Power steering pump bracket id and questions

[Rust-O-Matic]

Can anybody help me identify the Frankenstein'd power steering pump setup in my 66? The truck has the factory gear box and ram style power assist. The engine is a late 70s 305 out of who knows what. The pump appears to be late 70s style as well. The bracket currently on it doesn't appear to be correct for this application because the slotted mounting hole (on the bracket attached to the front of the pump) is slotted in the wrong direction and doesn't allow for adjustment.

I've attached some lo-fi pics. Sorry about the craptastic quality. The first one is of my filthy engine before I started painting everything. It kinda shows how the pump was mounted. The next two show the front and back of the pump once it was removed. The next shows the repainted rear bracket mounted to the engine. I also included one more pic I swiped off of here, showing a proper 78 c10 bracket setup.

After searching quite a bit one here and Google, none of the 70s style brackets I've seen look quite like mine. The rear bracket is different, and the front one has different mounting holes (the slotted one is on the opposite side, and is slotted vertically rather than horizontally like mine).

So, my questions are:
Does anybody know what I have?
Should I swap the front bracket for one that is slotted the other direction so it's adjustable?
Is this pump even suitable for use with the old ram setup?
Are all late 70s pumps basically the same? (I'm kinda concerned my hoses won't fit the replacement pump)
Oh, and the pulley seems huge, about 6 1/2" diameter. Does this matter, or should I just roll with it?

[Captainfab]

1) I don't remember what year your pump and bracket is from. Your water pump will need a threaded boss for the adjustment bolt.

2) The bracket on the pump is fine. You just need the slotted bracket that bolts between the corner of the head and the exhaust manifold.

3) A power steering pump is a power steering pump. It will be fine with your power assist steering as long as it has a SAE pressure fitting.

4) The power steering pumps are basically interchangeable. The main difference is that in about 1980-81 the fitting style changed from SAE to Metric with an O-ring.

5) The pulley diameter should be fine.

The painted up brackets in your 4th pic are a AC compressor bracket and a lower alternator bracket for a '69+ car or '73+ truck (long water pump). It is shown in your 1st pic, in it's correct location.

[Rust-O-Matic]

Thanks for your time and knowledge CaptainFab! For the record, the painted up brackets in the 4th pic are bolted in the same place they were in the first pic. The actual alternator bracket is also bolted to the passenger side where it belongs. Overall pic attached. The previous owner had the steering pump bolted to the ac/alternator bracket on the driver side, and I should have sorted this stuff out before I painted them.

So it sounds like I need to be looking for the stock brackets for a late 70s pickup, and a new pump that fits them. Do you know if that stock corner (behind the ps pump) bracket will work with headers? It looks like it bolts to the manifold and would require at least a spacer and longer bolt.

[Captainfab]

The AC compressor bracket does bolt up there, but I don't see any part of it that is needed for the PS pump mounting and adjustment. The lower boss on the water pump on the drivers side. Is it threaded or does it have a smooth bore?

[Rust-O-Matic]

Nope, no threaded boss on the water pump, just a smooth hole.

And you're right, there definitely isn't provisions for pump adjustment with that ac bracket setup. It looks like 2 of the ac bracket's bolt holes just happened to line up with the mounting holes in the front pump bracket, so the previous owner bolted the two together with a belt around it that was just the right length.

So if I ditch the incorrect ac pump bracket I currently have, and find a late 70s pump front and rear bracket, will they work with my non threaded water pump? And will that rear bracket that bolts to the exhaust manifold work with headers? If not, do you have any idea what I should be looking for?

[Captainfab]

With the smooth bore in the water pump, you will need a completely different PS pump bracket set. I will have to do some research to determine a year to tell you to look for. The pic you posted above that is a '78 PS pump, will require a water pump with a threaded bore. The small bracket that bolts to the head and exhaust manifold will need a tube over the one bolt if you have headers.

[Rust-O-Matic]

Ok, thanks again for helping me sort this out. I really appreciate it, and can't wait to get this beauty on the road.

Just to further my confusion here, the water pump is a brand new one from oreillys, that was bought specifically for a "1978 C10 w/ 305", yet does not have the threaded hole. Just 4 smooth holes to attach the pump to the block, and one smooth extra hole on the lower, driver side. Was there different variations in the same year?

I'm starting to see why the PO just slapped together whatever they had laying around haha.

[Rust-O-Matic]

I was just staring at the pic of the '78 setup again after my last reply, and realized it looks like the PS bracket is bolted to the hole in the front of the head, above and to the right of the water pump mounting bolt. Is there another one down lower that I can't see that bolts to a threaded boss on the water pump? It kinda looks like there can't be, because the bracket wouldn't be able to pivot with more than the one visible bolt attaching it.

[Captainfab]

In that pic of the '78 power steering, the pump pivots on that bolt to the head. The bracket has 2 slots for adjustment ob 2 bolts. Those 2 bolts are in the water pump and that bracket on the corner of the head and exhaust manifold.

I took a couple pics today of the PS pump brackets that you need for use with the smooth bore boss on the water pump. Notice the nut fixed to the back of the one bracket. There is a bolt that passes thru the front of the bracket, thru the boss on the water pump and threads into the nut on the back side. To the best of my knowledge this bracket assembly is original to a '76 K20. I do not have a pic of the other bracket that would bolt to the corner of the head and exhaust manifold, but I believe it will be very similar or the same as the one in your '78 pic.

[andyh1956]

It seems I remember this type of P/S bracket bolts to another bracket that bent around & went to the left motor mount insulator on the block. I have a big box of P/S & alt brackets up in the barn. This afternoon I will see if I can find a set that works with a smooth hole water pump.

[Rust-O-Matic]

Thanks AndyH. If you have any you would sell, I would likely be interested.

And Captain I think you nailed it. I looked at the pump on a '76 GMC K25 (400) yesterday, and ran over to my dad's to take some pics of the pump on his '85 Custom Deluxe (305) as well.

The '76 had the same 3 piece affair as the K20 brackets in your pic. Though I am pretty sure my engine was a 77-79 when I looked up the numbers, these '76 style brackets appear to be the ones I need.

The '85 had the same front bracket as the one currently attached to the front of my PS pump, and as discussed, one slotted hole on it was bolted to the threaded boss on the water pump. On my engine there was no threads on the water pump, so the PO had bolted that hole in the bracket to one of the holes on the front of the head. The other side of the front bracket was then bolted to the old rear ac bracket.

So now that all that is out of the way, it appears that I am after a set of the 3 '76 style brackets, and a pump with a port that will accept my current pressure hose fitting. I need to pull the line off and try to determine if it's sae or metric. Are the mounting holes in the same locations on both eras of pumps? For example, will a metric '85 pump attach to a '76 style set of brackets if need be? I presume so, with a little persuasion if nothing else.

[andyh1956]

Is your pump bad? If not no need to change the pump. Just bust the pulley off & change the brackets.

[Rust-O-Matic]

My pump isn't completely shot yet, but I think it's probably close. It makes quite a bit of noise intermittently, and needs a coat of paint while I'm cleaning up everything else. I figured I'd just replace it while I've got it off. A new one is cheap enough that there's no sense in spending time and effort prettying up a pump that is on its last leg.

[notsolo]

I pulled the main bracket and pump off a 74, looks like the large photo in your 1st post. If that is close to what your looking for pm me with your email address I will send you some photo's. I did not get the manifold piece of the bracket, but I may go back and get some other parts later this month.....Ed

[Rust-O-Matic]

Thanks for the offer Notsolo, but I think we've determined that style won't work because my water pump doesn't have the threads required to mount it. Its interesting that the 74 had the "newer" style brackets.

I just went out and took the line off of the current pump, and it looks like a standard inverted flare. The hose is female and the pump is male though, as compared to Captain's pic that shows the opposite.

[Rust-O-Matic]

Looks like I spoke too soon, again. I went ahead and unscrewed the male flare fitting on the pump and realized it looks like an adapter with the o-ring style fitting on the pump side. Based on Captain's description of the fitting styles, I presume this pump is an '80+ with the metric port.

[andyh1956]

No the metric fitting is female & the o-ring is on the hose fitting. Looks to me like all you need is the correct water pump & the head to pump bracket to make your pump work, is that correct?

[Rust-O-Matic]

Oh ok, thanks. Well hell, I don't know what the pump is for then. As I'm sitting here looking at it, the male piece that the hose attaches to probably isn't even a flare, but more like an AN fitting or something like that. No idea. I guess I'll just take it to the parts store and find one that threaded adapter doo-dad will fit into.

No, my water pump is brand new and was just painted. The problem is that none of the brackets that were previously holding my steering pump on were intended to be used with each other (one of them isn't even a steering pump bracket) nor were they designed to work with my water pump (or the water pump I just replaced that was identical).

I need the 3 piece steering pump brackets for an early or mid 70s model. Two of the 3 pieces are shown on the left and right side of the pump in captainfab's last post. The 3rd piece is the little corner bracket that mounts to the manifold, which isn't shown in captain's post. I also need a new or reman'd steering pump that will fit those brackets, and will accept the threaded adapter with the o-ring in my last post, so my existing hose will fit.

[andyh1956]

That goofy bracket you have bolted to the head in pik 4 I never seen before, but the dog leg bracket bolted to it is for an A/c compressor setup. That fitting in the back of your pump is prolly a JIC, 37 deg, a std flare is 45 deg. that whole valve can be swapped out. Some will make more pressure than others. I have piks of what I have, will try to get them posted. I have a complete late 70s van across the road in the woods & when I went to check on it I was assaulted by a whole platoon of red wasps! I only got stung once, I'm still pretty quick for 60!

[Rust-O-Matic]

Oh man, I hate wasps! I do battle with them a couple times a year in and around my barn. This year we are dealing with a lot of black snakes as well. They're not really a nuisance... unless I find them in my dining room. The last one I caught in the cellar was just shy of 6' long. But, I digress.

When you say "that whole valve can be swapped out", what exactly are we talking about? Is that threaded piece I pulled out of the rear of the pump some sort of valve? Bear with me, power steering pumps obviously aren't my strong suit.

[andyh1956]

OK here's what I got
Family portrait

this pump has a cast bracket that bolts to the block with a stamped one right behind it. For short pump

This one swings on cyl head stud & adjusts on the water pump & also adjusts to the bracket that goes to the motor mount & ex manifold.

this one looks like it would work with your pump & you can see how the adjusting bracket sweeps to the motor mount & ex manifold

this is a sb short pump

I think this is a big block short pump. The block mounting bracket bolt holes are 7/16" & spread farther apart than the others.

I had another pik of a s/b short pump with all the brackets but it didn't load for some reason. This is only from ONE box of stuff! I got gobs of this stuff but it got dark & besides my shoulder hurts where I was stung!
OK here it is. Prolly for a 283

[Rust-O-Matic]

Man that's a pretty good collection of pumps you've got there. Its kinda cool to see all the variations.

The bracket in your third pic is very similar to what I currently have. And just in case I haven't already said so, I have the long water pump.

Picture #4 has the right kind of lower cradle piece, but I'm not familiar with the bracket on the other side or exactly what it attaches to.

Pic #7 is also kinda similar to what I think I'm looking for, but not quite. The cradle looks different. Like it may mount to the block rather than the water pump.

I found the attached pic on google. I believe this is what I need.

[andyh1956]

Yes that whole assy that you removed from the pump is where the pressure comes from. Back in the day of 15 x 38 monster mudders I used to take those valves from big Buicks & Caddys & install them into my pumps to turn those big tires better.
I don' see why you couldn't put your bracket right up to the pump, slide a bolt thru it & put a nut on the back side & make that much work. Then you need the pivot stud in the head. What kinda motor mounts do you have? If you are using clam shells then the adjusting bracket I have won't work. But if you're using the old style with the one bolt from the bottom then my plan may work with one of the adjusters I found so far.

[andyh1956]

[QUOTE=Rust-O-Matic;7623394]

Picture #4 has the right kind of lower cradle piece, but I'm not familiar with the bracket on the other side or exactly what it attaches to.

The top hole goes to the front bolt in the driver's ex manifold. The lower hole goes to the upper front bolt on the drivers old style motor mount.

[Rust-O-Matic]

Yeah I wondered the same thing about just putting a longer bolt thought the water pump hole with a nut on the back. A couple guys have told me that won't work, but I don't see any reason that wouldn't unless the water pump hole is not in the same location as it would be if it had the correct threaded hole. I may give this a whirl just to see. Although, I would still need to find the correct corner/manifold bracket to attach it correctly attach the other side.

I'm not sure what kind of motor mounts I have. The stands bolted to the frame appear to be original to the truck, but I don't know about the mounts between the stands and the engine. I'll try to get a pic this evening.