If you have a 72 axle then the 14 bolt No-Spin and axle shafts will swap right in without modifications. You may get lucky and find a No-Spin for the Eaton as well. The factory locker is a Detroit No-Spin (Detroit Locker) and the 14 bolt locker that fits the Eaton is the Detroit No-Spin (Detroit Locker). They are automatic .

[Jvanloon]

I'm still a little unclear. Not a fan of Detroit lockers, so what would it take to use a ARB 14bff locker? That's when I need to switch to the 14bff axle shafts and turn .250 off the splined end? Or is it only the 14bff Detroit that works for some reason?

[chewiebarker]

Sorry for the ignorance, and for reviving an old thread, but if people use the heavy duty rear ends like Eaton HO52 with 4.56 gears for hot rods or drag racers, and they use transmissions like TH350s, why the heck is my 71 K20 Suburban so slow? Is it just that the 350 engine can't spin the gears fast enough? Is it just the weight? If I put a 500hp engine in it, will it then 'go fast' with little other modification? (Not that I would. I am just trying to learn how it all works together.) Thanks for any insight! - Marc

[PortalAxls]

Possibly a combination of weight and differential design? I know the ford 9" eats HP due to the pinion offset. Maybe the Eaton is the same? Also bigger gears and axleshfts and tires to spin.

If I am wrong in any of this I will be sure to edit my post.