Supercharger for my Apache

[diceman50]

Originally Posted by joedoh

your attention to detail is staggering, my guess is you are a QI or some type of manufacturing inspector.

I love the old school feeling of this mod too.

Thanks Joe,

I don't know what a QI is but I'm pretty sure I'm not one or an inspector. Actually I am a high school drop out and have had many "professions" in my life. I worked at service stations, truck stops, a lumber yard, and a chassis shop building drag cars. I also owned a tool store for 20 years. That's where I got all the tools. The most interesting jobs I ever had were as a surgical assistant and as the Chaparral Specialist for The Petroleum Museum. I guess any skills that I have came in part from all of these different professions. It's always a good day when you learn something new.

[Z10]

Well he may not be a Quality Inspector, but he's certainly talented and a great friend.

[joedoh]

chaparral! my favorite was the one with the vacuum on the bottom, I always used it as an example with new guys to teach them to think LATERALLY about problem solving and look for an unorthodox solution. on the sides of the path to solving a problem, I tell them, are usually found the most interesting approaches.

yes QI is a quality inspector, I have known more than a few and they can be frighteningly and frustratingly accurate, so know that you could probably ace that career too.

kudos to your learning!

[Z10]

Originally Posted by joedoh

chaparral! my favorite was the one with the vacuum on the bottom, I always used it as an example with new guys to teach them to think LATERALLY about problem solving and look for an unorthodox solution. on the sides of the path to solving a problem, I tell them, are usually found the most interesting approaches.

yes QI is a quality inspector, I have known more than a few and they can be frighteningly and frustratingly accurate, so know that you could probably ace that career too.

kudos to your learning!

Here's DiceMan with the 2J https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZkUr5cG6wE

And one of the car at speed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWzUsW18k3c

[ptc]

Is that Johnny Rutherford you are standing there talking with ---- seems like a great time being had ????



Wow the Chapparrel days... that brings back some great memories of CAN-AM racing for me hanging out at Laguna Seca Raceway during the Mark Donahue times with the Penske/Sunoco Porsche 917-30. What a beast of car!!!! Man those were the great days of racing and racing drivers too.

[diceman50]

Originally Posted by ptc

Is that Johnny Rutherford you are standing there talking with ---- seems like a great time being had ????



Wow the Chapparrel days... that brings back some great memories of CAN-AM racing for me hanging out at Laguna Seca Raceway during the Mark Donahue times with the Penske/Sunoco Porsche 917-30. What a beast of car!!!! Man those were the great days of racing and racing drivers too.

Yes that is Johnny Rutherford and Jim Hall in the cowboy hat. The car is the Chaparral 2K that Johnny won the Indy 500 with in 1980. The Commemorative Air Force (formally known as the Confederate Air Force) invited us to bring the car to their annual air show in 2010 and drive it for the crowd. It was a lot of fun. Johnny Rutherford is a great guy and a lot of fun to hang out with.

Speaking of great guys here is a picture of Z10, Ed Welburn, Jim Hall, Joe Mabee, and myself preparing the Chaparral 2H to be driven by Ed. Ed Welburn is the great guy I was talking about. (not Z10) Ed treated us all to lunch after the run and the conversation between him and Jim Hall was one of the most interesting I have ever been privy to.

I was very fortunate during my Chaparral time to meet many famous people. I traveled all over the country with the cars when they went to various events and to England twice for Goodwood. I can't believe they paid me for that.

[ptc]

Yea that is great stuff.... I would have jumped into any one of those cars given the opportunity to 'take a run'.... I loved road racing when I did it.

I'm hoping I may be able to get a top fuel drag car 1/4 mile run before my "turn is up".... thats about the only thing I haven't ever driven!

[Advanced Design]

Dice, you've certainly had an interesting and diverse career!

Progress is looking good. Why does EE want to run naturally aspirated for a bit? I am guessing to set up a good base tune for the new engine? Then once that is right on, you can then begin to compensate for the supercharger?

I've mentioned before you guys make a good team.

[diceman50]

Originally Posted by Advanced Design

Dice, you've certainly had an interesting and diverse career!

Progress is looking good. Why does EE want to run naturally aspirated for a bit? I am guessing to set up a good base tune for the new engine? Then once that is right on, you can then begin to compensate for the supercharger?

I've mentioned before you guys make a good team.

You got it A/D. He doesn't want to add too many variables at once. Since we are changing the operating system from a 1 bar to a 2 bar he wants to make sure it is running OK in the 1 bar range first. There will be several changes to deal with without the supercharger. Larger displacement, bigger cam, and higher compression. Once those are dialed in we will put a little wind to it.

[Average Joe]

I like your style. This is a very cool combo. I especially like the before testing, and am interested in the results when you get done.
You and your friends are very talented!

[diceman50]

Not much progress lately. I have been working on another project.

[Advanced Design]

Love it, perfect end for a pallet!

Originally Posted by diceman50

Not much progress lately. I have been working on another projecT.

[RockinKees]

Haha, you nailed it!!

The pallet I mean

[diceman50]

I finally got all the fittings in for my oil lines. I am using push lock hose and fittings and they can be very difficult to install, so I decided to post some pictures and a demo video of a tool I made to make the installation easier. If you are planning on installing any of the aftermarket EFI systems (i.e. FAST, Atomic, FiTech, etc.) you are probably going to be using them.










https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkUt...m-upload_owner

[Advanced Design]

Great solution! Friend was doing this the other night and made a tool though yours is more elegant. And way less expensive than the one from Khoul tools.

What is inserted in the fitting and what does the end of the tool used on the 90 look like?

Cool my jets, it will probably be in the video....

[diceman50]

Originally Posted by Advanced Design

Great solution! Friend was doing this the other night and made a tool though yours is more elegant. And way less expensive than the one from Khoul tools.

What is inserted in the fitting and what does the end of the tool used on the 90 look like?

Cool my jets, it will probably be in the video....

Thanks,

When I am doing a straight fitting I screw a male adapter into the fitting to protect the female threads of the fitting. As you probably know it takes a tremendous amount of pressure to install these things. The 90 degree attachment is a flat plate with a "U" shaped cut out. All of the fittings I have seen have a collar on them to push against. The fitting I was doing in the video is a -8. When I do smaller 90 degree fittings I cut a notch in a heavy washer and insert it in front of the fork. It would probably be better to make a fork for each size. Sometimes I need three hands to hold everything in place. I usually put some tape on the fork to protect the fitting.

[Advanced Design]

Nice set up Dice. Thanks for the details. The video didn't have sound when I viewed it.

[diceman50]

My friend Pete who did the machine work on my engine recommends Comp Cams Break-In Oil Additive which I have used before. I have always premixed it with the oil before I put it in the engine because I was afraid it would sink to the bottom of the pan where it might or might not get picked up by the oil pump. I guess it would depend on how much space is under the oil pickup. I guess this fear goes back to my days working in a service station as a teenager. Back then STP was a popular product and we added it to many of our oil changes. I was instructed to add it only when the engine was running because if the engine wasn't running it would go to the bottom of the pan and sit there. As I was preparing to prime the oil system on the 261 I decided to test my theory. I poured some oil in a plastic measuring container and then poured in some of the additive. As I feared it sank straight to the bottom. This may or may not be a problem but, it is simple enough to mix it beforehand. Good news is it seems to stay in suspension once it is mixed up.

[diceman50]

Well I finally got everything ready to start my new engine. I called Z10 and EE to help me monitor everything and shoot some video. Only a couple of minor issues. The supercharger is leaking oil (probably a pinched "O" ring) and the throttle bodies need to be synchronized and the throttle blades need to be set for minimum idle. Attached is an edited 12 minute video. Total run time of the engine was 18 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rou8...m-upload_owner

[Advanced Design]

Sounds good and I like the whine...plus the open garage door.

What software is EE using on the laptop?

[Average Joe]

Engine sounds great. Thanks for the tip on pre-mixing the addative. I always add it between quarts when filling, but I will pre-mix now!

[diceman50]

Originally Posted by Advanced Design

Sounds good and I like the whine...plus the open garage door.

What software is EE using on the laptop?

Thanks guys!!

Yes we have had beautiful weather here for the last few days. It was 65 degrees when we did that video.

EE wrote his own tuning software. Did I mention that he is a genius.

We tore down the supercharger and found a broken sealing ring on the output shaft. Guess I got a little heavy handed when I put it together. I happened to have a spare so hopefully that issue is resolved.



We also balanced the throttle bodies and set the IAC base idle air. Video attached.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQHA...ature=youtu.be

We also drove the truck about 50 miles. Ran great, EE did some data logs so he can fine tune the VE tables but he thinks it's pretty close now. However the truck did develop an oil leak in the front. Guess the timing cover is coming off. Dammit!

[ptc]

Sounds really good...!!!! I dont think you are gonna be sneakin up on anybody with the supercharger whine! ---

Are you going to run hard pipe when you get it all connected up to the carbs?

[diceman50]

Originally Posted by ptc

Sounds really good...!!!! I dont think you are gonna be sneakin up on anybody with the supercharger whine! ---

Are you going to run hard pipe when you get it all connected up to the carbs?

Thanks ptc, I haven't worked out the supercharger to plenum plumbing just yet. It will probably be some combination of aluminum tube and rubber connectors. I have a plenum already built, but EE doesn't like it. He wants to hide the idle air motor inside the plenum like we did on the air cleaner. After thinking it over I have decided he is right. Unfortunately, this will require a new plenum design. Probably something with a bolt on top. This may delay the finish of the project, but it's better to get it done right instead of faster.

[ptc]

Originally Posted by diceman50

Thanks ptc, I haven't worked out the supercharger to plenum plumbing just yet. It will probably be some combination of aluminum tube and rubber connectors. I have a plenum already built, but EE doesn't like it. He wants to hide the idle air motor inside the plenum like we did on the air cleaner. After thinking it over I have decided he is right. Unfortunately, this will require a new plenum design. Probably something with a bolt on top. This may delay the finish of the project, but it's better to get it done right instead of faster.

Yep thats the way! --- I may do the same on mine. Some type of sheetmetal (alum) intake system that emulates an EFI plenum look but just covers the entire carb with the input end like a throttle body. I like that look.