Frame swap - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

Fat Mike · 11-23-2009, 08:45 PM

Looking for advise on a frame swap for a 59 chevy apache. I read all the threads and am confused on which way to go? I would like to go the mustang 2 frontend but don't have alot of extra money. Luckily my friend has fabricated this front end thou so maybe I can find a pinto and use the rest of the suspension from that? The other idea is that I keep seeing that everyone is using the s-10 for this frame swap with out alot of fabrications. I have a s-10 frame that I am trying to decide if I want for my 59 or 47 chevy truck. The main reason for the swap is because the stock frame that I had was butchered. I sent it to a friend's friend that had supposedly been doing this for some twenty years and he grafted (HA-HA) a 76- camaro frontend to it. It had gaps between the welds and when i asked him if this was normal, knowing it wasn't, he said yeah. I stood on it and could hear it cracking. Sure I am 300 lbs but come on. Yeah this is my first build but i can't get a break. I paid $800 and didn't get anything back. So then I started looking on craiglist for parts and found a guy that said he had worked for fatman fabrications. Finally, abreak I was looking for but he cut the subframe of the other frame rewelded it to a frame that he had and that where the trouble started. I wanted a c-notch like porterbuilt does and a camaro frontend. The frontend he cut the cross member out leaving about 1" on both side of the a-arm mounts because he was trying to shorten the subframe to the frame instead the other way around. then he cut the back end off so he could c-notch. he called me and said come get your stuff I am getting a divorce. I raced to go get my stuff but I don't know what for. Please be patient with me. Looking for frineds and advise. I will try to get some picture posted soon. THANKs:

50adrod · 11-23-2009, 09:19 PM

wow hope the rocky start has a smooth ending. since you do not have a good original frame the S10 might be a good choice

Thadious · 11-23-2009, 09:56 PM

Wow... sounds like you are dealing with more bandaids than it's worth. Not that an S10 is a drop in replacement, but it is a good solid place to start and build up from there. No "grafting" and patchwork required.... hence the reason I went with it... simple and upwards.

Whichever way you decide to proceed... my advice would be to see if you can source out some of the guy's handiwork prior to commissioning him to do yours. There's alot of butchers out there that think they can weld.... and at 80 mph, it's not the best time to find out that he can't!

Cheers and good luck,
Ted.

jjjmm56 · 11-23-2009, 10:51 PM

The s-10 frame I think is too narrow + you will still need to lenghten or shorten depending on the cab size. If you can find a stock frame and a 70 on up camaro sub this is still the best and fastest way. We have helped many others on this site with this same problem. If needed we can give you pics and measurments when you reach that point. I did the swap years ago and just step notched my frame for bags. If you can please post some pics of your frame, maybe it can be saved.

50adrod · 11-23-2009, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thadious

Whichever way you decide to proceed... my advice would be to see if you can source out some of the guy's handiwork prior to commissioning him to do yours. There's alot of butchers out there that think they can weld.... and at 80 mph, it's not the best time to find out that he can't!

Cheers and good luck,
Ted.

agreed, I can weld fairly well but when it comes to suspension I just tack it in place and have a professional finish welding it solid. some things you can't be to safe about.

izonme13 · 11-23-2009, 11:30 PM

Agreed I had a reputable fabricator do my clip. he had tons of pics of cars and trucks he did work on. Double check their work and ask for references, then spend the money how ever you decide to go.

Fat Mike · 11-24-2009, 02:26 PM

Can you use the camaro a-arms on the s-10 frame thou. I read somewhere that you can do this and it will make a little wider wheel base. I would really to try to run 22 helo's all away around.

Dan Bowles · 11-24-2009, 06:44 PM

I heard Camaro spindles on an S10...but don't have all the details. Anyone try it??

Thadious · 11-24-2009, 08:05 PM

I've heard of it... it's normally called a "tall spindle swap" but I've never actually found a good reliable write up on it.

I too would like to lengthen my A and Control arms by about 2" per side... if anyone has any good info on this I'd love to hear it... otherwise it's a jig I'm gonna be making to do a tubular setup...

Cheers,
Ted.

mr48chev · 11-24-2009, 09:27 PM

It seems that there are a lot of hacks out there right now claiming that they can do chassis work. Not the first horror story I have seen lately by a long shot. One of my running buds has done a bunch of tri 5 and up Truck subframe jobs with that style clip and they turn out pretty well. Several have been on the road 20 years or longer.
It isn't all that hard to do a clean job of it and have a low but safe truck.

As a couple of the guys have said the big hickup with the S-10 frames is that the tread width is really narrow. It's even several inches narrow for the AD trucks but pretty close for the 41/46 models. Still there is a lot of fabricating to get everything to fit right.
The tubular A arms would probably be the hot lick but you would still have to figure out the tie rods although that shouldn't be all that difficult. Probably longer sleeves with jam nuts.
Welder series sells MII crossmember kits in various tread widths that will use the Factory MII style pieces. The basic kit isn't that expensive but you have to do quite a bit of welding and fitting.
I'm going to pick up one of their kits for my 48 after the first of the year when I get holiday expenses out of the way and will know more about how it works out then.
It doesn't help now but I would never have anyone work on my car unless I saw several examples of his work and talked to a few customers. That is chassis, paint Upholstery or even exhaust.

burntove · 11-25-2009, 08:20 PM

I'm working on a '59 short step side that had a bad frame, but a decent body. I 'm using a 1976 short bed frame that I got for free.I notched the front of the frame about an inch past the steering gear box,and ended up taking 4 1/4" out of the middle. The tracking is a little wide but the tire's still sit inside the wheel wells.

11-23-2009, 08:45 PM	#1
Fat Mike Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 540	Frame swap Looking for advise on a frame swap for a 59 chevy apache. I read all the threads and am confused on which way to go? I would like to go the mustang 2 frontend but don't have alot of extra money. Luckily my friend has fabricated this front end thou so maybe I can find a pinto and use the rest of the suspension from that? The other idea is that I keep seeing that everyone is using the s-10 for this frame swap with out alot of fabrications. I have a s-10 frame that I am trying to decide if I want for my 59 or 47 chevy truck. The main reason for the swap is because the stock frame that I had was butchered. I sent it to a friend's friend that had supposedly been doing this for some twenty years and he grafted (HA-HA) a 76- camaro frontend to it. It had gaps between the welds and when i asked him if this was normal, knowing it wasn't, he said yeah. I stood on it and could hear it cracking. Sure I am 300 lbs but come on. Yeah this is my first build but i can't get a break. I paid $800 and didn't get anything back. So then I started looking on craiglist for parts and found a guy that said he had worked for fatman fabrications. Finally, abreak I was looking for but he cut the subframe of the other frame rewelded it to a frame that he had and that where the trouble started. I wanted a c-notch like porterbuilt does and a camaro frontend. The frontend he cut the cross member out leaving about 1" on both side of the a-arm mounts because he was trying to shorten the subframe to the frame instead the other way around. then he cut the back end off so he could c-notch. he called me and said come get your stuff I am getting a divorce. I raced to go get my stuff but I don't know what for. Please be patient with me. Looking for frineds and advise. I will try to get some picture posted soon. THANKs:

11-23-2009, 09:19 PM	#2
50adrod Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Louisiana Posts: 493	Re: Frame swap wow hope the rocky start has a smooth ending. since you do not have a good original frame the S10 might be a good choice __________________ 1971 Corvette convertible 454@ 525 hp 1936 Chevy Truck street rod 1952 Chevy truck hot rod build http://www.killbillet.com/showthread...2-Chevy-Cut-up 1964 F 100 custom street rod http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/12...mark-viii.html 1950 custom Chevy Truck

11-23-2009, 09:56 PM	#3
Thadious Registered User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Creston, BC Canada Posts: 368	Re: Frame swap Wow... sounds like you are dealing with more bandaids than it's worth. Not that an S10 is a drop in replacement, but it is a good solid place to start and build up from there. No "grafting" and patchwork required.... hence the reason I went with it... simple and upwards. Whichever way you decide to proceed... my advice would be to see if you can source out some of the guy's handiwork prior to commissioning him to do yours. There's alot of butchers out there that think they can weld.... and at 80 mph, it's not the best time to find out that he can't! Cheers and good luck, Ted. __________________ '51 Chevy Build - In the design stages Aut viam inveniam aut faciam - I will either find a way or make one. If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you... My new build - https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/...70#post8958970

11-23-2009, 10:51 PM	#4
jjjmm56 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: kissimmee Florida Posts: 494	Re: Frame swap The s-10 frame I think is too narrow + you will still need to lenghten or shorten depending on the cab size. If you can find a stock frame and a 70 on up camaro sub this is still the best and fastest way. We have helped many others on this site with this same problem. If needed we can give you pics and measurments when you reach that point. I did the swap years ago and just step notched my frame for bags. If you can please post some pics of your frame, maybe it can be saved.

11-23-2009, 11:30 PM	#6
izonme13 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: medford, OR Posts: 80	Re: Frame swap Agreed I had a reputable fabricator do my clip. he had tons of pics of cars and trucks he did work on. Double check their work and ask for references, then spend the money how ever you decide to go. Last edited by izonme13; 11-23-2009 at 11:39 PM. Reason: pic not working

11-24-2009, 02:26 PM	#7
Fat Mike Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 540	Re: Frame swap Can you use the camaro a-arms on the s-10 frame thou. I read somewhere that you can do this and it will make a little wider wheel base. I would really to try to run 22 helo's all away around.

11-24-2009, 06:44 PM	#8
Dan Bowles AD Addict Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Blissfield, MI Posts: 822	Re: Frame swap I heard Camaro spindles on an S10...but don't have all the details. Anyone try it??

11-24-2009, 08:05 PM	#9
Thadious Registered User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Creston, BC Canada Posts: 368	Re: Frame swap I've heard of it... it's normally called a "tall spindle swap" but I've never actually found a good reliable write up on it. I too would like to lengthen my A and Control arms by about 2" per side... if anyone has any good info on this I'd love to hear it... otherwise it's a jig I'm gonna be making to do a tubular setup... Cheers, Ted. __________________ '51 Chevy Build - In the design stages Aut viam inveniam aut faciam - I will either find a way or make one. If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you... My new build - https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/...70#post8958970

11-24-2009, 09:27 PM	#10
mr48chev Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Toppenish, WA Posts: 15,387	Re: Frame swap It seems that there are a lot of hacks out there right now claiming that they can do chassis work. Not the first horror story I have seen lately by a long shot. One of my running buds has done a bunch of tri 5 and up Truck subframe jobs with that style clip and they turn out pretty well. Several have been on the road 20 years or longer. It isn't all that hard to do a clean job of it and have a low but safe truck. As a couple of the guys have said the big hickup with the S-10 frames is that the tread width is really narrow. It's even several inches narrow for the AD trucks but pretty close for the 41/46 models. Still there is a lot of fabricating to get everything to fit right. The tubular A arms would probably be the hot lick but you would still have to figure out the tie rods although that shouldn't be all that difficult. Probably longer sleeves with jam nuts. Welder series sells MII crossmember kits in various tread widths that will use the Factory MII style pieces. The basic kit isn't that expensive but you have to do quite a bit of welding and fitting. I'm going to pick up one of their kits for my 48 after the first of the year when I get holiday expenses out of the way and will know more about how it works out then. It doesn't help now but I would never have anyone work on my car unless I saw several examples of his work and talked to a few customers. That is chassis, paint Upholstery or even exhaust.

11-25-2009, 08:20 PM	#11
burntove '59 pache Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: lordsburg,nm Posts: 31	Re: Frame swap I'm working on a '59 short step side that had a bad frame, but a decent body. I 'm using a 1976 short bed frame that I got for free.I notched the front of the frame about an inch past the steering gear box,and ended up taking 4 1/4" out of the middle. The tracking is a little wide but the tire's still sit inside the wheel wells. Attached Images



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